Problems with the draft/player rankings

Agent51

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You know what pisses me of about the drafts and "player rankings" is that ALL of it is pretty much based on ONE DAY, the combine. That, to me, is RIDICULOUS. People have bad days, NOBODY is simply stunning 365 days a year. If you are a NFL hopeful and your bad day happens to fall on the combine day, you're basically screwed, you can, in theory, go from round 1 to undrafted based on ONE DAY's workouts. I personally think player stock and rankings should be based on their college CAREER, with the workouts at the Combine and Pro Days factored in but not bearing the majority of their ranking. Take Benson for example. BEFORE the combine he was HANDS DOWN the top rated back, no question about it. Then Ronnie has a great workout and he shoots to the top, WHEN BENSON DIDN'T EVEN WORKOUT. I know people will say "well, he shoulda attended the combine" etc etc, but thats not my point. My point is suddenly Ronnie Brown (not to take anythign away from him, he is a great back) is the #1 RB and #1 PLAYER (or top 5 anyway) on EVERYONE'S boards because he had a great wourkout, and nobody even SAW Benson's workouts yet. This Ronnie Brown rise and Cedric Benson fall happened even BEFORE Benson did his Pro Day. I just think it's absolute BS that a guy (Benson) can have an amazing career all through college and be the unchallenged #1 RB and then a good workout for another player and bad one for him drops his stock to the 2nd or 3rd best RB (depending on what boards you look at). In a game you don't run a straight ahead 40yd dash, in a game you don't stand perfectly still and jump as high or long as you can, in a game you don't lay on a bench and lift some weights, so why do THOSE attributes hold more weight it seems than their ACTUAL play IN GAMES???? BS, pure BS.
 

Joey 22

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Agent51 said:
You know what pisses me of about the drafts and "player rankings" is that ALL of it is pretty much based on ONE DAY, the combine. That, to me, is RIDICULOUS. People have bad days, NOBODY is simply stunning 365 days a year. If you are a NFL hopeful and your bad day happens to fall on the combine day, you're basically screwed, you can, in theory, go from round 1 to undrafted based on ONE DAY's workouts. I personally think player stock and rankings should be based on their college CAREER, with the workouts at the Combine and Pro Days factored in but not bearing the majority of their ranking. Take Benson for example. BEFORE the combine he was HANDS DOWN the top rated back, no question about it. Then Ronnie has a great workout and he shoots to the top, WHEN BENSON DIDN'T EVEN WORKOUT. I know people will say "well, he shoulda attended the combine" etc etc, but thats not my point. My point is suddenly Ronnie Brown (not to take anythign away from him, he is a great back) is the #1 RB and #1 PLAYER (or top 5 anyway) on EVERYONE'S boards because he had a great wourkout, and nobody even SAW Benson's workouts yet. This Ronnie Brown rise and Cedric Benson fall happened even BEFORE Benson did his Pro Day. I just think it's absolute BS that a guy (Benson) can have an amazing career all through college and be the unchallenged #1 RB and then a good workout for another player and bad one for him drops his stock to the 2nd or 3rd best RB (depending on what boards you look at). In a game you don't run a straight ahead 40yd dash, in a game you don't stand perfectly still and jump as high or long as you can, in a game you don't lay on a bench and lift some weights, so why do THOSE attributes hold more weight it seems than their ACTUAL play IN GAMES???? BS, pure BS.
Did you ever saw RB play? He had better YPC than Benson, and that is saying something.
 

finsnchips

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Joey 22 said:
Did you ever saw RB play? He had better YPC than Benson, and that is saying something.
experts look at the combine. the fans are wowed by combine numbers.

personnel people are not so 'gullable'. Their jobs depend on these decisions. Look at Spielman... do you think we're ever going to let him forget that we gave up a fourth to move up to get Carey?? Even if he turns out to be a Pro Bowler, it was a bad move. With Udeze, Wilfork and Carey on the board, there was no need to move up and get him.
 

finfan54

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Your just pissed off cus your guy is supposedly dropping (which may not be true). Caddy had a great combine and nobody gave him cudos on this board. Its been all about Ronnie Brown. Why? Cus he was showcased and supposedly, he is the best all around.............ok.......so it he was best all around, then why wasnt he starting or playing full time? As far as I knew, Emmitt Smith or Edgerring James were not being touted for their blocking abilities yet all you hear is that Brown is great at everything while Caddy is just second hand scrubbness. It blows my mind that people just ride the popular vote to the bank.
 

Agent51

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Joey 22 said:
Did you ever saw RB play? He had better YPC than Benson, and that is saying something.
Did YOU ever see him play? He played HALF AS MUCH as Benson, of COURSE his average would be higher.
 

t2thejz

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Agent51 said:
Did YOU ever see him play? He played HALF AS MUCH as Benson, of COURSE his average would be higher.
Thats not true..Ronnie was on the field almost every play
 

Agent51

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finfan54 said:
Your just pissed off cus your guy is supposedly dropping (which may not be true). Caddy had a great combine and nobody gave him cudos on this board. Its been all about Ronnie Brown. Why? Cus he was showcased and supposedly, he is the best all around.............ok.......so it he was best all around, then why wasnt he starting or playing full time? As far as I knew, Emmitt Smith or Edgerring James were not being touted for their blocking abilities yet all you hear is that Brown is great at everything while Caddy is just second hand scrubbness. It blows my mind that people just ride the popular vote to the bank.
I'm confused, who are you talking to, me? haha? It SOUNDS like the reply was meant for me (based on your first line) but then it goes on to dispute Ronnie Brown and talk about "riding the popular vote", which I most certainly do not since I am prolly the BIGGEST advocate of Benson over Brown, so I'm confused.
 

Agent51

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t2thejz said:
Thats not true..Ronnie was on the field almost every play
being on the field doesn't mean you touch the ball everytime, you don't boost your YPC by just BEING on the field, I should have worded it "he got half as many CARRIES as Benson" cuz that's what I meant. Look at his career stats, Benson carried 25-30 times a game, Brown carried an average of 14, which is HALF as much.
 

t2thejz

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Agent51 said:
being on the field doesn't mean you touch the ball everytime, you don't boost your YPC by just BEING on the field, I should have worded it "he got half as many CARRIES as Benson" cuz that's what I meant. Look at his career stats, Benson carried 25-30 times a game, Brown carried an average of 14, which is HALF as much.
Maybe thats a good thing...less wear and tear
 

Agent51

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t2thejz said:
Maybe thats a good thing...less wear and tear
No, it's a bad thing. Benson got a LITTLE more work than most full time RBs, but not some crazy amount that means he's used up. Brown/Williams on the other hand have ALWAYS split time, which is BAD when moving to the NFL to be a feature back because the season is already longer, the level of competition is greatley elevated, AND they have to be tossed into full time play. Their abilities will allow them to be good, if not great, running backs, but their bodies may not gievn the jump from 12 or 13 games SPLITTING time in COLLEGE to 16 (or more come post season) games FULL time in the NFL
 

Joey 22

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t2thejz said:
Thats not true..Ronnie was on the field almost every play
Thats true, either at FB, RB, Slot WR. When having 2 TOP 5 players in your team you cant sit either, RB was versatile, while Caddie wasnt, thats why Caddie had a little more carries, he couldnt do anything but carrying the ball.

Really did you ever saw RB play? I did and I liked him, just as much as I liked Caddie, or Benson. If you ask me what I dont like about RB is his age, and that the things he does best, can thought while Caddys elusiveness and agility cant be thought. Benson is a little more average he isnt such a rare talented as the other 2 guys.
 

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Brown only inched forward a little bit, while it was Benson who slipped big time. He did it to himself by choosing to not work out at the Senior Bowl, or the Combine. A lot of UM players have done the same thing, but when they had their pro day workout, most of the shined enough to stand pat, or at least not fall. Benson's workout at the Texas pro day workout was not good at all. If the track was slow he should not have done work there. He also hurt himself in his last game, which hurt or not, was bad from his supposed standards, while on the other hand, Brown had an excellent last game (bowl games).

A lot of people on this site may have jumped on the Brown wagon, but not most draft sites. They already had him ranked right with Benson and Caddy way before the season ended. I watched a lot of Auburn Football this year, and Brown should be ranked right up there with the other two.

If you have watched any of these three backs IMO, you should be happy with any one of them. Liking Benson more is great, I would be more than happy with him. Saban should have no problem knowing who to take over who. His first couple of drafts should be pretty darn good because he knows most of the star players. He either played against them or recruited them.
 

Agent51

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Ozzy said:
Brown only inched forward a little bit, while it was Benson who slipped big time. He did it to himself by choosing to not work out at the Senior Bowl, or the Combine. A lot of UM players have done the same thing, but when they had their pro day workout, most of the shined enough to stand pat, or at least not fall. Benson's workout at the Texas pro day workout was not good at all. If the track was slow he should not have done work there. He also hurt himself in his last game, which hurt or not, was bad from his supposed standards, while on the other hand, Brown had an excellent last game (bowl games).

A lot of people on this site may have jumped on the Brown wagon, but not most draft sites. They already had him ranked right with Benson and Caddy way before the season ended. I watched a lot of Auburn Football this year, and Brown should be ranked right up there with the other two.

If you have watched any of these three backs IMO, you should be happy with any one of them. Liking Benson more is great, I would be more than happy with him. Saban should have no problem knowing who to take over who. His first couple of drafts should be pretty darn good because he knows most of the star players. He either played against them or recruited them.
Woa, I'm not taking away ANYTHING form the other two, nor was I implying that Brown was way low before the combine, My main thing was the fact that the combine and workouts weigh so much when ONE DAY of running, jumping, and lifting weights HARDLY can sum up your IN GAME performance of your career to that point. I simply used Brown and Benson's situation because it is the most notable rise/fall situation of the draft. You proved my point by saying Benson did it to himself by not working out anywhere else and having a bad pro day. Look HOW BAD he slipped, just from that ONE day, it's ridiculous.

*added in edit* and I WILL be happy with any of the three, they are all outstanding backs, and I LIKE them all, but Benson is my absolute favorite, so I am obviously pulling for him
 

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People do get wowed by the Combine. But that's the acceptable face of the draft process that we see. What we don't see are all the other myriad of things that go into the process, which we will never see or hear about which makes us all scratch our heads sometimes when a name gets selected.

I admit that it seems too much is put into what kids do in shorts and sweatpants, but there is a lot more to the draft process after the season than just the Combine.
 
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