Should Fins Switch Back to a 3-4 Defense? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Should Fins Switch Back to a 3-4 Defense?

finfanatic13

finfanatic13

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With the likely departure of one or both Soliai and Starks to free agency and the fact that many feel Dion Jordan would make for a better linebacker than DE, would it be wise of the Fins to switch back to a 3-4 defensive scheme? It just seems to me that we have many "pieces" on the front seven that are either a.) playing out of position or b.) not playing as much due to depth. Here are a couple thoughts:

1. If we resign Soliai, why not move him to nose tackle? He played well there a few years back and definitely has the size for it.
2. You allow Wake and Vernon to be your two DE's with Odrick rotating both at DT and DE. This would be my only concern...could a vernon/soliai/wake line hold up or would they be a little too small in size?
2. Dion Jordan plays well in coverage...so let him! Plus you get him on the field and hopefully in this second year, he will produce more in terms of QB pressures and sacks.
3. Phillip Wheeler is trash, so his spot would be taken by either Jordan or Misi. Problem solved there. The sooner he is off the field, the better.
4. Danelle Ellerbe came from a primarily 3-4 system in Baltimore with the Ravens. Perhaps we could get better results from him and that large contract of his?
5. I would love to have C.J. Mosely if he is still on the board. BPA and a position of need? Sign me up. I think a MLB combo of Ellerbe and Mosley would help tremendously in helping the atrocious run defense and the fact that we can not cover tight ends to save our lives (which Jordan would also help with). Plus the kid has a winning pedigree and the "high character" and "hard working" kind of guy this regime seems to like.


Just to clarify:

A front 3 of: Vernon/Solia/Wake with Odrick Rotating
A LB 4 of: Jordan/Ellerbe/Mosley/Misi

What do you guys think? Would switching to a 3-4 scheme maximize the existing talent we have and improve our defense?
 
finfanatic13 said:
2. You allow Wake and Vernon to be your two DE's with Odrick rotating both at DT and DE. This would be my only concern...could a vernon/soliai/wake line hold up or would they be a little too small in size?
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Wake and Vernon are way too small to be 3-4 DEs. When we ran a 3-4, Wake was an OLB.
 
Regardless of the consensus here, there is a 0% chance we go to 3-4 next season. Moreover, Kevin Coyle did an excellent job with this defense last season and they were consistently competitive. Our defense was at least average to excellent in 13 out of 16 games. And when you consider the production we got out of our secondary with Reshad Jones playing terrible and a bunch of back-up CB's next to Grimes, you have to applaud the coaching and scheming.
 
I think they're committed to running the 4-3...we need to stop drafting 3-4 players. Vernon is a tweener that would have been good as a 3-4 OLB and so is Jordan. This whole roster was freakin compromised by Ireland. We've got such a mix of players that are better fits in other schemes than the one we're trying to run it's ridiculous.
 
Depends on the kind of 3-4. Wade Phillips' version of the 3-4 is essentially a one gap scheme not unlike a 4-3, only with different gap assignments for the front seven. The traditional idea of a 3-4, with linemen two gapping up front, is not used all that much any more. And where it is it's generally only used on early run downs. Those teams almost always switch to a four man front against the pass to get more speed on the field, and the difficulty in staffing those two separate personnel groupings -- which are radically different from each other -- has led to more and more teams scrapping the traditional 3-4 for either the Wade Phillips variant 3-4 (I don't know if he invented it but I associate it with him) or a four man front.

Long story short, I'd be fine with the Wade Phillips version. It's has success everywhere he's been. I don't think going to a traditional 3-4 would be smart, though.
 
funniest thing i read about a 34 switch was the stuff about philip wheeler as a olb earlier when someone brought it up...:lol:
 
TheWalrus said:
Depends on the kind of 3-4. Wade Phillips' version of the 3-4 is essentially a one gap scheme not unlike a 4-3, only with different gap assignments for the front seven. The traditional idea of a 3-4, with linemen two gapping up front, is not used all that much any more. And where it is it's generally only used on early run downs. Those teams almost always switch to a four man front against the pass to get more speed on the field, and the difficulty in staffing those two separate personnel groupings -- which are radically different from each other -- has led to more and more teams scrapping the traditional 3-4 for either the Wade Phillips variant 3-4 (I don't know if he invented it but I associate it with him) or a four man front.

Long story short, I'd be fine with the Wade Phillips version. It's has success everywhere he's been. I don't think going to a traditional 3-4 would be smart, though.
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It's had success everywhere he's been for about a year or two and then it starts to tank faster than a Buddy Ryan punch to Kevin Gilbride's chin.

His first year in Houston they gave up 17.4 ppg, last year 20.7, this year 26.8...granted the defense was compromised by the offense this year but it's the same everywhere he's been. First year as HC of Buffalo his defense was pretty good...by the time he got fired it was trash. Same thing in Dallas...first year very good and then downhill from there.
 
I think we focus too much on formations here, 3-4 vs 4-3 and such. The more important thing is what role the players have within a formation, and what tech each individual player plays.
 
datruth55 said:
It's had success everywhere he's been for about a year or two and then it starts to tank faster than a Buddy Ryan punch to Kevin Gilbride's chin.

His first year in Houston they gave up 17.4 ppg, last year 20.7, this year 26.8...granted the defense was compromised by the offense this year but it's the same everywhere he's been. First year as HC of Buffalo his defense was pretty good...by the time he got fired it was trash. Same thing in Dallas...first year very good and then downhill from there.
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Because he's not a very good coach, especially as a head coach. The scheme itself works, though. I mean, even as recently as his last season with San Diego his defenses were still good (after spending three years there). That 2006 Chargers team went 14-2 and gave up the seventh fewest points in the league.
 
Yes this team would be a lot better as a 3-4 IMO.

Resign Solai as NT and draft a late round developmental NT. Odrick and either a veteran or a mid round rookie as the other end, Jordan can finally be at a position that suits his potential. Ellerbe would actually be a better player in a 3-4. Wheeler just blows, Mosley out of Alabama would easily replace him.

So yes this D would improve as a 3-4, but that doesn't mean it can't get better as a 4-3.
 
I dont think Wake and Vernon can play DE in a 3-4 they are too small...it would have to be Odrick/Soliai and another BIG DE. Our LBs would be all messed up because i dont think Misi can play ILB in a 3-4, and we have too many OLBs (Wake, Jordan, Misi, Wheeler) and only 1 true ILB in Ellerbe. I would HATE to waste a top pick on LB considering we have so many other holes. If we can maybe trade a Misi for a DE that plays 3-4 and bring in Brandon Spikes, that would be good.We would still have to rotate Wheeler, Jordan and Wake if Wheeler can even play 3-4 OLB.
 
gdiaz0358 said:
I dont think Wake and Vernon can play DE in a 3-4 they are too small...it would have to be Odrick/Soliai and another BIG DE. Our LBs would be all messed up because i dont think Misi can play ILB in a 3-4, and we have too many OLBs (Wake, Jordan, Misi, Wheeler) and only 1 true ILB in Ellerbe. I would HATE to waste a top pick on LB considering we have so many other holes. If we can maybe trade a Misi for a DE that plays 3-4 and bring in Brandon Spikes, that would be good.We would still have to rotate Wheeler, Jordan and Wake if Wheeler can even play 3-4 OLB.
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Wake would be an OLB in a 3-4. That's what he was when we ran a 3-4 under Mike Nolan. Vernon would start as an OLB but I think he actually has some potential as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 (on the strongside, with Ellerbe moved to the weak side and Wheeler moved off the team). Certainly that's what Vernon would have to become long term, as Jordan would be penciled in as the OLB opposite to Wake.
 
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