Raider fan here... I'll trade you Beck for Russell! | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Raider fan here... I'll trade you Beck for Russell!

cougarfinfan

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I am a Raider fan, so let's just get this first statement out of the way. My team sucks! I don't know why I am a fan. It's just in my blood. It was drilled into me from my early childhood, and it's just something that I can't get out of my system, no matter how retarded Al Davis is.

The only other team I care about at this point is the Dolphins. I have become a Dolphin fan since John Beck was drafted. Truth is, I followed the Dolphins more this year that I did the Raiders. You probably don't care who I am or what I think, but I wanted to share some observations with you.

First off, Miami fans are VERY loyal. Much like Raider fans, you have had little to chear about for a long time, and I feel your pain. Your loyalty to your team, and some players like Zach Thomas is impressive.

The one thing that I don't understand is how quickly you give up on new blood. Since John Beck is the reason I am now a fan, I will use him as my example. I simply don't understand the harsh criticism that he recieves by many on this site. As a lifelong fan of the game, I can only attribute the criticism of John to a lack of understanding of the game and it's history. Truth is, it's not about John Beck. It's about the position and understanding the tools needed to be a star at this position. John Beck has the tools. What he needs is an O Line to protect him and the experience to develop those tools. He had neither last year. What he needs is a fan base that understands what it will take to develop a quaterback and the patience to build a team around one. I have watched Miami fans run every quaterback since Marino out of town before really giving them a chance to succeed. Granted, you have had some duds, but even the ones that showed promised were cast aside far too easily, despite not having a good supporting cast.

To the critics that say John Beck showed nothing last year, I can only laugh. Statiscally, he was as good or better than the opposing quarterbacks he played against. No the Dolphins didn't win, but he did more with what he had to work with than any other Dolphin QB. The play calling was horrible when he was in and he had very little to work with. All things considered, he did very well. Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Stop letting emotion cloud your view of the facts. Was he perfect? Absolutely not. He made plenty of mistakes, but he did show the ability to rise above them and he never let them affect him mentally. The last game of the year showed that he is a real gamer and that he will not let adversity get him down.

The question is, would I be saying these things if it were anyone other than John Beck? Yes I would, if we were talking about someone else with the same skills set, dedication and work ethic. In fact, I would be willing to trade quarterbacks with you any day. Russel will be a bust! He has some physical tools, but the guy is as dumb as they come and it takes smarts to excell in the NFL. Did you catch his interview during the BCS Championship game? As a Raider fan, I am sick that we wasted a pick on him. There is no way he will be a great NFL QB. He will be another head case with skills, like Michael Vick or Vincy Young. John Beck on the other hand will, if you give him the time, and a supporting cast.

My last point is about Matt Ryan, or any other so-called elite college QB. What makes you so sure he will be successfull? Have you looked at the statistics? VERY few of the top college QB's ever really make it in the NFL. Most of them end up as mediocre talent, like Vince Young is proving himself to be. Some end up as complete busts, like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington. There is a reason Bill Parcells doesn't waste first round draft picks on Quarterbacks... they rarely pan out. The gems are usually found in the later rounds. They are the lesser known stars that developed themselves through hard work and dedication to improvement. They don't get caught up in themselves and they have a true love of the game. Finally, they are students of the game and they are supported throughout their development.

Don't look for Parcells to give in to fan sentiment by picking Matt Ryan. It won't happen. If John Beck is not his guy, so be it. John will be a success somewhere in this league. I hope it is with the Dolphins (or Raiders), but he will succeed nevertheless. The point is, if you don't have John, you have a veteran next year running the offense. You will not have Matt Ryan.

Simply put, Bill Parcells is smarter than you. And for your sake, I say "Thank God for that".
 
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I think Beck will succeed too, but Parcells picked Bledsoe with a #1 and Beck did not play better than the quarterbacks he played against last year...please back that up with something if you can.
 
Wow, that was an excellent post. I do have to say that I was never critical about John Beck and I am very Happy with the Way Cam and Randy ran the draft last year. The problem is we have been bad too long and now us Miami fans are getting impatient. Patience is what is needed to rebuild the sorry franchise this has become. I've had plenty of "football" talks with plenty of people and I believe Beck has the Brains to lead this franchise. Considering the fact that he was thrown to the Wolves of Pass defense (Pittsburg and Philly). He did fine. His surrounding talent Sucked, Give Beck time and I believe his time in Miami will be long and Fruitful.
 
By the way....although Parcells didn't select him...he won a superbowl with the number one pick Phil Simms QB...so it's another QB that worked well with Parcells.
 
ill trade ya

No, Beck needs time and a Patient supporting cast. This team sucked to bad to evaluate the true potential of Beck. Russel is about as smart as a rock. I might relate him to a lemming. Russel is definately not our answer, He might have better talent but he could never be a leader like Marino, Montana, Peyton, Theisman, etc...
 
Drafting QB's is a crapshoot.....you could end up with with a Tom Brady in the later rounds, or a Ryan Leaf.
 
No, Beck needs time and a Patient supporting cast. This team sucked to bad to evaluate the true potential of Beck. Russel is about as smart as a rock. I might relate him to a lemming. Russel is definately not our answer, He might have better talent but he could never be a leader like Marino, Montana, Peyton, Theisman, etc...

Just wondering...how much leadership did Beck show when his teammates wanted Lemon instead of him?
 
I am a Raider fan, so let's just get this first statement out of the way. My team sucks! I don't know why I am a fan. It's just in my blood. It was drilled into me from my early childhood, and it's just something that I can't get out of my system, no matter how retarded Al Davis is.

The only other team I care about at this point is the Dolphins. I have become a Dolphin fan since John Beck was drafted. Truth is, I followed the Dolphins more this year that I did the Raiders. You probably don't care who I am or what I think, but I wanted to share some observations with you.

First off, Miami fans are VERY loyal. Much like Raider fans, you have had little to chear about for a long time, and I feel your pain. Your loyalty to your team, and some players like Zach Thomas is impressive.

The one thing that I don't understand is how quickly you give up on new blood. Since John Beck is the reason I am now a fan, I will use him as my example. I simply don't understand the harsh criticism that he recieves by many on this site. As a lifelong fan of the game, I can only attribute the criticism of John to a lack of understanding of the game and it's history. Truth is, it's not about John Beck. It's about the position and understanding the tools needed to be a star at this position. John Beck has the tools. What he needs is an O Line to protect him and the experience to develop those tools. He had neither last year. What he needs is a fan base that understands what it will take to develop a quaterback and the patience to build a team around one. I have watched Miami fans run every quaterback since Marino out of town before really giving them a chance to succeed. Granted, you have had some duds, but even the ones that showed promised were cast aside far too easily, despite not having a good supporting cast.

To the critics that say John Beck showed nothing last year, I can only laugh. Statiscally, he was as good or better than the opposing quarterbacks he played against. No the Dolphins didn't win, but he did more with what he had to work with than any other Dolphin QB. The play calling was horrible when he was in and he had very little to work with. All things considered, he did very well. Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Stop letting emotion cloud your view of the facts. Was he perfect? Absolutely not. He made plenty of mistakes, but he did show the ability to rise above them and he never let them affect him mentally. The last game of the year showed that he is a real gamer and that he will not let adversity get him down.

The question is, would I be saying these things if it were anyone other than John Beck? Yes I would, if we were talking about someone else with the same skills set, dedication and work ethic. In fact, I would be willing to trade quarterbacks with you any day. Russel will be a bust! He has some physical tools, but the guy is as dumb as they come and it takes smarts to excell in the NFL. Did you catch his interview during the BCS Championship game? As a Raider fan, I am sick that we wasted a pick on him. There is no way he will be a great NFL QB. He will be another head case with skills, like Michael Vick or Vincy Young. John Beck on the other hand will, if you give him the time, and a supporting cast.

My last point is about Matt Ryan, or any other so-called elite college QB. What makes you so sure he will be successfull? Have you looked at the statistics? VERY few of the top college QB's ever really make it in the NFL. Most of them end up as mediocre talent, like Vince Young is proving himself to be. Some end up as complete busts, like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington. There is a reason Bill Parcells doesn't waste first round draft picks on Quarterbacks... they rarely pan out. The gems are usually found in the later rounds. They are the lesser known stars that developed themselves through hard work and dedication to improvement. They don't get caught up in themselves and they have a true love of the game. Finally, they are students of the game and they are supported throughout their development.

Don't look for Parcells to give in to fan sentiment by picking Matt Ryan. It won't happen. If John Beck is not his guy, so be it. John will be a success somewhere in this league. I hope it is with the Dolphins (or Raiders), but he will succeed nevertheless. The point is, if you don't have John, you have a veteran next year running the offense. You will not have Matt Ryan.

Simply put, Bill Parcells is smarter than you. And for your sake, I say "Thank God for that".
I do like Ryan but you have the rest right. I got ripped the other day for saying most of these posters are acting like NY fans. Their is a reason that team only won on the road. Sadly most of these people know nothing about developeing players and think players should just be thrown in there and become stars. It's sad but true. Us true faithful stand by our players and defend them to the end though and you will see that if you hang around.
 
Just wondering...how much leadership did Beck show when his teammates wanted Lemon instead of him?

Beck is also a rookie and needs time. Heres a homework assignment, Find what Steve Young did his first two years and tell me he was a leader right off the bat. Steve was on a sucky team and Sucked himself. He did Horrible. Like I've said before we need patience even if it is hard to find.
 
Beck is also a rookie and needs time. Heres a homework assignment, Find what Steve Young did his first two years and tell me he was a leader right off the bat. Steve was on a sucky team and Sucked himself. He did Horrible. Like I've said before we need patience even if it is hard to find.

You don't have tell me about Steve Young...I saw him play many games at Tampa stadium....they also had a great armed QB named Doug Williams.
 
I think Beck will succeed too, but Parcells picked Bledsoe with a #1 and Beck did not play better than the quarterbacks he played against last year...please back that up with something if you can.

Look at the stats from each game. They have been listed here on several occasions. Take the Steelers game for example, given the conditions and the heavy blitzing he was seeing, for a rookie to come in a play mistake free was outstanding. Yes we lost the game, but he played as well as Big Ben did, and how many times did the receivers simply drop a wel thrown ball from Beck? Too many! His stats would have been much better and we may have even won a game or two with him in there. Where is the outcry against the receiving corps? If we are going to complain, let's at least be honest with ourselves. The only real problem Beck had last year were the fumbles, almost half of which came from being hit from the blind side, which was a result of poor pass protection. You guys are giving up on this guy way too early!

And yes, I really would trade Beck for Russell. Russell has a big (ok, HUGE) body and good arm strength. Beck has good arm strength, is VERY accurate and is as smart as they come. If Beck had played for LSU or any BCS school for that matter, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It is all about perception coming out of college. In the NFL, you have to prove yourself, which Beck will surely do if he is given the chance.
 
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