Serious question for the anti-Tannehill crowd

[finjim]

I was not using my opinion on his mid 20s ranking. That seems to be the area he is most often ranked when these polls are taken outside of FH.

I could educate you on some mathematics if you would like. You are taking those raw numbers and not analyzing anything. Finishing 10th in total passing yards does not make Tannehill the 10st best QB. If you and I go out to a driving range and agree to a competition, would it be fair to say I am better at driving a golf ball if my drives total 6000 yards and your drives totaled 5000 yards? What if I told you I hit 30 golf balls and you hit 20?

If you are choosing to apply 3rd grade level mathematics, then yes, 2 > 1 and Tannehill is the 10th best QB. However, if you would like to actually apply some more advanced math to the situation then you can start with considering the fact that Tannehill had a very high number of drop backs as compared to the NFL average. This is called skewing the data. Tannehill's high yardage totals are quite skewed.

Also, 24 TDs is not an incredible number. I have not seen the complete list but, I am betting that a few less would pull him down significantly on the list whereas he would have to double that total to get to the top of the league in that category.

But, all of that requires complex thinking and your interest is simply in whatever information can be used to suggest Tannehill is a better than average player at his position. If there were a raw number that does not favor your opinion, you would be more than willing to use more advanced math in that circumstance. Take 8-8 for instance. That number needs a ton of variables thrown in there to consider things such as OL and offensive coordinator dosent it?

The fact is that when you take ALL of the information and consider ALL of the variables, it adds up to Tannehill having been a sub-par QB to this point in his career. Whether he becomes what you believe he is will be seen soon enough.

Sherman was absolutely terrible. Surely you admit you were dead wrong about that boob? Not a boss.

 

[WVDolphan]

To be fair, raw yards and touchdown passes don't tell the whole story. Part of the reason he had so many yards and touchdowns is that our team couldn't run the ball very well and rarely even tried.

Of course, this also begs the question, would he fare better if he actually had a running game? *several heads explode*

Would the running game fair much better if Tannehill were a more effective passer? Would hitting Wallace at a higher clip on deep throws open up more rushing lanes?

It works both ways. When you make one area of the offense stronger, the other areas are affected by that and become stronger to a degree as well.

It works the same with offense and defense too. The more turnovers your defense creates, the more scoring opportunities your offense gets. The more points your offense can generate, the more opportunities your defense gets to create turnovers by having the opposition in obvious passing situations.

For that reason, when you consider that our defense was 8th in the league in points allowed last season, that is an outstanding job. The defense did that despite the fact our offense gave them few opportunities to play with multiple score leads and often put them in bad field position situations. IMHO, the defense was slightly better than 8th in the league and the offense was slightly worse than what it finished ranked in points scored. When you have a defense that good it creates opportunities for your offense and yet the offense failed to capitalize.

 

[WVDolphan]

Fact is, if the defense stops that LOOOOOONG 4th down play, the game was over. Period.

Fact is that if Tannehill had just connected on a couple of deep throws that game would have never been within reach for Carolina. In fact, if we had put some points up early, Wallace would not have been open so many times because the Panthers would have made sure they had plenty of help deep, which in turn would have opened everything up for the Phins underneath and in the running game. Being ahead multiple scores, the defense could have pinned it's ears back and completely destroyed Cam Newton, causing a bunch of turnovers and leading to even more Phins points. Phins could have won that game going away.

 

[finjim]

Fact is that if Tannehill had just connected on a couple of deep throws that game would have never been within reach for Carolina. In fact, if we had put some points up early, Wallace would not have been open so many times because the Panthers would have made sure they had plenty of help deep, which in turn would have opened everything up for the Phins underneath and in the running game. Being ahead multiple scores, the defense could have pinned it's ears back and completely destroyed Cam Newton, causing a bunch of turnovers and leading to even more Phins points. Phins could have won that game going away.

And if Wallace could catch a ball that was in his hands, goes both ways.

 

[Roman529]

Very simple.

What does he have to do to get you to believe in him?

Playoffs? QB rating? Yards? TDs?


What will it take to get you to admit he is a good QB?

Or are you holding him to a SB win?

Cause Dan never won one. And he was pretty decent.

I am kind of neutral and taking a wait-and-see approach. It's not entirely his fault he struggled at times last year and was sacked so often due to a crappy O-line. I want to see him hitting Wallace and Hartline when they are open 30 yards downfield. At times he looks like a franchise QB and other times not so good. So time will tell if he is our franchise QB.

 

[mialuv13]

Preface: huge Tannehill supporter for a lot of reasons.

Consistency is what he needs. It's tough to judge what a QB can do based on statistical number crunching. It's those intangibles. It's those moments where he makes a game changing play or when he facilitates an offense to step on an opponents neck when defense makes a big stop to put them in good field position. He has those flashes a lot, but not enough to put the team on his back every week. Yes, the state of the team has somewhat been in disarray for a while now, but a good field general does a lot to mask deficiencies on the offense. Yes, it's really really hard to play the QB position with a dinosaur OC and a shoddy O-line. But at some point he has to be known for something more than being sacked an inordinate amount of times because his O-line is miserable and there is no run game in sight to use as a misdirection on offense.

He has to do more of everything he does right, he has to do it more consistently, he has to do it more in clutch moments, and he has to just be better every week. The stats will follow if he is able to elevate not only himself but also the team around. He doesn't have the greatest team around him and he seemingly (and quite prematurely, considering today is game one in the pre-season) doesn't have an O-line that will keep him upright. So he has to work with Lazor and other offensive playmakers to mask those issues and execute when they are in dire straights.

Being a top level QB is not entirely based on numbers, but based on leadership ability. It's easy to throw numbers around like, Tannehill has 5 fourth quarter comebacks in his career, same as Kaepernick and Dalton yet they're not rated as badly as Tannehill. Or, Tannehill was 26th in QBR last season while Christian Ponder was 20th, thus Ponder is a better quarterback. Everyone who is an avid sports fan usually gets that stats don't paint a full picture and also understand that stats usually rack up for quarterbacks specifically who play on all-around good to great teams. But, it's the QB who will get observed under a microscope because he touches the ball on every play when on the field.

This season, regardless of the deficiencies that may arise around him, will most likely mark his ascent into the solid starters in the league, or it will tag him as that guy who couldn't make up for his team's problems. I for one see him excelling half-way through the season and continuing on...I just hope the team, the coaches, the organization and the fans haven't quit on him by that point.

 

[mwestberry]

I went on a couple of rants last season and kept getting smart@-- answers from many who took the time to answer.

The points scored vs. the points allowed is where the rubber meets the road. Thill MUST find a way to win consistently. So if it's the o-line, personnel or the scheme our coaches need to FIX IT NOW! Thill has the ability to be more than he has shown period and I believe he will as soon as the coaches get their heads out of their respective @==es.

The defense played well and their stats show they were formidable much of the season. That said we watched many a team beat us down by continuing to run down our throats seemingly at will, catch a much needed pass when the time was right etc. We did not have the consistency we needed when it mattered AND we could not dictate the opposing team to get out of their game plan in order to win.

Once again I will say ...
Our team had NO identity
Our scheme sucked
Our coaches showed little or no leadership

Love my Dolphins but really need these areas FIXED. As for Thill would love to see a FIERY attitude with a dose of "do what it takes"....but it really starts with leadership, scheme and players that fit the scheme on BOTH sides of the ball.

Ladies and gentlemen...start your hatin'

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The fact is that when you take ALL of the information and consider ALL of the variables, it adds up to Tannehill having been a sub-par QB to this point in his career.

No it doesn't. You and the rest of the haters will never get it through your skulls that it was the OFFENSE that was subpar and the QB was the best part of it. The blocking and running game were much much worse. The play calling was much much worse. The QB play was better than the receiver play over all. How do I know that? Because the team added to the OL, receiver corp, and running backs and replaced the OC in the offseason and stood pat on the QB.

Find me the posts or articles bashing the Dolphins for wasting draft picks and free agent money on OL, WRs, and RBs that weren't needed. If the QB was the biggest problem, wouldn't those complaints be easy to find?

By all means, continue to look at the obvious and ignore it.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Would the running game fair much better if Tannehill were a more effective passer? Would hitting Wallace at a higher clip on deep throws open up more rushing lanes?

Not if they weren't playing with safeties up in the first place. And I don't believe they were. We were running into favorable defenses and SUCKING AT IT.

 

[finjim]

you gotta admit Sherman was a scrub WV, at least be a man and admit that much.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Very simple.

What does he have to do to get you to believe in him?

Playoffs? QB rating? Yards? TDs?


What will it take to get you to admit he is a good QB?

Or are you holding him to a SB win?

Cause Dan never won one. And he was pretty decent.

I'm a Pro-Tannehill guy. With him at the helm Miami needs to make the playoffs. Period.

 

[enigmatics]

No it doesn't. You and the rest of the haters will never get it through your skulls that it was the OFFENSE that was subpar and the QB was the best part of it. The blocking and running game were much much worse. The play calling was much much worse. The QB play was better than the receiver play over all. How do I know that? Because the team added to the OL, receiver corp, and running backs and replaced the OC in the offseason and stood pat on the QB.

Find me the posts or articles bashing the Dolphins for wasting draft picks and free agent money on OL, WRs, and RBs that weren't needed. If the QB was the biggest problem, wouldn't those complaints be easy to find?

By all means, continue to look at the obvious and ignore it.

Oh please. That's far too over-simplified. You really believe that if they privately thought Tannehill was an issue or was struggling they would look to replace him? Do you know how large of a white flag that would wave to the fans who are barely hanging on as it is?

There is no way in hell they would admit their mistake if they internally thought Tannehill "might" not be the guy. Regardless of what how they perceive him, at this stage they're all in and the only thing they could do is attempt to better the team and coaching staff around him in hopes he puts it all together.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Oh please. That's far too over-simplified. You really believe that if they privately thought Tannehill was an issue or was struggling they would look to replace him? Do you know how large of a white flag that would wave to the fans who are barely hanging on as it is?

There is no way in hell they would admit their mistake if they internally thought Tannehill "might" not be the guy. Regardless of what how they perceive him, at this stage they're all in and the only thing they could do is attempt to better the team and coaching staff around him in hopes he puts it all together.

Total bullsh!t. Brandon Weeden was drafted 14 picks later and he is GONE. Teams move on WHEN THE QB IS THE ISSUE.

If the OL wasn't the primary issue, they don't blow the whole thing up. It is hugely risky to replace nearly the whole OL. That just isn't done unless the situation is desperate. They don't bring in a new RB to compete for a starting position. They don't fire the OC. Are you really suggesting that this was all done to hide Tannehill's struggles? WTF? If none of those were serious issues, they bring the same team back with much more minor tweaks. They build depth for the future. They look a couple of years out. That is not what happened. They are literally rebuilding the offense around the QB because they sucked.

The Tannehaters are unreal. I'm amazed at the willingness to ignore reality in a ridiculous attempt to bash their team's QB.

 

[SuperMarksBros.]

I'll reserve judgement until the guy gets some decent pass blocking. That said, we've heavily invested in the o-line over the last 6 years, too much to ask for it to be effective?

 

[DuderinoN703]

even w/o the penalty we have the ball at the TB 45 w/ time for another play or 2 to get into FG range. we got the ball at the same yd line that Ryan got it at except Geno had :34 seconds and trailed by 2, Ryan had 1:42 and trailed by 3. Ryan was an a MUCH easier spot but couldn't get the job done.

you couldn't beat TB, Tb was 0-8 at midseason when you lost to them and of course Ryan had numerous chances in the 4th qtr and the OL wasn't an issue that night.

As pathetic as it was to lose to TB, the Dolphins had 2 yards rushing on 14 carries. The defense allowed 140 yds on the ground to juggernauts like Brian Leonard, Bobby Rainey, and Mike James.