Shoot Down the SD trade Rivers Rumors

Rich22

Phin DieHard!
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
7
Heard on the SD radio this morning that SD can't trade Rivers because it would be a cap killer according to the guy. Said that 14 mil would jump into their cap this year if he is traded before June 1. If they waited it would be 7 mil for this and next year which wouldn't make any sense. They quoted AJ SMith as saying he was untradeable.

Not sure if anyone can confirm but it would make sense since he got a huge bonus. While alot of people are hyping SD I personally think the Rivers pick was very bad although they did rob the Giants of their picks. IF Rivers had the talent they would have traded Brees. When you get the #4 pick in the draft as your QB of the future you give him 1 year to learn at the most. You are paying too much. Having him sit another year just shows how bad a pick that was.

IMO SF takes a QB - not doubt about it. They need one about as bad as any team has ever needed one. Rattay is terrible. I'm also convinced we will trade down. People will want the remaining QB or Edwards.
 

BlueFin

Seer of Visions
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
18,212
Reaction score
2,652
Location
Weeki Wachee, Florida
That may be true, however San Diego was like 20 million under, it seems to me they could absorb the hit this year and be free of it next year, but I'm not certain of all their numbers.

I look at it this way, they are going to have to trade one of their QB's eventually unless they just let Brees go to free agency after this year.
 

burger13

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
6,287
Reaction score
14
Location
South Jersey
Rich22 said:
While alot of people are hyping SD I personally think the Rivers pick was very bad although they did rob the Giants of their picks. IF Rivers had the talent they would have traded Brees. When you get the #4 pick in the draft as your QB of the future you give him 1 year to learn at the most. You are paying too much. Having him sit another year just shows how bad a pick that was.
Phillip Rivers sitting has NOTHING to do with him. PERIOD. Drew Brees is the reason that Rivers isn't playing. He played at a level last year which made it impossible for the Chargers to do anything but stick with him.....that goes for next year too. You just don't ship out a QB who played like that no matter who you have sitting behind him.

Saying that Rivers was a bad pick because he's not playing yet is just ignorant. :shakeno:
 

Kucha

Pro Bowler
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Washington, DC
Yea, I just looked at the ESPN site and it does confirm that he did sign a 14 mil + signing bonus last year. Actually, it's 14.25 mil.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=1866132

Still, Rich22 is right about SD being 20 mil under the salary cap...and with most big free agents already signed, they would still have 6 mil to sign their own draft picks/players if they opted to trade Rivers. That may not be enough (with 2 or 3 1st rounders) but they could go ahead and sign Brees to a long-term contract extension which would free up even more space for them. Brees was signed to the Franchise tender which is about 8 or 9 mil I believe.

This trade could still happen.
 

rafael

Hall Of Famer
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Messages
6,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Sparks, NV
I don't agree that it would be a cap killer. The reason I doubt this trade is that I think Rivers is AJ Smith's guy. I believe he would trade Brees before Rivers.
 

burger13

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
6,287
Reaction score
14
Location
South Jersey
The trade is possible from a cap perspective.....but there's is also the matter of the actual bonus money which must be paid out.

They gave Rivers $14 million last year.....now they are going to trade him for the #1 pick and have to give that a player an even bigger bonus, say around $16 million (probably more), then have to sign Brees to an extension (another $15 million). Not to mention that they have the 12th and 28th picks in the first round (around another 6-8 million).

That's over $50 million in signing bonuses that they would have to commit to to make this thing work.......HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!
 

Phishstix

Finheaven's Fattest Pimp
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
172
Location
VA
rafael said:
I don't agree that it would be a cap killer. The reason I doubt this trade is that I think Rivers is AJ Smith's guy. I believe he would trade Brees before Rivers.
Brees is Smith's guy, Rivers is Schottehiemer's guy.
 

TeeMoney

Kid A
Finheaven VIP
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
2,586
Reaction score
999
Location
Planet Telex
I assume, because of your signature picture, that you like Smith for Miami. There are some on these boards that would crap a squirrel if Saban chooses Smith, because he would be developed this year under Feeley/Frerotte. Would he be worth the 2nd pick (like Rivers was worth the 4th)? Then some would say why use a top 5 pick this year for a player you would trade in a year or two, and wind up with 2 mid 1st round picks? When you could get an elite playmaker at any other position?
 

Kucha

Pro Bowler
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Washington, DC
burger13 said:
The trade is possible from a cap perspective.....but there's is also the matter of the actual bonus money which must be paid out.

They gave Rivers $14 million last year.....now they are going to trade him for the #1 pick and have to give that a player an even bigger bonus, say around $16 million (probably more), then have to sign Brees to an extension (another $15 million). Not to mention that they have the 12th and 28th picks in the first round (around another 6-8 million).

That's over $50 million in signing bonuses that they would have to commit to to make this thing work.......HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!
Well you got a point there. SD's organization has been quoted as the penny pinching type in the past...I hadn't thought of that. They pay their assistants poorly (similar to Minnesotta) which gave us the opportunity to sign Hudson Houck away...so, 50 mil may be a bit much for them in the end. Still, this is not impossible. The Redskins seem to pay out that type of money every off-season (except this one).
 

Rich22

Phin DieHard!
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
7
burger13 said:
Phillip Rivers sitting has NOTHING to do with him. PERIOD. Drew Brees is the reason that Rivers isn't playing. He played at a level last year which made it impossible for the Chargers to do anything but stick with him.....that goes for next year too. You just don't ship out a QB who played like that no matter who you have sitting behind him.

Saying that Rivers was a bad pick because he's not playing yet is just ignorant. :shakeno:
I couldn't disagree with you more. You pick a QB as your top pick and give him 14 mil guess what - he plays!! Or your GM should be fired! Brees was the QB of a team that played a last place schedule in the worst division in football and won the division - yippee! 5 years and what. Contract year he plays better - big deal. IMO it's more of a reflection on Rivers inability than Brees. IF Brees was so good they would have signed him long term. They didn't - why?? You want to rank their offensive players? It's LT and then Gates and then Brees. That's how good he is. IMO Rivers was a low 1st or early 2nd rd pick until the Senior Bowl and hype shot him up the board. Given that Big Ben was taken a few picks lower I'd say Rivers was taken a bit high. Seeing he didn't even play and will not this year AGAIN is a big WASTE of cap money!! Your saying it's okay to waste a #1 pick in the whole draft and 14 mil for a guy who is just going to sit on the bench is ignorant. :shakeno:
 

fishypete

FinHeaven Elite
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
14,928
Reaction score
21
Age
68
Location
N.P.R. Florida
BlueFin said:
That may be true, however San Diego was like 20 million under, it seems to me they could absorb the hit this year and be free of it next year, but I'm not certain of all their numbers.

I look at it this way, they are going to have to trade one of their QB's eventually unless they just let Brees go to free agency after this year.
I Agree Blue....his basic cost for the next two years would be a steal for the Niners and SD could easily afford the cap hit.
 

nando03

Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
1,653
Reaction score
60
Age
37
Location
Alexandria, VA
KuchaMucha said:
Yea, I just looked at the ESPN site and it does confirm that he did sign a 14 mil + signing bonus last year. Actually, it's 14.25 mil.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=1866132

Still, Rich22 is right about SD being 20 mil under the salary cap...and with most big free agents already signed, they would still have 6 mil to sign their own draft picks/players if they opted to trade Rivers. That may not be enough (with 2 or 3 1st rounders) but they could go ahead and sign Brees to a long-term contract extension which would free up even more space for them. Brees was signed to the Franchise tender which is about 8 or 9 mil I believe.

This trade could still happen.
They could sign Brees to a contract extension but they don't want to cause they want to make sure that this year wasn't a one hit wonder. They want to make sure he can be consistant before they sign him to a big contract. How great would it have been for SD if they signed him to a long term big money contract based on this past years performance and then he played like the old Brees. The Brees that no one in SD wanted and was being compared to Ryan Leaf. Well, after the first 3 years of Brees career I wouldn't sign him to that extension unless I knew what I had. For this reason I think that SD will keep Rivers as their back-up at least through this season coming up till Brees shows he can play at that same level 2 years in a row.
 

burger13

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
6,287
Reaction score
14
Location
South Jersey
Rich22 said:
I couldn't disagree with you more. You pick a QB as your top pick and give him 14 mil guess what - he plays!! Or your GM should be fired! Brees was the QB of a team that played a last place schedule in the worst division in football and won the division - yippee! 5 years and what. Contract year he plays better - big deal. IMO it's more of a reflection on Rivers inability than Brees. IF Brees was so good they would have signed him long term. They didn't - why?? You want to rank their offensive players? It's LT and then Gates and then Brees. That's how good he is. IMO Rivers was a low 1st or early 2nd rd pick until the Senior Bowl and hype shot him up the board. Given that Big Ben was taken a few picks lower I'd say Rivers was taken a bit high. Seeing he didn't even play and will not this year AGAIN is a big WASTE of cap money!! Your saying it's okay to waste a #1 pick in the whole draft and 14 mil for a guy who is just going to sit on the bench is ignorant. :shakeno:
First thing first.....I said that the reason you gave for saying that Rivers is a big bust is ignorant. I'm not saying that he isn't a bust.....I actually argued against him a lot on these boards last year.....but to give him not playing over Brees as the reason was dumb.

Brees had an AMAZING year last year.......I know that he isn't the best player on that offense.....but how many peope would be?? Peyton Manning, maybe.....not many offensive players in the league better than LT and not many better at their position than Gates.....that's hardly an indictment of Brees.

Rookie QB's sit in this league.....that simple. Sure some play, but a lot sit. Eli sat early, Ben only played when he did because of injury, Palmer sat, Vick sat, Pennington sat. You say that it's ignorant to pay the big money for a draft pick then not play him.......but there was a lot of grumbluing around the league when Marvin Lewis handed Plamer the job over Kitna this year, based soley on where he was drafted....and not grumbling from fans....but NFL people, former players, etc.

Players shouldn't play based off of draft position, bonus money, or salary......the coaches are going to play the guy who gives the best chance to win. Maybe if Rivers was in camp.....he could have shown enough to win the job then.....but he wasn't and Brees never gave a second chance for the coaching staff to even consider a change.

They are in a good situation now, not a bad one where they have 2 very valuable palyers at the league's premier position.....so how exactly was the pick a bust????
 

fins54

Scout Team
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
293
Reaction score
0
This subject was on Sirius radio on the NFL channel just about an hour ago. They had draft guy from San Diego, don't know if he is part of the organization or like a Mel Kiper type guy. He said that the rumor was basically ridiculous. There is no way that S.D. would give up Rivers to the Niners because he is better than any player they could draft. Plus he mentioned, why would the 49'ers want to give up so much to move into the top spot that no one really wants. Also it would be a huge cap hit to the S.D. Chargers.

Both commentators on the show agreed with him and just wanted someone with some clout to stop the "biggest" rumor that is floating around the NFL right now.
 

Rich22

Phin DieHard!
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
7
burger13 said:
First thing first.....I said that the reason you gave for saying that Rivers is a big bust is ignorant. I'm not saying that he isn't a bust.....I actually argued against him a lot on these boards last year.....but to give him not playing over Brees as the reason was dumb.

Brees had an AMAZING year last year.......I know that he isn't the best player on that offense.....but how many peope would be?? Peyton Manning, maybe.....not many offensive players in the league better than LT and not many better at their position than Gates.....that's hardly an indictment of Brees.

Rookie QB's sit in this league.....that simple. Sure some play, but a lot sit. Eli sat early, Ben only played when he did because of injury, Palmer sat, Vick sat, Pennington sat. You say that it's ignorant to pay the big money for a draft pick then not play him.......but there was a lot of grumbluing around the league when Marvin Lewis handed Plamer the job over Kitna this year, based soley on where he was drafted....and not grumbling from fans....but NFL people, former players, etc.

Players shouldn't play based off of draft position, bonus money, or salary......the coaches are going to play the guy who gives the best chance to win. Maybe if Rivers was in camp.....he could have shown enough to win the job then.....but he wasn't and Brees never gave a second chance for the coaching staff to even consider a change.

They are in a good situation now, not a bad one where they have 2 very valuable palyers at the league's premier position.....so how exactly was the pick a bust????
I agree rookie QB's sit most of the time - tough position to learn. HOWEVER when you draft a guy #1 in the whole draft basically for SD he better play soon. I don't give a rats what their cap situation is - you don't pay a guy 14 mil and have it hit your cap while he sits not 1 but 2 years. Now that is DUMB. 1st year - makes sense. 2nd year - bad pick. If he has not proved himself enough to be given the keys to the team when you make him the #1 pick in the draft you blew the pick IMO. I'm sorry but Brees is not that good - c'mon.
I agreed with what Lewis did in Cincy. He did exactly what should have been done. You draft a guy that high he is your future. You DON'T sit him for 2 years! You made a commitment when you drafted him that he is your future. If it doesn't work out then IMO it's a bad pick - that is my point.

Your comment about "Players shouldn't play based off of draft position, bonus money, or salary" is the reason the NFL is so much better than the NBA or MLB. When a guy is making big money and he can't even start or isn't playing up to his salary level guess what - he is cut. You have to get value from your players because there is a cap. What you are saying is great in an ideal world or MLB where there is no real cap and the contracts are guaranteed. Sorry but this is the NFL which like they say stands for Not For Long when you don't play up to your contract. AND you can't when you are on the bench. I'm sure alot of teams can afford a 14 mil clipboard holder - hey maybe he can hold for the kicks. What a deal. I'm sure SD couldn't have used Roy Williams, Larry Fitzgerald or one of the other WR's in the 1st rd. Sean Taylor probably wouldn't have helped them either. Nope you are right - they are better off with a 14 MIL dollar backup - GOOD PICK - my bad!
 
Top Bottom