Second Round Trading Down - What's the real story?

[ITS!MATEO]

why would you think that MATEO? we run a zbs where you have to be athletic and able to get to the second level and lock on to your man and steer him where you need him to go.

go re read the draft reports. his weekness is getting to the second level and locking on his man. slow getting off. last thing you need for a zbs lineman. he is a power block scheme ot, period. plus, we already have an LT and moses would be a newby on the rt side. hickey wasnt going to do a project and close his eyes and hope for the best [see jeff ireland]. he feels he couldnt make mistakes rebuilding this line and the players he chose for the line HAD TO FIT THE SCHEME and had played the position. he was NEVER going moses. here is what one scouting report noted on him..... .




how exactly does he fit the zbs mateo? he is a HORRIBLE fit in our scheme. every trait an o-lineman needs in a zbs scheme are his WEAKNESSES!! they were never going moses weather james was there or not.


kuonandjio was even worse. many wanted him to but but he is sloooow getting off. one mags scout said he was often so slow getting into his block it was like he didnt know the snap counts. slow footed and not good at getting to the second level [most mags said that]. NOT a fit at zbs. PRO FOOTBALLS DRAFT MAG report said, "slow off the snap. to often choppy sliding into pass protection as if he doesnt know the snap count leading to all kinds of problems dealing with speed rushers. kick slide is short and sloppy and gets beat around the edge. ". doesnt get any worse for zbs scheme lineman. he was not getting chosen either. again, hickey made the right choice.... by NOT taking him.

people just keep ignoring the scheme we run. its not a plug and play like the big ugly meet balls are in a power scheme. you have to be athletic, get off the line and into the next level FAST and lock your man. like moses, he didnt come close to meeting what benton wants. people should appreciate that we have a staff now who THINKS. WHO ARE PRECISE and have a PLAN. ireland never got that. he never brought in guys that fit the scheme and thats why this line was so up and down all the time culminating in last years melt down. they are now bringing in guys who fit. and if you look at the scouting reports on james and turner and the TE lynch, they ALL share the same traits........., excellent feet. able to mirror defenders. quick of the snap. able to get to the second level quick and steer their man. athletic and tough.

thats NO coincidence. that was the plan and they got the guys who fit the scheme. if you go by what we needed and how hickey handled this draft, its a B+++. if a person is sore because we didnt take the players people wanted and expected, its a bust. but i will say again, this is going to go down as THE draft that was ground zero for the new era of the miami dolphins.

I think Lazor liked him seeing as he coached him up in his offense. I guess we can agree to disagree on him not being a zbs ol because he was pretty damn good in the UV zbs offense. Best player on their Oline...

And I meant Moses over Turner in the 3rd, not Moses over James...

 

[PhinsTD]

Before the Miami Herald report a few weeks that Miami rated James as a 1st rd OT here's the percentage of people who saw James as better than Martin- zero. Before the Barry Jackson story came out iirc I saw one guy mention James as a potential Dolphin's 1st rd pick, in a trade down to squeeze some value out of the reach. I'm not a big fan of the Mosely pick either, but I think that Newsome was spot on wth the OT position in the draft this year. martin is a better player tha James, bottom line. At Tackle, at Guard, and Center, take your pick. He's better at run blocking, better at pass blocking and people like to sound smart by talking about his arm length when they're all of one inch shorter than Taylor Lewan's.

My best guess is that James will be for Miami what he is and what we need at RT- solid and steady. Imo we should have traded down if he was the targets, the contrary arguments don;t interest me. The target at #29 and below was Brandin Cooks, then Johnny Manziel. The market was there for an easy extra 3rd, we didn't take it. Then we traded a 4th to take an athletic LT to play OG. I'm ok with the draft, I'm ok with James, but bottom line we could have had the same draft and EASILY added OG Trai Turner, a true Guard, and WR Martavis Bryant to the haul. That's not as much wishful thinking as obvious realities- a couple of teams were looking to drop a 3rd quicker than panties on prom night and the trade up to get Billy Turner struck me as unecessary. Billy Turner struck me as a very talented but raw Tackle to be given a year or two to mature, not a player to move to Guard. We'll see what happens, but personally I would have drafted Trai Turner over Billy Turner, especially if filling a need at OG was my goal.

I absolutely think James will make a better RT than Martin. Martin is a G or a below-average LT and I've never understood the love for him as a T. He's a G. A very good G, but a G nonetheless, and a projection to G to boot. Ju'Wuan James is not a projection and I actually believe to be a very solid player.

I also had Billy Turner as a 2nd round player, and said as much prior to the draft. Trai was another player I really liked though.

 

[jim1]

I absolutely think James will make a better RT than Martin. Martin is a G or a below-average LT and I've never understood the love for him as a T. He's a G. A very good G, but a G nonetheless, and a projection to G to boot. Ju'Wuan James is not a projection and I actually believe to be a very solid player.

I also had Billy Turner as a 2nd round player, and said as much prior to the draft. Trai was another player I really liked though.

And why is Zack Martin a Guard? Because he starred at Notre Dame as a Tackle and was almost universally rated as an outstanding Tackle? Because he's great at pass blocking and is a dominating run blocker? Because having a physical Tackle who consistently wins battles at the LOS is a bad thing? Because he's 6-4 1/2 and 310 lbs? Because his arms are all of one inch shorter than Taylor Lewan's? I think not. As to Trai Turner, imo he's the Guard that got away in the draft, a big, strong and mobile pure Guard that would have been a plug and play starter day one.

 

[Roman529]

There were probably several guys that would still there be there after a trade down, hence the extra picks.

 

[normaniii]

how? can you explain why he is the better player? what exactly makes him the "better player"?

compare the scouting reports for either the draft mags, both the strengths and weekneses. and like you said, james is the better fit for our scheme so doesnt that makes JAMES the better player?

james traits are feet, kick slide, ability to mirror defenders and sealing off the end rush. also getting into the second level fast and locking on to his man and steering him where he wants to to go.

dont know where you got that report but i would throw it in the trash and NEVER use it again. a couple mentioned he is a better pass blocker than run blocker at this point but he is a capable run blocker and its not that he is bad at it.

PRO FOOTBALLS DRAFT MAGreport on kouandijp said, "slow off the snap. to often choppy sliding into pass protection as if he doesnt know the snap count leading to all kinds of problems dealing with speed rushers. kick slide is short and sloppy and gets beat around the edge. ".

thats the guy you want? he fits the zbs? take everything the mags say about kouandijo and its the polar opposite for james. i will let you go do the scout research and strengths on james.

Just because James is a better fit for our ZBS, does not mean he is a better player than CK, just IMO means he was a better fit for us.

I think CK has far more upside and before combine and injury reports was considered a top 10 pick, whereas JJ before combine and media hype was considered a 4th round pick.

IMO JJ is the best pass-blocking RT this year not named Jake Matthews. That's why we drafted him. We will run a pass orientated scheme.

If I was running a power running offense I would take CK.

The difference I feel between the two is that CK has far more upside than JJ.

I like the pick though, just hate the fact we did not trade back and pick up an extra 3rd.