Pouncey to RG? Jordan to SLB/DE? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Pouncey to RG? Jordan to SLB/DE?

futurescout said:
It's very simple. HE WILL BE A BETTER PLAYER AT GUARD
Click to expand...

I don't know about better but he would certainly be excellent. And I think there are free agent centers out there who would not be very good guards -- at least, not as good as Pouncey -- and if you're looking to replace both guards like we are you should be flexible enough to consider this kind of solution.
 
TheWalrus said:
As a SOLB he isn't one of our best players on the field. Misi takes on fullbacks and tight ends and is better against the pass (not rushing, but in coverage) and the run right now.

245 lbs isn't the barrier. It's his technique and his strength (getting that shoulder right especially). Wake isn't that much heavier and Taylor played basically his whole career at that weight.

I don't care much for Vernon as a pass rusher, to be honest. He's a nice hustle player, but not an edge pass rusher. If you actually looking to replace Misi, you could do worse than having Vernon drop some weight and do it. Right now Vernon does his best work against guards and on second effort plays.
Click to expand...

Wake is 258, but he is 6'3. Jordan is almost 6'7. Jordnan would have to be about 270 to have the same build as Wake at his height. But torn labrum's are a b***h. I tore mine and dislocated my shoulder in November and I'm not fully cleared to lift for another month.
 
TheWalrus said:
As a SOLB he isn't one of our best players on the field. Misi takes on fullbacks and tight ends and is better against the pass (not rushing, but in coverage) and the run right now.

245 lbs isn't the barrier. It's his technique and his strength (getting that shoulder right especially). Wake isn't that much heavier and Taylor played basically his whole career at that weight.

I don't care much for Vernon as a pass rusher, to be honest. He's a nice hustle player, but not an edge pass rusher. If you actually looking to replace Misi, you could do worse than having Vernon drop some weight and do it. Right now Vernon does his best work against guards and on second effort plays.
Click to expand...

245 lbs as a de is an issue...at 6 ft 6 plus it is an absolute issue...not just technique and strength...he needs lead in the pencil...
 
hooshoops said:
245 lbs as a de is an issue...at 6 ft 6 plus it is an absolute issue...not just technique and strength...he needs lead in the pencil...
Click to expand...

he needs to be at least 265 before he starts getting playing time in base defense
 
Is it really that tough to find/draft a serviceable guard or two? I guess maybe it is, since Miami doesn't have any, haha!
But I'd rather keep our probowl center where he is, especially since he's got 2 years snapping for Tannehill now.
 
futurescout said:
he needs to be at least 265 before he starts getting playing time in base defense
Click to expand...

Hard targets like that are a waste of time, imo. The weight is just a means to an end (no pun intended). He needs to get better against the run, no doubt. And he should be sleeping on a waterbed made of Creatine and doing whatever he needs to do to get bigger (not that it ever worked for JT. He always in the 240s by the end of the year). But if you're playing him as a lb why are you having him gain the weight? It wouldn't be right for being an OLB.

One of the most important aspects of player development is having a clear vision for the player. Not moving them around, but having a vision and sticking to it. My vision for Jordan is as an end. I'm not doing anything to detract from that vision by having him work on pattern matching coverages and his zone drops and press technique. That time is better spent learning how to stack and shed left tackles and dump truck quarterbacks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
if your vision for jordan is a 43 de then he needs to put on weight...bottom line...unless you are ok with a passing down rusher only

weight hand use inside counter and ball get off...
 
phinfan33 said:
I could've swore Pouncey was a LG at Florida.
Click to expand...

Pouncey played LG and RG at UF. He eventuality settle at RG before taking over OC his senior season. If you watch pouncey closely he natural favors the right side and will drift right. Hes had to be coached to look left and right.

right now, I'd put him a LG, find a cheap FA OC and see if Dallas Thomas is worth anything. If Thomas is okay then move Pouncey to RG, Thomas to LG and ride with vet at OC.
 
Ironic thread because I watched the second Jets game last night and those were the two guys I focused on. I agree with futurescout in that I don't see Pouncey as a premier center. He has nowhere near the powerful explosion of Dwight Stephenson, nor the tenacity of Jim Langer. Nice player who is overhyped around here largely because he compares favorably to the majority of Ireland's picks.

We could really use a rugged nasty type at center like Mawae to free Pouncey to use his athleticism at guard. The guy I wanted in the draft last year, Brian Schwenke, could have filled that bill nicely. He can also play guard or center. If your most athletic guy is at guard he can drift to help out with struggling tackles.

The best thing I can say about Dion Jordan is that he never quits out there and chases the play to its finish, unlike many of our defenders. His special teams background undoubtedly contributes to that. Otherwise, Jordan is not close to competent defensive end level right now. He's stunningly slow off the snap, to the point the tackle is already backpeddling and looking at Jordan as if to ask if he's actually going to do something. It's like a chess player frustrated that his opponent is frozen and won't make a move. Late in the year Jordan seemingly understood he needed a greater variety of moves. But his solution was ridiculous. He started swinging both arms side to side as if juking the tackle. That led to being stuck in space instead of utilizing his great asset of length per stride.

At Oregon I liked Jordan better on the left side. I really think he's more natural there and uses leverage better on that side, even if it's Wake's position. Jordan doesn't display any ability to vary his rush technique on the right side. Looping up the middle he's okay when he starts outside from a cover position and then is sent on an interior blitz, other than he somehow keeps his hands at Sugar Ray Leonard level instead of high and extended.

Tons of work required with that guy. If he were on any other team I certainly wouldn't be scared of him.
 
I still think they have the Cam Wake plan going on with Jordan.. First year he comes in and is only in on pass plays, half downs, the next year he adds more weight and takes a spot opposite our main pass rusher. I think they are going to tell him to bulk up this offseason. If anyone is moving positions it'd be Vernon before Jordan. He's undersized.

BUT I think when it's all said and done Vernon and Jordan will be competing for the spot opposite Wake next year.
 
when nate garner comes in at center, and you dont notice a significant dropoff from pouncey.. than you have your answer as to whether or not pouncey is the best center in the league.


pouncey at guard would help this team tremendously.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Ironic thread because I watched the second Jets game last night and those were the two guys I focused on. I agree with futurescout in that I don't see Pouncey as a premier center. He has nowhere near the powerful explosion of Dwight Stephenson, nor the tenacity of Jim Langer. Nice player who is overhyped around here largely because he compares favorably to the majority of Ireland's picks.

We could really use a rugged nasty type at center like Mawae to free Pouncey to use his athleticism at guard. The guy I wanted in the draft last year, Brian Schwenke, could have filled that bill nicely. He can also play guard or center. If your most athletic guy is at guard he can drift to help out with struggling tackles.

The best thing I can say about Dion Jordan is that he never quits out there and chases the play to its finish, unlike many of our defenders. His special teams background undoubtedly contributes to that. Otherwise, Jordan is not close to competent defensive end level right now. He's stunningly slow off the snap, to the point the tackle is already backpeddling and looking at Jordan as if to ask if he's actually going to do something. It's like a chess player frustrated that his opponent is frozen and won't make a move. Late in the year Jordan seemingly understood he needed a greater variety of moves. But his solution was ridiculous. He started swinging both arms side to side as if juking the tackle. That led to being stuck in space instead of utilizing his great asset of length per stride.

At Oregon I liked Jordan better on the left side. I really think he's more natural there and uses leverage better on that side, even if it's Wake's position. Jordan doesn't display any ability to vary his rush technique on the right side. Looping up the middle he's okay when he starts outside from a cover position and then is sent on an interior blitz, other than he somehow keeps his hands at Sugar Ray Leonard level instead of high and extended.

Tons of work required with that guy. If he were on any other team I certainly wouldn't be scared of him.
Click to expand...

Note the bolded part, given the crap (er inexperienced) the Phins will no doubt have at both OT positions, having guards that help the tackles is huge.
Great OL know almost instinctively when and how much to double team and when to peel and go head hunting. I saw none of that last year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom