Questionable moves

[Steve S]

This post is actually pretty poorly thought out. First, we signed Howard because we weren't sure Madison would restructure, and he could've been cut outright.

So you advocate signing a player for fairly significant money b/c you can't get another player to restructure?
Talk about poorly thought out.

Second, Howard counted only 1.2 million against the cap last year, which is what Terrell Buckley wanted anyway. Developing a young CB who can step into a starting role if Madison hadn't signed and paying him what you would've paid his predecessor (who was much older) isn't too bad a deal.

Plus, Howard's contract is like McIntosh's -- it's backloaded with no guaranteed money, so Howard could be cut at some point without much cap ramification.


That's all very well thought out on your part- only problem is that it is totally wrong and off base. Howard got a signing bonus. That's your first mistake.

Howard's contract and signing bonus are not insignificant enough for him to be easily cut.

There was also no indication that Howard was a good replacement for any of our corners much less a starting one.

 

[LarryFinFan]

Gotta say I like what Saban has done to date. Have a few problems though that could lead to trouble spots next year. Not in any order they are:

1) Moving Carey to LT. He doesn't seem to have the feet or athleticism. This could be a big mistake as he's been moved to his third position. He has talent, size and all the attributes needed to make a good to great RG or RT. Why not let him settle in instead of moving him to the most demanding spot on the line?

2) Not dumping or re-signing dead wood. Travis Minor has no value. He peaked as a rookie. Same with Taylor Whitley who didn't play as a first year guy. He was much better then than what he showed when he actually did play. I feel the same way about Sage Rosenfels, who I thought looked bad in the final game of last season and almost every time I saw him in the preseason. I just hope the presence of these clowns on the roster doesn't preclude Saban from drafting people to take their roster spots.

3) Keeping Surtain in limbo. He's our best D back. Second best defender. We're up against the cap and Saban wants draft picks. However, the Chiefs are too stupid to fork over a 2 and the rest of the league has moved on. Cut Madison and that bum Reggie Howard if we have to. Pat should stay a Dolphin.

4) The Safety spots- Travares Tillman and TBuck are two guys with little production and instincts. Counting on these guys and/or rookies and the oft injured Yeremiah Bell sounds dicey at best.

I agree with you on the first point...he is a natural RT..let him stay there.

On the second point, I think Sage is there in case we don't get a QB in the draft, same with Minor (if we don't get a RB), and Whitley was on the roster as well, and we'll see in TC whether he can stay or not....that is the beauty of this type of dead wood...they are cheap backups if needed, but may not make it thru TC...

On the Surtain thing, I think that Saban saw an opportunity to dump his salary and move him knowing we have people who can fill the roster that are decent....Surtain's issue is that he won't want to move unless he gets a big SB with a long term agreement and the team has to give up a draft pick as well. Saban is in the drivers seat with that situation. Besides, that could also be a draft day trade...

It's too early to worry about these things...let the draft happen and let the minicamps begin before we get too worried over these things...

 

[LarryFinFan]

I agree with you on the first point...he is a natural RT..let him stay there.

On the second point, I think Sage is there in case we don't get a QB in the draft, same with Minor (if we don't get a RB), and Whitley was on the roster as well, and we'll see in TC whether he can stay or not....that is the beauty of this type of dead wood...they are cheap backups if needed, but may not make it thru TC...

On the Surtain thing, I think that Saban saw an opportunity to dump his salary and move him knowing we have people who can fill the roster that are decent....Surtain's issue is that he won't want to move unless he gets a big SB with a long term agreement and the team has to give up a draft pick as well. Saban is in the drivers seat with that situation. Besides, that could also be a draft day trade...

As far as the safety position goes, you should give Tbuc a little more credit...he didn't fit into Hasletts defensive scheme. He'll do better than Knight did for us last year...Bell could be a real surprise, but he has to stay healthy.

It's too early to worry about these things...let the draft happen and let the minicamps begin before we get too worried over these things...

ok

 

[LarryFinFan]

Whoops...sorry...fat fingers...

 

[islandah]

I think a lot of what Saban is doing is smokescreen for draft day. By resigning the dead wood, he's not showing what position he's looking at while keeping a serviceable player in that role at a cheap 1 year deal, easy to cut.
I mean let's face it, we hardcore fans don't have a real idea what he's thinking in the draft. Imagine being an opposing GM and trying to read what he's up to.

 

[Mr Yu]

If Houck can make Carey a decent LT , he should be a Head Coach somewhere.

 

[afishfan]

Gotta say I like what Saban has done to date. Have a few problems though that could lead to trouble spots next year. Not in any order they are:

1) Moving Carey to LT. He doesn't seem to have the feet or athleticism. This could be a big mistake as he's been moved to his third position. He has talent, size and all the attributes needed to make a good to great RG or RT. Why not let him settle in instead of moving him to the most demanding spot on the line?

2) Not dumping or re-signing dead wood. Travis Minor has no value. He peaked as a rookie. Same with Taylor Whitley who didn't play as a first year guy. He was much better then than what he showed when he actually did play. I feel the same way about Sage Rosenfels, who I thought looked bad in the final game of last season and almost every time I saw him in the preseason. I just hope the presence of these clowns on the roster doesn't preclude Saban from drafting people to take their roster spots.

3) Keeping Surtain in limbo. He's our best D back. Second best defender. We're up against the cap and Saban wants draft picks. However, the Chiefs are too stupid to fork over a 2 and the rest of the league has moved on. Cut Madison and that bum Reggie Howard if we have to. Pat should stay a Dolphin.

4) The Safety spots- Travares Tillman and TBuck are two guys with little production and instincts. Counting on these guys and/or rookies and the oft injured Yeremiah Bell sounds dicey at best.

We cant' cut Madison and Howard for one thing. It would kill our cap. Why the hell would we want to get rid of Madison anyways????

The bums won't make the roster - don't even worry about them. Whitley is already as good as cut. Rosenfels ALWAYS looks good in preseason - and he played one game w/ a ****ty offense. Go smoke another one.

Why do you care if Carey is moved? It's not like he can't be moved back for one thing. We need to find a left tackle from what we have on the roster....he is one of the best options. We only have a couple of guys that can even possably play the spot. St. Clair, McIntosh, and Carey. ANYBODY THAT CAN PLAY THE POSTION NEEDS TO START OUT THERE!!! I'm sure Saban knows a little bit more than you do about HIS plan - thanks dude.

The safeties are a question mark, but Saban obviously wants more speed there. So shut it until you actually have a point - not some speculation that you don't have a clue about anyways.

Mod Note: Did something lead you to believe you can tell another member here to "shut it"? If so, you're mistaken. Next such comment gets you time off.

P4E

 

[fear-the-d]

4) The Safety spots- Travares Tillman and TBuck are two guys with little production and instincts. Counting on these guys and/or rookies and the oft injured Yeremiah Bell sounds dicey at best.

Two right!

 

[Steve S]

We cant' cut Madison and Howard for one thing. It would kill our cap. Why the hell would we want to get rid of Madison anyways????

To keep Surtain, dumba%^. You have a really rough day at Subway. The boss yell at you again for forgetting to put the meat on the sandwiches?

The bums won't make the roster - don't even worry about them. Whitley is already as good as cut. Rosenfels ALWAYS looks good in preseason - and he played one game w/ a ****ty offense. Go smoke another one.

Why don't you e-mail the Dolphins again and see if you can get them to wear the "right" uniforms you like so much.

Why do you care if Carey is moved? It's not like he can't be moved back for one thing. We need to find a left tackle from what we have on the roster....he is one of the best options. We only have a couple of guys that can even possably play the spot. St. Clair, McIntosh, and Carey. ANYBODY THAT CAN PLAY THE POSTION NEEDS TO START OUT THERE!!! I'm sure Saban knows a little bit more than you do about HIS plan - thanks dude.

Reading comp is obviously a problem of yours. Sounds like you're trying to settle an old grudge in here but doing it badly.

The safeties are a question mark, but Saban obviously wants more speed there. So shut it until you actually have a point - not some speculation that you don't have a clue about anyways.

I'll shut it so chicks like you can whine about uniform colors and wanting fellow losers and malcontents like RW and Dave Boston back. You aren't a Miami fan, you are a stupid child with no brains or point of view.

Mod Note: Next time you counter an an inappropriate post with inappropriate comments of your own gets you time-off. If you have a problem with a post, notify a mod.

P4E

 

[unifiedtheory]

Yeah, sure. You might want to set your Tivo ahead to 2004/2005 not 1999. Madison is not in the same league as Pat anymore. Madison gets burned by better receivers all the time, commits the dumbest personal foul penalties I've seen since Bryan Cox was here and doesn't even get INT's anymore. How many passes has Sam dropped over the last couple of seasons. He doesn't tackle well either. He's an OK corner, Pat is an all-Pro.

Well....I'll start by saying I did not miss a snap last year...not one...of any game that was on.

I replayed about 10 more then once.

Sam Madison (in my humble opinion) was a vastly better corner then Surtain last year.

Surtain looked disinterested at times and allowed a lot of big plays.

Sam has never tackled well...that is a moot point.

Sam does'nt get int's anymore because teams still avoid throwing to his side.

Pat is'nt an All Pro anymore...he WAS an All Pro.

Sam does take some dumb penalties but at least he is playing hard. Surtain made the Pro Bowl as an alternate on REPUTATION alone. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the hardcore fans on this site will agree with me when I say Sam was better last year.

All that being said, Sam redid his deal last year. He is not going anywhere. Cutting him would result in a cap hit and huge dead money...making it impossible to resign Surtain even if we wanted to. The same is said for the idea of cutting Howard. Howard was an insurence policy in case Surtain did'nt resign (a good move by Spielman).

As much as you don't like Howard he is'nt getting cut either.

I realize that some people (like yourself) on this message board have a hard time grasping the fact that Surtain will be gone but it is for the best. We would'nt (and could'nt) resign him anyway.

B.T.W...if you want to post your opinion that is great but insulting other posters because they do not agree with you shows your age and mentality...

 

[Steve S]

Well....I'll start by saying I did not miss a snap last year...not one...of any game that was on.

I replayed about 10 more then once.

I did as well.

Sam Madison (in my humble opinion) was a vastly better corner then Surtain last year.

I think you are giving Sam credit for being better than he was the year before. It still doesn't mean he's better than Pat. Sam drops too many balls and looks like he gives up at times.

Surtain looked disinterested at times and allowed a lot of big plays.

It wasn't his best year but he is still our best d back. He makes plays that others don't/can't. Sam looked disinterested 2 years ago and I can tell you that Pat's 2004 season was vastly better than Sam's 2003.

Sam has never tackled well...that is a moot point.

Not a moot point at all, you have to tackle in this league unless you are Deion. Sam is not.

Sam does'nt get int's anymore because teams still avoid throwing to his side.

No, they don't. Ask Buffalo which side they'd rather go to.

Pat is'nt an All Pro anymore...he WAS an All Pro.
He was an all-Pro this year.

Sam does take some dumb penalties but at least he is playing hard.

Playing hard and playing smart are two different things. When I see Sam take his cheap shots after a play I don't think he's playing smart or hard.
Surtain made the Pro Bowl as an alternate on REPUTATION alone. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the hardcore fans on this site will agree with me when I say Sam was better last year.

Surtain had how many INT's vs Sam last year? I'd be willing to bet he gave up less TD's as well. Pat is one of the top 3 or 4 corners in the AFC. I'd take him over Champ Bailey or Chris McAllister any day. Sam has become middle of the pack, still good but not great.

All that being said, Sam redid his deal last year. He is not going anywhere. Cutting him would result in a cap hit and huge dead money...making it impossible to resign Surtain even if we wanted to. The same is said for the idea of cutting Howard. Howard was an insurence policy in case Surtain did'nt resign (a good move by Spielman).

I don't see how signing Howard (a marginal player not much better than Fletcher) to a deal that could hurt the cap was a good move at all. Why does Spielman never, ever deal from a position of strength?

Miami had the leverage last year and obviously they felt they had too much money tied up in their corners. So what did they do? They gave another corner a 3mil signing bonus to come in to challenge Madison. They put more money into the position and did not get better, IMO.

I dare any Dolphin fan to tell me that based on what they saw last year from Howard that they would feel good about him starting. If you watched him every game as I did the only conclusion you come to is that the guy is too small and too average to relace either Pat or Sam.

I know the excuses that Howard wasn't comfortable in the nickel but the truth is that Pat moved inside most of the time to cover the slot guy and Howard had outside coverage like he would in a base set.


As much as you don't like Howard he is'nt getting cut either.

I realize that some people (like yourself) on this message board have a hard time grasping the fact that Surtain will be gone but it is for the best. We would'nt (and could'nt) resign him anyway.

Sorry, its just hard to watch a great player run out of town b.c of bad cap decisions and signings by Rick Spielman like Reggie Howard. Its not too late to fix this is my point. If they can't cut Howard they could certainly make other arrangements. The only way to justify trading Pat is getting a 2nd back. I don't think its equal value but at least you get a chance to get a starter back from the deal.


B.T.W...if you want to post your opinion that is great but insulting other posters because they do not agree with you shows your age and mentality..

I don't know what I said to offend you. Sorry if I did. The Tivo comment was supposed to be a joke. The only time I got pissy was when Afishfan came in with a personal attack b/c of some unknown reason and I fired back. Was warned about it as well.

The Pat v Sam debate is worth talking about. I don't expect every one to agree with me but I appreciate that you can debate the issue unlike some in here.

I think Pat eventually leaves, whether it is this year or next and I felt the same way about Troy Vincent. Salary cap screwups shouldn't cost you great players. Maybe this time we get something back.

 

[Mile High Fin]

1. Notice that the "moving Carey to LT" thing has been just about the only personnel thing leaked out of Davie this offseason. Why? -- to make McIntosh sign for less. McIntosh will probably be our LT, not Carey. I see Carey at RG alongside McDougle.

EXACTLY!





TRUST IN SABAN...

 

[unifiedtheory]

Well....I'll start by saying I did not miss a snap last year...not one...of any game that was on.

I replayed about 10 more then once.

I did as well.

Sam Madison (in my humble opinion) was a vastly better corner then Surtain last year.

I think you are giving Sam credit for being better than he was the year before. It still doesn't mean he's better than Pat. Sam drops too many balls and looks like he gives up at times.

Surtain looked disinterested at times and allowed a lot of big plays.

It wasn't his best year but he is still our best d back. He makes plays that others don't/can't. Sam looked disinterested 2 years ago and I can tell you that Pat's 2004 season was vastly better than Sam's 2003.

Sam has never tackled well...that is a moot point.

Not a moot point at all, you have to tackle in this league unless you are Deion. Sam is not.

Sam does'nt get int's anymore because teams still avoid throwing to his side.

No, they don't. Ask Buffalo which side they'd rather go to.

Pat is'nt an All Pro anymore...he WAS an All Pro.
He was an all-Pro this year.

Sam does take some dumb penalties but at least he is playing hard.

Playing hard and playing smart are two different things. When I see Sam take his cheap shots after a play I don't think he's playing smart or hard.
Surtain made the Pro Bowl as an alternate on REPUTATION alone. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the hardcore fans on this site will agree with me when I say Sam was better last year.

Surtain had how many INT's vs Sam last year? I'd be willing to bet he gave up less TD's as well. Pat is one of the top 3 or 4 corners in the AFC. I'd take him over Champ Bailey or Chris McAllister any day. Sam has become middle of the pack, still good but not great.

All that being said, Sam redid his deal last year. He is not going anywhere. Cutting him would result in a cap hit and huge dead money...making it impossible to resign Surtain even if we wanted to. The same is said for the idea of cutting Howard. Howard was an insurence policy in case Surtain did'nt resign (a good move by Spielman).

I don't see how signing Howard (a marginal player not much better than Fletcher) to a deal that could hurt the cap was a good move at all. Why does Spielman never, ever deal from a position of strength?

Miami had the leverage last year and obviously they felt they had too much money tied up in their corners. So what did they do? They gave another corner a 3mil signing bonus to come in to challenge Madison. They put more money into the position and did not get better, IMO.

I dare any Dolphin fan to tell me that based on what they saw last year from Howard that they would feel good about him starting. If you watched him every game as I did the only conclusion you come to is that the guy is too small and too average to relace either Pat or Sam.

I know the excuses that Howard wasn't comfortable in the nickel but the truth is that Pat moved inside most of the time to cover the slot guy and Howard had outside coverage like he would in a base set.


As much as you don't like Howard he is'nt getting cut either.

I realize that some people (like yourself) on this message board have a hard time grasping the fact that Surtain will be gone but it is for the best. We would'nt (and could'nt) resign him anyway.

Sorry, its just hard to watch a great player run out of town b.c of bad cap decisions and signings by Rick Spielman like Reggie Howard. Its not too late to fix this is my point. If they can't cut Howard they could certainly make other arrangements. The only way to justify trading Pat is getting a 2nd back. I don't think its equal value but at least you get a chance to get a starter back from the deal.


B.T.W...if you want to post your opinion that is great but insulting other posters because they do not agree with you shows your age and mentality..

I don't know what I said to offend you. Sorry if I did. The Tivo comment was supposed to be a joke. The only time I got pissy was when Afishfan came in with a personal attack b/c of some unknown reason and I fired back. Was warned about it as well.

The Pat v Sam debate is worth talking about. I don't expect every one to agree with me but I appreciate that you can debate the issue unlike some in here.

I think Pat eventually leaves, whether it is this year or next and I felt the same way about Troy Vincent. Salary cap screwups shouldn't cost you great players. Maybe this time we get something back.

Lets just say we agree to disagree...