Questions I Still Have for Jonathan Martin

[Hayden Fox]

1. What date did he receive these text messages and voice mail? Are they recent or something from awhile back.

2. If they are from awhile ago, what possessed him to keep them for a later date and not immediately report the communication?

3. When did Martin specifically go to management about the alleged bullying?

4. Why did the simple prank of players getting up from a lunch table and moving to another so as not to sit with Martin set him over the edge and make these workplace hostility complaints?

5. Does Martin have mental disorders?

6. How much does him getting replaced at LT go into his frustration of all that has transpired?

7. Was Jonathan Martin involved in hazing of other players?

8. What is Martin's endgame? Does he expect to return and under what circumstances?

*** The focus is no on Incognito and what he did and that is appropriate. Incognito might have done some mean-spirited things. Soon, it will shift to what Joe Philbin, Jeff Ireland and Dawn Aponte knew and what they did/didn't do.

However, it is fair to ask questions of Martin and his conduct through this entire episode.

I still have issues with Jonathan Martin. How does the lunchroom prank spiral into this major news story? I am not going to lie: I am so disappointed this has turned into a distraction for a team trying to find its way in the league. There were many other ways Martin could have handled this and he chose not to. I hope Martin understands how he elected to handle this might have costed the jobs of a slew of people within the organization. As a player, I would not want him back into the locker room. I would trust him as far as I could throw Sun Life Stadium. All of those players saying last week they would welcome him back I bet will not be making those comments anymore...and if they do, it is not honest.

 

[gafin]

As this goes on more and more information will probably come out, but it sure looks bad on Joe and the coaching staff, this should have been handled long before it got this far.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Joe will now get blowback from the union and Incognito's people.

Still, I want Martin's take on the questions I asked. IF, IF, IF, these texts are from last year or from even the spring, I have an issue that they come out now. Victim's rights advocates would have an issue with me, but I am sorry...complaints have to be made in relation to offense.

---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------

BTW, I could be swayed to think Incognito is AWFUL in this situation, but I still don't want Martin back. I do not trust him.

Maybe if other players step up for him I could see it, but I do not want him back. BTW, he stinks as an OT in this league. That has something to do with it too.

 

[Dominate]

Hayden, you have been on this rant for quite a while now, and it kind of surprised me given your usual level headedness. BUT...Maybe...just maybe...Martin did nothing to deserve the abuse he received from Incognito. Quite frankly, we outside of that locker room have no real idea as to what was going on. All I can say for fact is that in the days since Martin first left the team, the stories about Incognito and his involvement get worse and worse to the point he is now suspended indefinitely. Maybe Incognito saw an easy target who wouldn't fight back and the abuse simply became unbearable.

It is pretty easy to sit here on this message board and blast Martin, but the simple fact of the matter is we have no idea what he was subjected to. Yea, I'm not happy he left the team, and how this whole deal has now cost us 2 starting o-lineman, but I can't sit here and say Martin's a wussy or he made a mistake, because I have no real idea what kind of hell Incognito is alleged to have put him through.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Incognito is a bad human being and Jonathan Martin handled this as badly as it could be handled. What are you gonna do? Fire everyone, suspend Incognito for the duration of the season, and move on to the 2014 draft with a new GM. Draft OL.

Find a way to keep Ryan Tannehill from suffering a career ending injury in the meantime.

Another year of Dolphins football down the drain.

 

[AL R]

Hayden I think it will all come out at this point. Also doubt martin or incog will ever wear a Dolphin uniform again so no worries there.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Hayden I think it will all come out at this point. Also doubt martin or incog will ever wear a Dolphin uniform again so no worries there.

I betcha they let Martin back and it will have a chilling affect on the team.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I betcha they let Martin back and it will have a chilling affect on the team.

I think Martin damaged himself but I'm willing to bet that Richie being gone will have a positive impact on the team and the OL play in general. Unless all of this stuff about Richie is totally fabricated (I don't believe for one moment that it is), then he was pretty clearly a bully in the room.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Hayden, you have been on this rant for quite a while now, and it kind of surprised me given your usual level headedness. BUT...Maybe...just maybe...Martin did nothing to deserve the abuse he received from Incognito. Quite frankly, we outside of that locker room have no real idea as to what was going on. All I can say for fact is that in the days since Martin first left the team, the stories about Incognito and his involvement get worse and worse to the point he is now suspended indefinitely. Maybe Incognito saw an easy target who wouldn't fight back and the abuse simply became unbearable.

It is pretty easy to sit here on this message board and blast Martin, but the simple fact of the matter is we have no idea what he was subjected to. Yea, I'm not happy he left the team, and how this whole deal has now cost us 2 starting o-lineman, but I can't sit here and say Martin's a wussy or he made a mistake, because I have no real idea what kind of hell Incognito is alleged to have put him through.

I know you might disagree, but I think if these texts and v-mails are not within the last few days...weeks, Jonathan Martin comes off as bizarre and manipulating. Incognito should not be saying that stuff, but in professional environment, Martin needs to be reporting this stuff ASAP.

We are speculating now, but I am just calling my shot. IF, IF, IF this communication is recent, then I start to side with Martin.

BTW, why cannot any mental morons in the media ask WHEN these communications were made?

 

[Dominate]

I betcha they let Martin back and it will have a chilling affect on the team.

If any of what Martin is claiming was true, I really don't think the Dolphins could NOT let him come back without facing some serious retribution from the NFLPA or the league itself. I do agree that if he comes back it will have a chilling effect on the team, as I am sure there a some pro-Incognito guys in the lockerroom and some guys that just plain feel like Martin bailed on them.

 

[Hayden Fox]

If any of what Martin is claiming was true, I really don't think the Dolphins could NOT let him come back without facing some serious retribution from the NFLPA or the league itself. I do agree that if he comes back it will have a chilling effect on the team, as I am sure there a some pro-Incognito guys in the lockerroom and some guys that just plain feel like Martin bailed on them.

TOTALLY agree.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

The question should be, where was the Union's player rep? Every team HAS a player rep, basically a Union steward on the work site. Where was he? And why didn't Martin talk to him?

 

[mnphinfan]

If any of what Martin is claiming was true, I really don't think the Dolphins could NOT let him come back without facing some serious retribution from the NFLPA or the league itself. I do agree that if he comes back it will have a chilling effect on the team, as I am sure there a some pro-Incognito guys in the lockerroom and some guys that just plain feel like Martin bailed on them.

Well the good thing is that they definitely have the right to cut him based on his production, or lack there of.

 

[coalesce]

It looks like the lunchroom prank was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I share your disappointment in this whole thing, but from a practical point of view, this will undoubtedly lead to a complete overhaul of the offensive line for next season, and I think at this point, at least I hope, that Ireland has learned that you have to do a better job in screening college linemen since his luck with signing veterans (Clabo, Colombo) has been shaky at best.

Michael

 

[Dominate]

I know you might disagree, but I think if these texts and v-mails are not within the last few days...weeks, Jonathan Martin comes off as bizarre and manipulating. Incognito should not be saying that stuff, but in professional environment, Martin needs to be reporting this stuff ASAP.

We are speculating now, but I am just calling my shot. IF, IF, IF this communication is recent, then I start to side with Martin.

BTW, why cannot any mental morons in the media ask WHEN these communications were made?

Yea, I see what you are saying, but I kind of look at it like maybe he tried to brush off the "abuse" and ignore it for as long as he could and he just finally hit his breaking point. Maybe Martin did handle it poorly with just leaving the team like he did, I don't know, but maybe he didn't know what to do (for the very same reasons we have all discussed here), and he continued to just sit back and take it until he just snapped. If the messages were from 6 months ago, they are still relevant. For me, if he has texts and voiceamails from that long ago, it becomes a little more disturbing for me in my view of Incognito, as then it clearly shows that this was a long term pattern of behavior Richie subjected him to, and not just a recent thing.