Rex Ryan Looks Depleted...

[JTC111]

He was considered a failure early in his career, through 3 seasons he hadn't led the Giants to a playoff win...

I'm not sure why Jets fans like to hang their hats on this. Have there been great quarterbacks that had bad years at the beginning of their careers? Sure. But so did every crappy quarterback that played two seasons more than they should have. Sometimes sucking at the beginning of a career is an indicator that you suck.

 

[nyjunc]

I'm not sure why Jets fans like to hang their hats on this. Have there been great quarterbacks that had bad years at the beginning of their careers? Sure. But so did every crappy quarterback that played two seasons more than they should have. Sometimes sucking at the beginning of a career is an indicator that you suck.

That's good b/c our QB ahs yet to lead us to a losing record and has 2 title game apps in 3 years so obviously he's been a success. That bodes well for the future.

 

[JTC111]

That's good b/c our QB ahs yet to lead us to a losing record and has 2 title game apps in 3 years so obviously he's been a success. That bodes well for the future.

Your qb led you right to mediocrity last year, didn't he?

 

[nyjunc]

Your qb led you right to mediocrity last year, didn't he?

He helped, we had a terrible year but you guys would be doing cartwheels if you won 8 games. It's nice that we won 8 and that is considered an awful season.

 

[JTC111]

He helped, we had a terrible year but you guys would be doing cartwheels if you won 8 games. It's nice that we won 8 and that is considered an awful season.

You'd get no cartwheels from me ...not even for making the playoffs. I've seen too many seasons where the Fins made the playoffs and went out first round. We'd have to win a couple of games in the postseason for me to start to get excited. But considering the Jets history, I can see why 8-8 might sound okay to some of you.

 

[DuderinoN703]

other than the fact that both were #1 overall picks, both struggled early in their careers, both won SB MVps, both helped their teams win 2 SBs in a relatively short period of time and neither was elite there is very little they have in common.

You act like Eli has had this steady rise. Eli was bad his first year, got better in year 2, remained the same in year 3, got worse in year 4, had his best season in year 5, took a step back in year 6, had his worst non rookie season in year 7 and improved in year 8. There wasn't consistency in the way he improved, this is a man who threw 25 INts just a season ago.

Plunkett didn't play onn teams w/ defenses like the Giants had in 2007 and 2011 and didn't play in the parity/FA era and he won his first SB in his 7th full season season starting, his 2nd in his 9th full season starting. Eli has been starting 7 full seasons- very similar.

Plunkett only has 1 SB MVP

The fact that Plunkett has 30 more INTs than TDs in his career should end this discussion right here. A QB who finishes with the stats he finished with in the 1970s, the 2090s, 800 A.D....when the **** ever.....the guy cannot be elite by any stretch of the imagination. Eli Manning has those 2 SB wins and MVPs and has the stats to back him up.

He also still has 8-10 more years to add on to his already decent stats. There is no comparison between the two now which means there won't possibly be anything to discuss about their careers in 2020.

 

[nyjunc]

You'd get no cartwheels from me ...not even for making the playoffs. I've seen too many seasons where the Fins made the playoffs and went out first round. We'd have to win a couple of games in the postseason for me to start to get excited. But considering the Jets history, I can see why 8-8 might sound okay to some of you.

You've seen the playoffs once in the last 10 seasons, you haven't won a playoff game sinc 2000, you haven't advanced beyond a div rd since 1992 and you wouldn't be excited about a postseason berth?

8-8 sucks, that's the point. People act like we went 2-14 last year. That's a good thing b/c it means the expectations are high, Miami goes 6-10 and no one notices, the Jets go 8-8 and that is all anyone can talk about.

The fact that Plunkett has 30 more INTs than TDs in his career should end this discussion right here. A QB who finishes with the stats he finished with in the 1970s, the 2090s, 800 A.D....when the **** ever.....the guy cannot be elite by any stretch of the imagination. Eli Manning has those 2 SB wins and MVPs and has the stats to back him up.

He also still has 8-10 more years to add on to his already decent stats. There is no comparison between the two now which means there won't possibly be anything to discuss about their careers in 2020.

No it shouldn't be AGAIN you are comparing individual #s of players from vastly different eras. AGAIN, you compare them against their peers ansd they are quite similar so far against their peers.

I think 8-10 years is being very generous, I think it's closer to 5 and yes he can seperate himself from Plunkett but as o now the two are very similar.

The fact that you keep throwing out individual #s tells me you shouldn't be debating this topic.

 

[nyjunc]

By the way, on si.com this morning longtime GM Bruce Allen listed Plunkett as one of many he thinks belongs in he HOF but how is that possible considering he threw 34 more INts than TDs?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/07/08/guest-mmqb-bruce-allen/2.html

 

[DuderinoN703]

No it shouldn't be AGAIN you are comparing individual #s of players from vastly different eras. AGAIN, you compare them against their peers ansd they are quite similar so far against their peers.

I think 8-10 years is being very generous, I think it's closer to 5 and yes he can seperate himself from Plunkett but as o now the two are very similar.

Manning is similar against his peers? Who else who isn't Tom Brady has 2 SB wins and 2 SB MVPs in 5 years?

The fact that you keep throwing out individual #s tells me you shouldn't be debating this topic.

It's true. I just can't compete with the professional facts that are actually just opinions from you. What am I doing here after 8 years?

 

[DuderinoN703]

By the way, on si.com this morning longtime GM Bruce Allen listed Plunkett as one of many he thinks belongs in he HOF but how is that possible considering he threw 34 more INts than TDs?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/07/08/guest-mmqb-bruce-allen/2.html

Welp better get him in then since Bruce Allen says so

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 AM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_%28NFL%29

.500 record and 34 more INTs than TDs for his career. 1 Super Bowl win and MVP in a flash in the pan (but deserved) victory. Yippy.

 

[nyjunc]

Manning is similar against his peers? Who else who isn't Tom Brady has 2 SB wins and 2 SB MVPs in 5 years?



It's true. I just can't compete with the professional facts that are actually just opinions from you. What am I doing here after 8 years?

SB MVPs are from ONE GAME and it's easily argued he didn't deserve either one. It's not like he was lights out in either game.

he has similar amounts of top 10 finishes as Plunkett in almost the same amount of years as a starter.

Welp better get him in then since Bruce Allen says so

Just pointing out how silly it is to look at a QB of the 70s & 80s and compare his individual stats to a QB of today.

 

[DuderinoN703]

SB MVPs are from ONE GAME and it's easily argued he didn't deserve either one. It's not like he was lights out in either game.

he has similar amounts of top 10 finishes as Plunkett in almost the same amount of years as a starter.

Argue it all you want. He's the MVP twice now.

Just pointing out how silly it is to look at a QB of the 70s & 80s and compare his individual stats to a QB of today.

I don't think they should be compared in any way including just plain old statistics

 

[nyjunc]

Argue it all you want. He's the MVP twice now.



I don't think they should be compared in any way including just plain old statistics

That's great but that doesn't make up for his mostly mediocre reg seasons and his ZERO elite level full seasons.


Both #1 overall picks
both struggled early(Plunkett was let go by SF, Eli was on his way in NY)
both won multiple SBs after being left for dead and both won SB MVPs
both lost in the 2nd rd/div rd in only playoff app btw SB apps(plunkett upset at home by Jets in '82, Eli upset at home by Philly in '08)
Both led NFL in INTs- Plunkett once, Eli twice
Plunkett top 10 in rating twice, Eli once
Plunkett 7 times top 10 in GW drives, Eli 3
Plunkett 7 times in top 10 in comebacks, Eli 4

it goes on and one

 

[Kinzua]

SB MVPs are from ONE GAME and it's easily argued he didn't deserve either one. It's not like he was lights out in either game.

he has similar amounts of top 10 finishes as Plunkett in almost the same amount of years as a starter.

Plunkett's last year as a bonafide starter was 1976 or 1977 IIRC. After he was cut by San Fran, he couldn't ever earn a starting job again but inherited starting jobs when the QB ahead of him got hurt. He earned both of his SB rings as a fill-in for the Raiders' starting QB. In other words, he was a bigger version of Doug Flutie on better teams than the 1999 Bills. Neither Plunkett nor Flutie belong in the HOF.

Eli Manning has been the full time starter for the Gnats since his rookie season. That's starting for 7 full years. He's going to be the Gnats starter for the foreseeable future, too. Whether his record is good enough to get him into the HOF or not is still to be determined. There is no doubt that he played at an elite level in 2011, especially early in the season when his late game heroics made the Gnats' late run for the playoffs possible. If he strings together two or three more similar years, then he definitely punches his ticket to Canton.

Plunkett isn't in the HOF because he not only didn't put up good numbers, but also because he wasn't good enough to be a full time starting QB in the NFL for most of his career. DOH!
[/QUOTE]

 

[nyjunc]

Plunkett's last year as a bonafide starter was 1976 or 1977 IIRC. After he was cut by San Fran, he couldn't ever earn a starting job again but inherited starting jobs when the QB ahead of him got hurt. He earned both of his SB rings as a fill-in for the Raiders' starting QB. In other words, he was a bigger version of Doug Flutie on better teams than the 1999 Bills. Neither Plunkett nor Flutie belong in the HOF.

Eli Manning has been the full time starter for the Gnats since his rookie season. That's starting for 7 full years. He's going to be the Gnats starter for the foreseeable future, too. Whether his record is good enough to get him into the HOF or not is still to be determined. There is no doubt that he played at an elite level in 2011, especially early in the season when his late game heroics made the Gnats' late run for the playoffs possible. If he strings together two or three more similar years, then he definitely punches his ticket to Canton.

Plunkett isn't in the HOF because he not only didn't put up good numbers, but also because he wasn't good enough to be a full time starting QB in the NFL for most of his career. DOH!

I didn't say plunkett belongs in the Hall, just pointed out what bruce Allen said.

How many playoff apps has Buf made since they let Flutie go? how many SBs has Oak/LA won since Plunkett retired?

Eli played at an elite level at TIMES last year, he did not have an elite full season or else his team would have been better than 9-7 in a mediocre division. he doesn't have a single elite level full season.