Rex Ryan Looks Depleted...

[DuderinoN703]

That's great but that doesn't make up for his mostly mediocre reg seasons and his ZERO elite level full seasons.

Sucks that the mediocre QB in your city has more rings than your entire franchise's history. I know.

Both #1 overall picks
both struggled early(Plunkett was let go by SF, Eli was on his way in NY)
both won multiple SBs after being left for dead and both won SB MVPs
both lost in the 2nd rd/div rd in only playoff app btw SB apps(plunkett upset at home by Jets in '82, Eli upset at home by Philly in '08)
Both led NFL in INTs- Plunkett once, Eli twice
Plunkett top 10 in rating twice, Eli once
Plunkett 7 times top 10 in GW drives, Eli 3
Plunkett 7 times in top 10 in comebacks, Eli 4

it goes on and one

So you don't want to compare their stats b/c of the different era but it's okay to compare them in INTs, ratings, GW drives, and in comebacks. Do you realize their statistics come from every one of those scenarios you're trying to use to make your point?

 

[DuderinoN703]

How many playoff apps has Buf made since they let Flutie go? how many SBs has Oak/LA won since Plunkett retired?

The Raiders actually went to the Super Bowl in 2002, something the Jets haven't done in 43 years. Did they win, no. But don't let that prevent you from acting like it's such an easy task to make it to the Super Bowl every year.

 

[nyjunc]

Sucks that the mediocre QB in your city has more rings than your entire franchise's history. I know.



So you don't want to compare their stats b/c of the different era but it's okay to compare them in INTs, ratings, GW drives, and in comebacks. Do you realize their statistics come from every one of those scenarios you're trying to use to make your point?

where did I call Eli mediocre?

You just don't get it for some reason. I am comparing them to their PEERS, those #s are against the players in their league in their era. Top 10s tell us something, just blindly reciting yds, TDs, INts does not tell us a thing.

The Raiders actually went to the Super Bowl in 2002, something the Jets haven't done in 43 years. Did they win, no. But don't let that prevent you from acting like it's such an easy task to make it to the Super Bowl every year.

you are all over the place, at what point did I say it was easy to reach the SB?

 

[DuderinoN703]

where did I call Eli mediocre?

You just don't get it for some reason. I am comparing them to their PEERS, those #s are against the players in their league in their era. Top 10s tell us something, just blindly reciting yds, TDs, INts does not tell us a thing.

You're right, I don't get why you're so insistent that Plunkett vs. his peers is the same as Manning vs. his. It's the year of the QB in the NFL now. What was it in Plunkett's days, throw more INTs than TDs in your career and be considered hall of fame worthy?

you are all over the place, at what point did I say it was easy to reach the SB?

All over the place...perhaps if you'd stop trying to insult me and speak like a real hombre then we'd get somewhere.

Your question about how many SBs Oakland has been to since Plunkett has retired as if he was the almighty reason they won their SBs 100 years ago. How many repeat teams have gotten to the Super Bowl since he retired? No more than a few right? It isn't easy.

 

[nyjunc]

You're right, I don't get why you're so insistent that Plunkett vs. his peers is the same as Manning vs. his. It's the year of the QB in the NFL now. What was it in Plunkett's days, throw more INTs than TDs in your career and be considered hall of fame worthy?





All over the place...perhaps if you'd stop trying to insult me and speak like a real hombre then we'd get somewhere.

Your question about how many SBs Oakland has been to since Plunkett has retired as if he was the almighty reason they won their SBs 100 years ago. How many repeat teams have gotten to the Super Bowl since he retired? No more than a few right? It isn't easy.

Maybe it's my fault for not being more clear b/c I know you are an intelligent guy. Comparing Plunkett vs. his peers is the same as comparing Eli vs. his peers. Eli may have more Tds but the top 10s are vs/ guys of his era so I am not comparing his #s to a player of a different era I am comparing him to his peers so maybe 25 TDs gets you a top 10 in 2011 and maybe 15 in 1980- they'd both be top 10 finishes and that is what I am comparing not pure #s. Their careers are very similar so far, Eli has a chance to move way out in front but we'll see if he can.


I'm not insulting you, if you have a guilty conscience that is on you.

The point of bringing up the SB wins was to illustrate how difficult it is to win. They haven't won one since that "terrible" QB w/ more INts than TDs helped them win 2 so maybe he's not that terrible? Maybe #s don't tell us the whole story? Most fans thinkt he way you do, many players too if you saw Amani Toomer's ridiculous comments last week but the position is about more than just fantasy #s.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Maybe it's my fault for not being more clear b/c I know you are an intelligent guy. Comparing Plunkett vs. his peers is the same as comparing Eli vs. his peers. Eli may have more Tds but the top 10s are vs/ guys of his era so I am not comparing his #s to a player of a different era I am comparing him to his peers so maybe 25 TDs gets you a top 10 in 2011 and maybe 15 in 1980- they'd both be top 10 finishes and that is what I am comparing not pure #s. Their careers are very similar so far, Eli has a chance to move way out in front but we'll see if he can.

If anything I believe it's reasonable to compare them to their peers but not to each other. I don't think it's fair to do both. I also don't agree that their career numbers are similar. Eli Manning's numbers have already surpassed Plunkett's entire career and Manning has 8-10 years left. It's pretty safe to assume his numbers will get even better unless he gets hit by a meteor.

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

I'm not insulting you, if you have a guilty conscience that is on you.

See to me you're insulting me right there. I'm not a moron. You tell me I don't get it, I'm all over the place, and that I shouldn't be in this discussion.

These are compliments to you? Stick to the topic and leave the personal attempts at distracting me alone.

 

[Kinzua]

I didn't say plunkett belongs in the Hall, just pointed out what bruce Allen said.

How many playoff apps has Buf made since they let Flutie go? how many SBs has Oak/LA won since Plunkett retired?

Eli played at an elite level at TIMES last year, he did not have an elite full season or else his team would have been better than 9-7 in a mediocre division. he doesn't have a single elite level full season.

What does Buffalo have to do with this discussion? We're talking about the Jests ... and your obsession with deprecating the achievements of the rival Gnats' current starting QB by comparing him to a mediocre QB from the 1970s-1980s who got lucky a couple of times.

 

[nyjunc]

What does Buffalo have to do with this discussion? We're talking about the Jests ... and your obsession with deprecating the achievements of the rival Gnats' current starting QB by comparing him to a mediocre QB from the 1970s-1980s who got lucky a couple of times.

You were the one who brought up Flutie, Flutie did play for the Bills, right?

So Plunkett got lucky a couple of times winning 2 SBs by an average of 23 pts but Eli didn't get lucky winning 2 by an average of 3.5 where he needed a team to drop an INT and a ball to stick to a helmet in the first one and a sure handed Welker to drop a critical pass in the 2nd one. Please explain.

I give Eli tons of credit for what he has done, that doesn't mean I have to lie and act like he's Tom Brady. he doesn't have the consistent track record of elite play to be an elite QB. I'd want him over almost any QB in a big game but for an entire season he's not elite.

 

[DuderinoN703]

You were the one who brought up Flutie, Flutie did play for the Bills, right?

So Plunkett got lucky a couple of times winning 2 SBs by an average of 23 pts but Eli didn't get lucky winning 2 by an average of 3.5 where he needed a team to drop an INT and a ball to stick to a helmet in the first one and a sure handed Welker to drop a critical pass in the 2nd one. Please explain.

Coincidentally Plunkett's two Super Bowl years were 2 out of 3 total seasons where he had good stats. Every other year his stats were mediocre to poor. Was he lucky? Every QB is.

 

[nyjunc]

Coincidentally Plunkett's two Super Bowl years were 2 out of 3 total seasons where he had good stats. Every other year his stats were mediocre to poor. Was he lucky? Every QB is.

AGAIN, his stats were fine for that era which is why he had similar amounts of top 10 finishes as Eli. He's not a HOFer, he doesn't belong and neither does Eli right now. Eli can change that by playing high level seasons going forward, we'll see.

 

[DuderinoN703]

AGAIN, his stats were fine for that era which is why he had similar amounts of top 10 finishes as Eli. He's not a HOFer, he doesn't belong and neither does Eli right now. Eli can change that by playing high level seasons going forward, we'll see.

I'll eventually study the other QBs in his era to see how they match up. His stats are **** and if the other QBs in his era's stats are also **** and they're in the HOF, hell, put him in there too. Why not?

 

[nyjunc]

he's not a HOFer but he wasn't a bad QB- just like Eli.

 

[DuderinoN703]

he's not a HOFer but he wasn't a bad QB- just like Eli.

Check this out

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/39439/eli-manning-puts-spotlight-on-jim-plunkett

 

[DuderinoN703]

An interesting take by a fan

No hurry, but considering where we are in the season, and who's left standing, I think it's a relatively interesting point that I haven't heard brought up prior to my doing so this evening.

Plunkett is worth the discussion, but I'm not sure it's more relevant since he's been retired for 25 years.

.500 career win %.
52.5% passer
sub 70 rating
7.0 YPA
34 more INTs than TDs in his career.
Never once started a full season for the Raiders, save for the strike-shortened 1982 season.

In his best season, 1983...
10-3
60.7%
2935 Yds
20/18 TD/INT
7.7 YPA
82.7 Rate
10.0 Sk%
5.1 Adjusted Net YPA

2 Super Bowls gave him a small piece of discussion, but his numbers, even when adjusted for era, just never added up.

http://footballpros.com/showthread.php/10525-QBs-with-multiple-Super-Bowl-victories...