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Pro Football Focus question

Tannenballs said:
Exactly. The main one I talked to, wasn't familiar with it, but his son is in the NFL and he has coached in every league you can imagine (NFL, ACC, CFL, NFL Europe, XFL). I told him about them saying Tom Brady wasn't a top 5 quarterback anymore and he about **** his pants. I just think it could be done with people who actually know what they are talking about and wanted to spit ball with people on here. Because some agents use it to go into contract negotiations, some players use it, some teams use it, and everyone in the media uses it, and like you mentioned fans eat that **** up. It could just be done so much better. And they completely neglect college football aside from the National Championship game, and the Senior Bowl.
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I completely agree that if you can do better (i.e. put up a better quality product at a competitive price), you should go for it - there is definitely a market there for this stuff. But I don't think it will be easy - that is a lot of tape to watch and a lot of players to grade. I also don't think the quality gap between what a pro scout might bring to the ratings vs. the knowledgeable fan would be easy to demonstrate either. E.g. if PFF grades Tom Brady at +4.8 for a game, while a pro scout grades him at +3.1, unless I see all the commentary behind the ratings, how would I know which grade is the better quality one? That is, unless I take your word that you have a pro scout grading every player on every play and he's paying just as much attention as the PFF analyst...
 
Tannenballs said:
Exactly my point. They try to assign people to break down an ENTIRE game. They may be a decent evaluator at some positions but not have a clue about offensive line play. But if you were to take people to simply evaluate offensive lineman throughout the league, that's totally different. And you would be surprised how many ex coaches there are. What do you think happens to them once they get fired or they retire?
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Phinatic8u said:
:lol:

If you think PFF is some great service just because they grade the players a positive or negative on a play then I can't help you.

Marvin Lewis is right, they dont know what football is. Every play has a different set of responsibilities for each player that you can't tell by watching the game.
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1000s of subscribers, almost everyone in the NFL media, and even some nfl teams, use it.

And I've yet to see ONE person prove them wrong. People can't continue to talk crap about it if They refuse to disprove it, amd have no real evidence as to why PFF isn't a useful service.

Seriously show me one person who has proved why ANY of there grades are undeserved. You can't find anyone. You don't find that suspicious?
 
xXwarXx said:
1000s of subscribers, almost everyone in the NFL media, and even some nfl teams, use it.

And I've yet to see ONE person prove them wrong. People can't continue to talk crap about it if They refuse to disprove it, amd have no real evidence as to why PFF isn't a useful service.

Seriously show me one person who has proved why ANY of there grades are undeserved. You can't find anyone. You don't find that suspicious?
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So I'm supposed to just go with the American people? I forgot where some advanced people who are all intelligent.

OK, explain there rankings to me since I obviously have no idea what they do.
 
GasPed said:
I completely agree that if you can do better (i.e. put up a better quality product at a competitive price), you should go for it - there is definitely a market there for this stuff. But I don't think it will be easy - that is a lot of tape to watch and a lot of players to grade. I also don't think the quality gap between what a pro scout might bring to the ratings vs. the knowledgeable fan would be easy to demonstrate either. E.g. if PFF grades Tom Brady at +4.8 for a game, while a pro scout grades him at +3.1, unless I see all the commentary behind the ratings, how would I know which grade is the better quality one? That is, unless I take your word that you have a pro scout grading every player on every play and he's paying just as much attention as the PFF analyst...
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You assign each of these positions that have extensive experience at the collegiate or pro level for their respective positions and include bios similar to what you can see on any roster for a NFL or College team.

QB
RB (+FB)
WR
TE
OL
DL (including 3-4 OLB)
LB
DB
Special Teams

You have them each responsible for grading the games during each week. PFF states on their site that only 3 people do the grading.
 
well I definitely don't agree that PFF is some kind of expert rating system, its always interesting to see someone else's perspective. Its always good for debate, I just don't like when people try to use it as definitive evidence that a player is doing good or bad.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------
Tannenballs said:
You assign each of these positions that have extensive experience at the collegiate or pro level for their respective positions and include bios similar to what you can see on any roster for a NFL or College team.

QB
RB (+FB)
WR
TE
OL
DL (including 3-4 OLB)
LB
DB
Special Teams

You have them each responsible for grading the games during each week. PFF states on their site that only 3 people do the grading.
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While good in theory Im not sure PFF could afford to pay guys with this type of experience.
Im pretty sure coaching pays the bills better
 
dlockz said:
well I definitely don't agree that PFF is some kind of expert rating system, its always interesting to see someone else's perspective. Its always good for debate, I just don't like when people try to use it as definitive evidence that a player is doing good or bad.
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Right. It's an evaluation tool, within a particular context framework, using practical norms and situational weighting. It's not the end-all beat-all tool, but if you couple it with other context that isn't taken into account, you can understand and mostly agree with the ratings.

They're not always 100% dead-on, but the have an internal QC system in place that removes certain errors and incorrect ratings, so it's probably one of the better NFL-wide analysis tools going. Are there any other sites like it that are considered more reliable?
 
PhinFan1968 said:
Right. It's an evaluation tool, within a particular context framework, using practical norms and situational weighting. It's not the end-all beat-all tool, but if you couple it with other context that isn't taken into account, you can understand and mostly agree with the ratings.

They're not always 100% dead-on, but the have an internal QC system in place that removes certain errors and incorrect ratings, so it's probably one of the better NFL-wide analysis tools going. Are there any other sites like it that are considered more reliable?
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Im not sure I really don't focus too much on these type of evaluations but like I said they are great for debate no matter how flawed.
 
dlockz said:
While good in theory Im not sure PFF could afford to pay guys with this type of experience.
Im pretty sure coaching pays the bills better
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This. PFF charges $27/yr. That's not a lot of money, but you still probably need a minimum 5,000 people to sign-up for that in order to pay for the 3 "armchair" analysts and the infrastructure. In order to get enough revenue to pay for 10 "professional" analysts - well, you can do the math. Maybe not impossible, but definitely not easy.
 
Here's my thing. If it were so easy and reasonably profitable to do, why hasn't anybody else done it?

I wouldn't doubt there's a think tank or two throwing together a plan for a type of site like this that may be better, but it hasn't hit the street yet.
 
I like pff and what they bring.

There not the gospel and they are just fans who dont know the responsibilities of every play.
 
Would also do some draft coverage which PFF fails to do. Nothing crazy but rankings and scouting reports on the top 10 or so players at their positions and one mock draft.
 
Tannenballs said:
Would also do some draft coverage which PFF fails to do. Nothing crazy but rankings and scouting reports on the top 10 or so players at their positions and one mock draft.
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Well you should try to make it happen although its a dog eat dog world in the .com industry and bills have to be paid. Many a good site has went under. I have actually thought about investing in such a thing a while back but after research felt there were other investments that seemed like better ideas.
 
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