Raider fan here... I'll trade you Beck for Russell! | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Raider fan here... I'll trade you Beck for Russell!

cougarfinfan said:
I am a Raider fan, so let's just get this first statement out of the way. My team sucks! I don't know why I am a fan. It's just in my blood. It was drilled into me from my early childhood, and it's just something that I can't get out of my system, no matter how retarded Al Davis is.

The only other team I care about at this point is the Dolphins. I have become a Dolphin fan since John Beck was drafted. Truth is, I followed the Dolphins more this year that I did the Raiders. You probably don't care who I am or what I think, but I wanted to share some observations with you.

First off, Miami fans are VERY loyal. Much like Raider fans, you have had little to chear about for a long time, and I feel your pain. Your loyalty to your team, and some players like Zach Thomas is impressive.

The one thing that I don't understand is how quickly you give up on new blood. Since John Beck is the reason I am now a fan, I will use him as my example. I simply don't understand the harsh criticism that he recieves by many on this site. As a lifelong fan of the game, I can only attribute the criticism of John to a lack of understanding of the game and it's history. Truth is, it's not about John Beck. It's about the position and understanding the tools needed to be a star at this position. John Beck has the tools. What he needs is an O Line to protect him and the experience to develop those tools. He had neither last year. What he needs is a fan base that understands what it will take to develop a quaterback and the patience to build a team around one. I have watched Miami fans run every quaterback since Marino out of town before really giving them a chance to succeed. Granted, you have had some duds, but even the ones that showed promised were cast aside far too easily, despite not having a good supporting cast.

To the critics that say John Beck showed nothing last year, I can only laugh. Statiscally, he was as good or better than the opposing quarterbacks he played against. No the Dolphins didn't win, but he did more with what he had to work with than any other Dolphin QB. The play calling was horrible when he was in and he had very little to work with. All things considered, he did very well. Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Stop letting emotion cloud your view of the facts. Was he perfect? Absolutely not. He made plenty of mistakes, but he did show the ability to rise above them and he never let them affect him mentally. The last game of the year showed that he is a real gamer and that he will not let adversity get him down.

The question is, would I be saying these things if it were anyone other than John Beck? Yes I would, if we were talking about someone else with the same skills set, dedication and work ethic. In fact, I would be willing to trade quarterbacks with you any day. Russel will be a bust! He has some physical tools, but the guy is as dumb as they come and it takes smarts to excell in the NFL. Did you catch his interview during the BCS Championship game? As a Raider fan, I am sick that we wasted a pick on him. There is no way he will be a great NFL QB. He will be another head case with skills, like Michael Vick or Vincy Young. John Beck on the other hand will, if you give him the time, and a supporting cast.

My last point is about Matt Ryan, or any other so-called elite college QB. What makes you so sure he will be successfull? Have you looked at the statistics? VERY few of the top college QB's ever really make it in the NFL. Most of them end up as mediocre talent, like Vince Young is proving himself to be. Some end up as complete busts, like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington. There is a reason Bill Parcells doesn't waste first round draft picks on Quarterbacks... they rarely pan out. The gems are usually found in the later rounds. They are the lesser known stars that developed themselves through hard work and dedication to improvement. They don't get caught up in themselves and they have a true love of the game. Finally, they are students of the game and they are supported throughout their development.

Don't look for Parcells to give in to fan sentiment by picking Matt Ryan. It won't happen. If John Beck is not his guy, so be it. John will be a success somewhere in this league. I hope it is with the Dolphins (or Raiders), but he will succeed nevertheless. The point is, if you don't have John, you have a veteran next year running the offense. You will not have Matt Ryan.

Simply put, Bill Parcells is smarter than you. And for your sake, I say "Thank God for that".
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Welcome Man! :up: And great post! I really like Beck aswell, he just needs time. He's got a good head on his shoulders...
 
LemonPepper said:
And Beck played lights out; oh, but you have excuse after excuse for Beck. Lemon played with a differnt team from Beck. Beck's horrible play can be balmed on the oline, receivers, coaches, inexperience, etc. Lemon on the other hand was given one shot and in your opinion didn't deserve it because he's not a protypical dolphins qb.
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Lemon made stupid-*** mistakes and decisions. In his first 4 games, his stats were virtually identical to Beck's despite having Brown and Chambers in a couple games, despite playing in adequate conditions in all four games, and despite having 4 years more experience in the NFL over Beck. There's no telling how well Beck would have done with all the playing time Lemon got.

I have no doubt, though, that it would have been at least equal to, if not better than, Cleo.

Lemon plain sucked.

IMO.
 
fishypete said:
I tell you why...Even under lousy situations...Beck didn't show me or his team mates that he had "it". Even Lemon out played him, who no one would say is a franchise QB...you expect something out of QB's...even when they lose. Even if you use Young or Williams as an example...even on lousy teams they showed that they had something to them....obviously the Redskins and the 49ers agree with me. The only reason why Beck won't be released or waived is that he has a new contract...but I don't doubt that if some team made Parcells a great offer he'd be gone. The one item that may save Beck with Parcells is, Parcells runs a different type of offense...one that could save Beck...handing off the football and throwing less would be a help to him. We'll see.
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:rolleyes2:

This response is really all this post is worthy of.

Oh and one of these... :lol:
 
LemonPepper said:
And Beck played lights out; oh, but you have excuse after excuse for Beck. Lemon played with a differnt team from Beck. Beck's horrible play can be balmed on the oline, receivers, coaches, inexperience, etc. Lemon on the other hand was given one shot and in your opinion didn't deserve it because he's not a protypical dolphins qb.
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We'll see just how much the NFL thinks of your boy Lemon this offseason.

My money's on him not having one single team make a play for him as a starter.

Difference between Beck and Lemon is a big one.

Lemon's been around the pro game for 5 years now and he's shown squat!

Becks a rookie just getting his feet wet...... I know that's too much to grasp.
We could post the unending examples of horrid rookie campaigns of QB's who turned out good but they just get ignored by the usual torch bearing crew.
 
if you are a female I love you. If you are a male I have a man crush on you. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
fishypete said:
I tell you why...Even under lousy situations...Beck didn't show me or his team mates that he had "it". Even Lemon out played him, who no one would say is a franchise QB...you expect something out of QB's...even when they lose. Even if you use Young or Williams as an example...even on lousy teams they showed that they had something to them....obviously the Redskins and the 49ers agree with me. The only reason why Beck won't be released or waived is that he has a new contract...but I don't doubt that if some team made Parcells a great offer he'd be gone. The one item that may save Beck with Parcells is, Parcells runs a different type of offense...one that could save Beck...handing off the football and throwing less would be a help to him. We'll see.
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Unless you think the "it" thing is something called "experience", it's a very unfair situation to evaluate the "it" fact from last season.
We the dolfans, are and will be waiting for a guy to fill Marino's place, a place that even the very Dan could fill since mid 90's. That's the main source of all illness, we are desperate for a top notch caliber passer like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or 4th quarter Eli Manning, but those players are almost impossible to find!!!
Parcells wants to rebuild our defense while our offense avoids turnovers and executes practical football, because in my opinion, our offense lacks of understanding of the system, and without understanding of the game plan, there's poor execution. So while our O-Line will be reshaped, the offensive scheme will get reduced and tricky plays are going to be added week by week, adopting specific game strategy for each opponent. That said, the type of offense may be almost the same, but adding a pair of key weapons this offense can succeed sooner than expected.
 
Colorado Dolfan said:
:shakeno:

I call BS on Lemon outplaying him.

In their first four games, (which it is only fair to compare, IMO) Beck had comparable stats to Lemon despite:

1) Playing without the talents of Ronnie Brown or Chris Chambers.
2) Playing two of his games in some of the worst field conditions ever.
3) Playing as a rookie vs. Lemon's 4 years in the League.

Just the way I look at it, though...

Beck also never had the horrible mistakes that Lemon did, such as running out of bounds after a 10-yard backwards scramble when he could have thrown the ball out of bounds or his weak "attempt" at a TD against the Pats.

Sure, he had some fumbling issues, but that is something that can be fixed. ;)
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Cleo Lemon didn't play well last year and neither did John Beck, but Cleo did give us a better chance to win than John did. Poor Beck couldn't do anything against a pitiful Jets defense. I believe that John Beck will improve this year, but I would like to see us take a QB at some point in the draft.
 
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