Serious question for the anti-Tannehill crowd

[finjim]

Here's an interesting stat for you:

We were top 10 in scoring defense, the other 9 teams in the top 10 in scoring defense averaged 11.4 wins. Besides us the Cardinals were the only team with less than 11 wins at 10.

The year before very much the same story, we were top 10 in scoring defense and again had the worst record of the other top 10 teams.

Under Coyle we are 5th in scoring defense with only the Seahawks, 49ers, Bengals and Panthers ahead. And those other teams all protect the defense somewhat with good running games.

Every time I think of our defense from last year, I think of that Panthers game. 4th and forever and they let them pick it up. Cost us the game and a playoff spot. But nobody talks about that game. They harp on the last 2. If we win that Carolina game, last 2 didn't even matter.

 

[roy_miami]

Every time I think of our defense from last year, I think of that Panthers game. 4th and forever and they let them pick it up. Cost us the game and a playoff spot. But nobody talks about that game. They harp on the last 2. If we win that Carolina game, last 2 didn't even matter.

Every time I think about that game what I remember are the 6 times Wallace was wide open behind the defense for easy TDs. That game should have been over long before that 4th and 10.

 

[Austin Tatious]

You gotta love the alliance between trolls and Dolphin fans that are haters, who need to try to tell everyone how much smarter they are than everyone else. If you are a hater, that's got to leave a sour taste in your mouth to realize that you've disproportionately let your hate and attempts to show off your unparalleled brilliance rise to the level that you've now saddled up next to trolls from fans of other teams. Bravo, if that's what you've become and that's what sports are about for you.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Every time I think about that game what I remember are the 6 times Wallace was wide open behind the defense for easy TDs. That game should have been over long before that 4th and 10.

Including the game winner that he dropped.

 

[finjim]

Fact is, if the defense stops that LOOOOOONG 4th down play, the game was over. Period.

 

[DolfanISS]

Every time I think of our defense from last year, I think of that Panthers game. 4th and forever and they let them pick it up. Cost us the game and a playoff spot. But nobody talks about that game. They harp on the last 2. If we win that Carolina game, last 2 didn't even matter.

Yes and we scored a whopping 16 points in that game, I remember. Again if we came closer to the league average of 23 we win.

 

[Austin Tatious]

Yes and we scored a whopping 16 points in that game, I remember. Again if we came closer to the league average of 23 we win.

The league average of points against the Panthers was 23? i thought they had a better D than that. That's surprising. Nevertheless, the Miami D did **** up at the critical time.

 

[nick1]

Carolina only gave up 15 a game. #2 in the nfl in scoring defense

 

[jvw]

I don't consider myself a anti-RT guy, I just call it the way I see it...if he played poorly I will say it, no excuses for the QB....what I want to see him do is play well in big games, play well when the team isn't playing well, play well enough to win a game to get us in the playoffs....last yr Buffalo game is stuck in my mind....he missed several wide open receivers throughout the game....I kept waiting for him to put together a drive or make a big play late in the game to spark the team and he misfired consistently...that was a classic game were I wanted to see my QB step up and make a play to spark the offense that was playing poorly in a big situation and it didn't happen what made it worse was he followed that up with a piss poor performance at home against the Jets....

I think he has Played well in a big game already, now I need to see him win a game to get us in the playoffs and win a game when the team isn't playing well then I will say we got our guy.....He doesn't have to throw for over 5000 yds or 50 TD just lead this team to the playoffs, IMO this is next step to becoming our Franchise

 

[jvw]

Every time I think of our defense from last year, I think of that Panthers game. 4th and forever and they let them pick it up. Cost us the game and a playoff spot. But nobody talks about that game. They harp on the last 2. If we win that Carolina game, last 2 didn't even matter.

The last two matter because we did lose the Carolina game, Carolina went to the playoffs and were a better team than us but we played them tough....Buffalo and the Jets were sub 500 teams going no where and we were a better team than them and we lost them both when the playoffs were on the line.....if Carolina was the last game of the season and kept us out of the playoffs then we would be talking about it.....

 

[PhinFan1968]

To be fair, raw yards and touchdown passes don't tell the whole story. Part of the reason he had so many yards and touchdowns is that our team couldn't run the ball very well and rarely even tried.

Of course, this also begs the question, would he fare better if he actually had a running game? *several heads explode*

Right. They don't tell the whole story, and that's because it's a TEAM sport. As another poster said, either in this thread or another, "no matter if they know better or not, people relate overall record mostly to the QB." Doesn't jive.

Tannehill's performance last year was in the face of defenses that KNEW he was going to pass...KNEW we couldn't run the ball...KNEW what was being called sometimes before the O line did...KNEW our entire O lineup couldn't pass-pro.

If you can seriously consider him sub-par/below-average with all that considered, you're beyond help. No, he's not Peyton, or Drew, or Aaron, but some will continue to say he sucks unless he can mirror their performance.

I expect about a 90+ QB rating, 4300 yards, 30 TDs and the same or less INTs this year, also expect to still have to defend my opinion of him against Dolphin "fans" next off-season.

 

[PhinFan1968]

Fact is, if the defense stops that LOOOOOONG 4th down play, the game was over. Period.

Ya, but RT detractors will only point out stuff like sliding 1 yard short of a first down on third down, but won't recognize the impact of that 4th down pick-up for the Panthers...unless there was some way to also blame that on RT...

 

[njFinsForever]

I am pro tannehill, but I would like to see him avg a little over 2 TDs per game (32-36 total). With our defense, that would equate to a successful season, ie playoffs.

Eli and Flacco prove you don't have to be elite to win a Super Bowl. You just need those moments in big games where your QB wills the offense down the field and there is very little that can be done to stop him. We haven't seen that yet from Tannehill, but he is just entering year three, and I will still have hope until he proves otherwise.

 

[phintim]

Going back to drafting RT out of Texas A&M I never understood the logic of bringing both the QB RT and his head coach Sherman from basically the same losing college program to the Dolphins. Logically how can someone expect that combo to win at the NFL level if it is not getting it done at the NFL level. Sherman himself did not recognize or promote RT to the QB position for wide reciever until his junior year. So as a optomist in the RTcamp you could only hope you had a diamond in the rough in RT and that as he matured his level of play might match his talent. What has happened with his tenure with the Dolphins so far has not surprised me in terms of his performance because Ryans mentor Sherman has been on the same team until this year. We are about to see "who" Ryann T. really is. Either the QB whose growth was being retarded by his coach Sherman or the QB whose real issues were being covered up by his friend Sherman to keep his job.

So to answer your question Ryan T wins or looses me this year now that Sherman is gone. I am not totally optomistic because if RT was a good QB at the NFL level he should have shined as really QB at the college level and we never saw that. Still I am hopefull because I am tired of the rebuilding projects.

 

[WVDolphan]

OK, this is exactly why I started this thread.

You say his performance is sub par. He is rated in the 20's you say. Let's look at that....

Yards last year, 10th in the NFL
Yards per game, 13th
TDs, 13th

24 Tds, 17 INT, 60.4% comp. 3913 yds.

No way that equals a 20 rated QB, unless you just say so.

Numbers don't lie. You as a math teacher should know that better than anybody.

I was not using my opinion on his mid 20s ranking. That seems to be the area he is most often ranked when these polls are taken outside of FH.

I could educate you on some mathematics if you would like. You are taking those raw numbers and not analyzing anything. Finishing 10th in total passing yards does not make Tannehill the 10st best QB. If you and I go out to a driving range and agree to a competition, would it be fair to say I am better at driving a golf ball if my drives total 6000 yards and your drives totaled 5000 yards? What if I told you I hit 30 golf balls and you hit 20?

If you are choosing to apply 3rd grade level mathematics, then yes, 2 > 1 and Tannehill is the 10th best QB. However, if you would like to actually apply some more advanced math to the situation then you can start with considering the fact that Tannehill had a very high number of drop backs as compared to the NFL average. This is called skewing the data. Tannehill's high yardage totals are quite skewed.

Also, 24 TDs is not an incredible number. I have not seen the complete list but, I am betting that a few less would pull him down significantly on the list whereas he would have to double that total to get to the top of the league in that category.

But, all of that requires complex thinking and your interest is simply in whatever information can be used to suggest Tannehill is a better than average player at his position. If there were a raw number that does not favor your opinion, you would be more than willing to use more advanced math in that circumstance. Take 8-8 for instance. That number needs a ton of variables thrown in there to consider things such as OL and offensive coordinator dosent it?

The fact is that when you take ALL of the information and consider ALL of the variables, it adds up to Tannehill having been a sub-par QB to this point in his career. Whether he becomes what you believe he is will be seen soon enough.