Shelby Arrested / Suspended

[Danny]

See bold.

There's absolutely cases where cops need to be on alert. You pull over a vehicle with Secret Service tints playing loud music with the aroma of marijuana seeping from the cabin, by all means, definitely profile and be on alert. But when you pull over someone with a "baby on board" sticker and a car seat in the back of a Toyota Camry, why are you approaching with your hand on your gun and being forceful to exit the vehicle? True story BTW.

Every institution is a microcosm of society, there are good and bad people EVERYWHERE, there's no reason to believe that the police force is any different. However, they hold more power than most organizations and too many of them use it forcefully and unnecessarily. One of my long time friends is a police officer (God complex) and so is my uncle; right there one out of two is a walking problem on the street.

I'll say there's bad people everywhere, good I don't know about, I know every situation is different but when you see a kid or even a baby in the car you can't assume that the adults in the car are not doing anything wrong. I've seen cars with kids in it that are full of drugs and guns. I agree the cops need to be careful when kids are in the car but kids in the car are not a guarantee that Everything is ok.

 

[roy_miami]

Thank you SOS. So tell the family of a killed officer to "chalk it up to bad luck" That is an absolutely ridiculous statement

They didn't say "chalk it up to bad luck" in those words but that is essentially what the families of the killed officers said in the aftermath. Basically, nothing changed in the way the police handle themselves in the aftermath of the murder spree. Most people realize where there is a will there is a way, no matter how prepared police try to be if there is a psycho with a gun that wants to kill some of them it'll happen. Around here its highly illegal to be walking around on the streets with guns, the guy knew police would be called, he knew he'd be able to "hunt" and ambush them based on their sirens and lights on their vehicles, and he was very good with a rifle. There is no possible way to keep police or anybody else 100% safe from a psycho like that in a free society.

So let me ask you this: In that case where they smashed the window and tazed the guy do you think the police are safer after that or more in danger? What about the community? I would say everybody, including the police in that community is in more danger now, not less. The police are supposed to make everybody safer, they are clearly failing.

 

[truedolfan57]

What makes you think the police and community are in more danger?

 

[NYPhinzFan]

I'll say there's bad people everywhere, good I don't know about, I know every situation is different but when you see a kid or even a baby in the car you can't assume that the adults in the car are not doing anything wrong. I've seen cars with kids in it that are full of drugs and guns. I agree the cops need to be careful when kids are in the car but kids in the car are not a guarantee that Everything is ok.

There is no black and white in these debates (no pun intended). Sure there are people with baby seats that are running drugs across state lines, but the 1% chance this happens shouldn't make this the paradigm for police officers. I wouldn't want to be treated like a gangbanger when I'm part of a routine traffic stop just because I'm brown. Now if you see me driving crazy, bumping loud music with a Yankee fitted cap low over my eyes and I look suspicious and menacing, I could clearly see why you would profile me IMO; just being brown is not a reason.

P.S. I'm only using race as an easy example here for all those that want to have a heart attack that I "played the race card" :rolleyes2:

 

[truedolfan57]

There is no black and white in these debates (no pun intended). Sure there are people with baby seats that are running drugs across state lines, but the 1% chance this happens shouldn't make this the paradigm for police officers. I wouldn't want to be treated like a gangbanger when I'm part of a routine traffic stop just because I'm brown. Now if you see me driving crazy, bumping loud music with a Yankee fitted cap low over my eyes and I look suspicious and menacing, I could clearly see why you would profile me IMO; just being brown is not a reason.

P.S. I'm only using race as an easy example here for all those that want to have a heart attack that I "played the race card" :rolleyes2:

See, that 1% is exactly the reason cops should take every measure to protect theirselves 100% of the time. Because that one time they don't, could be the time they get in trouble. As a minority myself, if pulled over, I have no issue of a cop walking up to me with his hand on his pistol.

A little more backstory I read about this particular situation, the guy wasn't being cooperative because there was a warrant out for his arrest. He put those kids in danger.

 

[truedolfan57]

Also, this guy wasn't treated like a gangbanger for a traffic stop.

 

[roy_miami]

What makes you think the police and community are in more danger?

The police forces actions (or the suspects) have exacerbated relations between the police and the majority of an entire race of people, as a result of that tensions are higher on both ends, I think its natural to assume when tensions are higher things become less predictable. In fact, wasn't there a mini riot right after that video emerged? That seems to be pretty good evidence things are indeed less safe in that community.

 

[truedolfan57]

The police forces actions (or the suspects) have exacerbated relations between the police and the majority of an entire race of people, as a result of that tensions are higher on both ends, I think its natural to assume when tensions are higher things become less predictable. In fact, wasn't there a mini riot right after that video emerged? That seems to be pretty good evidence things are indeed less safe in that community.

And you think that's the police forces fault? That this guy wouldn't cooperate? People need to take responsibilities of their own actions. Rioting with violence is just plain dumb and only the fault of the people rioting.

 

[dlockz]

The police forces actions (or the suspects) have exacerbated relations between the police and the majority of an entire race of people, as a result of that tensions are higher on both ends, I think its natural to assume when tensions are higher things become less predictable. In fact, wasn't there a mini riot right after that video emerged? That seems to be pretty good evidence things are indeed less safe in that community.

African americans with a much greater percentage have much less trust in the police and its based on history of police not treating minorities fairly. Even when police are caught doing wrong many times nothing has been done so its a a frustrating situation. I was pulled over 8 times in a month for visiting a cousin that's bi racial. The cops continually pulled me over because they have been programmed to think that any white coming into a neighborbood is buying drugs. As for te seatbelt stop my issue really has nothing to do with the guy that is not getting out of the car its the disregard that a professional law enforcement office has that risks children for no reason. Many have said that its the man being arrested fault but last I checked citizens don't take an oath to protect and serve. They are not trained professionals that should know better.

 

[roy_miami]

And you think that's the police forces fault? That this guy wouldn't cooperate? People need to take responsibilities of their own actions. Rioting with violence is just plain dumb and only the fault of the people rioting.

Considering this is the third time that specific officer has been involved with excessive force against minorities I'm inclined to lean towards yes, the police are at least partially at fault.

 

[truedolfan57]

Don't think you need to be trained to have common sense and do what law enforcement tell you to do, if it's within reason.

 

[truedolfan57]

Considering this is the third time that specific officer has been involved with excessive force against minorities I'm inclined to lean towards yes, the police are at least partially at fault.

I agree, doesn't look good on that particular cop, but regardless of that, I'm not sure what else any other cop would have done. The video only showed the last 3 minutes of them asking him to get out, for 13 minutes. I guess they could have just sat there for hours.

 

[dlockz]

Don't think you need to be trained to have common sense and do what law enforcement tell you to do, if it's within reason.

So if children are around the officers don't have a responsibility to take their safety into consideration and don't tell me about the officers fearing for their own safety since they had already put their guns away.
breaking a window had nothing to do with protecting the officer, if they were in such fear for their safety they would have kept their guns on the suspect and not waited 13 minutes.
If your a kid your just a casualty of war if your parents don't comply.

 

[roy_miami]

Don't think you need to be trained to have common sense and do what law enforcement tell you to do, if it's within reason.

One of the couples that sued over being beat by that officer said they did follow instructions, got out of the vehicle and were beat on anyway. An African American actor from The Wire was on Real Time recently and he said he is literally afraid for his life over what should be mundane traffic stops, the police had guns drawn and ordered him to exit the vehicle. Over a traffic stop. With his family in the car. There are no common sense arguments as far as I'm concerned.

 

[truedolfan57]

So if children are around the officers don't have a responsibility to take their safety into consideration and don't tell me about the officers fearing for their own safety since they had already put their guns away.
breaking a window had nothing to do with protecting the officer, if they were in such fear for their safety they would have kept their guns on the suspect and not waited 13 minutes.
If your a kid your just a casualty of war if your parents don't comply.

Don't think breaking a window will kill a kid in the back seat, or even harm them enough to put them in danger. I would say, as an adult, I'd rather listen to the cops and move away from the children, than to stay in the car and let things heat up.

And no, at the time they broke the window, they weren't in fear of their life. They wanted the man to get out because they had no idea who he was. And since he wasn't complying, I think it's safe to say he had something to hide.