Slimm's 2013 Position Rankings

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Landry Jones and Barkley sure lost some money staying another year didn't they? And to think some wanted us to bypass last years impressive QB draft to wait for a shot at Barkley.

I'm not sure some wanted to bypass last year's QB class as much as they would've preferred Miami just stop winning meaningless games in order to secure a legitimately elite quarterback in Andrew Luck. As it was, Miami could've had the DROY at #8.

Barkley certainly lost money by coming back, but he's still the same quarterback, which is pretty damn good. He should have no problem coming in and throwing more INT's than TD's inbetween batted down passes if that's the standard you're insinuating he live up to.

 

[WVDolphan]

Keep em coming Dr Slimm. I know I wasnt the only person awaiting this thread.

Quick question. What do you think of this kid from BYU at DE?

Im not a big combine guy, but I have to say Im intrigued after watching him do drills. Seems like a project, but at 12 this could be a great pick for us. He could provide immediate help rushing the passer on 3rd downs opposite Cam Wake, but could totally replace him in 2-3 years when he developes his complete game. Vernon and this kid could be a great book end of the future for the phins. Is he a JPP type who came into the league with raw skills and amazing physical ability that can develope into one of the leagues best DEs?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

What do you dislike about Ertz? Very interested to hear your views, I keep hearing there isnt much between Ertz and Eifert.

It's a little bit of what I like more about the guys ahead of him than what I dislike about Ertz. Although his extremely short arms combined with his lack of vertical eliminates him as the type of seam threat, and mismatch in the passing game that a guy like Eifert brings. There's plenty between Ertz and Eifert. Couple that with the fact that as many as 6 TE's ran better than he did and I believe a 3rd round grade is about right.

I don't have as high a grade on Ertz as I had on Fleener or Dwayne Allen last year.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Keep em coming Dr Slimm. I know I wasnt the only person awaiting this thread.

Quick question. What do you think of this kid from BYU at DE?

Im not a big combine guy, but I have to say Im intrigued after watching him do drills. Seems like a project, but at 12 this could be a great pick for us. He could provide immediate help rushing the passer on 3rd downs opposite Cam Wake, but could totally replace him in 2-3 years when he developes his complete game. Vernon and this kid could be a great book end of the future for the phins. Is he a JPP type who came into the league with raw skills and amazing physical ability that can develope into one of the leagues best DEs?

I like him. He actually tests out better than Pierre-Paul in every single category. But he's a little bit different type of player. I like his ability to by physical at the POA. He's more of a stack-and-shed playmaker as a DE, probably the best stack-and-shed DE I've scouted. I'm not going to call him the next JPP because JPP exceeded any expectations that anyone had. He's good enough to be the #2 DE on my board.

Ansah has impressed me at every opportunity, particularly the position drills you're talking about. The interesting thing is that for a player that I believed played so physical at the POA, I actually thought he rushed the passer better on film from a 2-point stance. Reminds me of Willie McGinnest.

 

[fininpsl]

Safe assumption that you don't watch much SEC football? If not, here's a thread from way back where I talked about Chris Gragg. Personally, I've been extremely intrigued by this kid since he was a sophomore.

Don't let that 6'3", 245 pound frame fool you. He's one of the best blockers at the position in this class, despite being the best athlete of the tight end group.

Just scroll down a few posts on the first page here...

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/sho...Seniors)&highlight=slimm's+underrated+Seniors

Nope. You pegged me right. Outside of my Canes, I don't catch lots of other college games, SEC or otherwise. Just don't have the time really. Thanks for taking the time to go into more detail about Gragg, and linking to your prior assessment of him. On the surface it would seem he fits the mold of what the Fins front office was hoping they would get out of Egnew.

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I would agree totally with your WR list (well, the first 4 rounds - after that I haven't looked at a lot of guys)

Vance McDonald drops the ball way too much for the love he's getting, imo.

I like Gragg too, as I've posted before. While he's a better blocker than Clay - better all-round player, I doubt we would be tempted unless we maybe offloaded Clay for a low pick.

 

[WVDolphan]

I like him. He actually tests out better than Pierre-Paul in every single category. But he's a little bit different type of player. I like his ability to by physical at the POA. He's more of a stack-and-shed playmaker as a DE, probably the best stack-and-shed DE I've scouted. I'm not going to call him the next JPP because JPP exceeded any expectations that anyone had. He's good enough to be the #2 DE on my board.

Ansah has impressed me at every opportunity, particularly the position drills you're talking about. The interesting thing is that for a player that I believed played so physical at the POA, I actually thought he rushed the passer better on film from a 2-point stance. Reminds me of Willie McGinnest.

Yea, those position drills impressed me. I had not watched much BYU. After seeing the way he dominated those drills and looked so fluid and natural doing so, I went back and watched some BYU footage. This kid impresses me. I try to stay away from highlight footage for obvious reasons. I like watching straight up game play instead.

Im starting to think more and more this is who I would take at 12 if he fell to us. Ive become really impressed with Keenan Allen the last couple of weeks because he seems like such a pure route runner and is very physical for his size. I would not complain about adding a WR at 12, but it has seemed like a reach to do so the whole time. I think thats a deep position in this draft and with Bailey likely to be on the board in the 2nd or 3rd round, Id like to get a DE or DB at 12. However DB seems pretty deep in this draft as well.

Just the fact that this kid has not played as much football as other prospects makes it even more tempting. If he continues to get better drafting him could mean having one of the best DEs in the league for many years.

 

[BlueFin]

I'm not sure some wanted to bypass last year's QB class as much as they would've preferred Miami just stop winning meaningless games in order to secure a legitimately elite quarterback in Andrew Luck. As it was, Miami could've had the DROY at #8.

Barkley certainly lost money by coming back, but he's still the same quarterback, which is pretty damn good. He should have no problem coming in and throwing more INT's than TD's inbetween batted down passes if that's the standard you're insinuating he live up to.

I think most had him top 5 or so last year (Barkley)...I doubt he'll go top ten now, which is what I was referring too. Many on this site wanted us to bypass Tannehill to "Bite for Barkley" this year...I'm glad we didn't.

I don't see Ertz slipping to round 3 in today's NFL, the demand for tight ends has never been higher.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Yea, those position drills impressed me. I had not watched much BYU. After seeing the way he dominated those drills and looked so fluid and natural doing so, I went back and watched some BYU footage. This kid impresses me. I try to stay away from highlight footage for obvious reasons. I like watching straight up game play instead.

Im starting to think more and more this is who I would take at 12 if he fell to us. Ive become really impressed with Keenan Allen the last couple of weeks because he seems like such a pure route runner and is very physical for his size. I would not complain about adding a WR at 12, but it has seemed like a reach to do so the whole time. I think thats a deep position in this draft and with Bailey likely to be on the board in the 2nd or 3rd round, Id like to get a DE or DB at 12. However DB seems pretty deep in this draft as well.

Just the fact that this kid has not played as much football as other prospects makes it even more tempting. If he continues to get better drafting him could mean having one of the best DEs in the league for many years.

It's the physicality that Ansah plays with despite being new to football that I perceive to be a little rare. Pierre-Paul was raw and new to football too, but he wasn't nearly this physical at USF. The athleticism speaks for itself, but it's the attitude and willingness to compete so physically that's a little bit of a special quality for this kind of prospect.

 

[hoops]

there's no doubt ansahs physical...the size is great the measurables great...i think he tested more explosive than i see on tape...but that pass rush raw is an understatement...when he's nullified i see no counter...you stone him and he just waits for the action to come his way...i just can't get down with the pass rush upside enough...

i might end up eating my words on that one but it's just what i see...the ability to get to the qb and beat a solid tackle at the pro level bothers me

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Inside Linebacker

1. Alec Ogletree* - 2nd round

2. Jonathan Bostic - 2nd round

3. Michael Mauti - 3rd round

4. A.J. Klein - 3rd round

5. Manti Te'o - 3rd round

6. Kevin Reddick - 4th round

7. Kevin Minter - 4th round

8. Steve Beauharnais - 5th round

9. Jonathan Stewart - 5th round

10. Nico Johnson - 5th round

11. Tom Wort* - 5th round

12. John Lotulelei - 6th round

13. Brandon Hepburn - 7th round

14. Will Compton - 7th round

15. Cameron Lawrence - 7th round

16. Bruce Taylor - 7th round

17. Jake Johnson - UDFA

18. Greg Blair - UDFA

19. Demetrius Hartsfield - UDFA

20. Marvin Burdette - UDFA

21. Dan Molls - UDFA

22. Will Ebner - UDFA

 

[hoops]

by the way wv allens route running and burst for his size is very good...not many guys can run that clean routes and have that fluid looking hips in a big bodied wr...he plays smart to me also...and he's got red zone win abilities...very polished

rumor is he may not run at his pro day either...which means he'[s probably gonna get into round 2 i'd say...what a steal...if he runs anywhere in the 4.4's i'd pounce at #12...low 4.5's i'd probably still...depends on free agency but we come out of it without a big name wr i see no reason this kid should not be getting a hard look with that top pick...depth of the wr class or not...this kids first round top 20 worthy talent

 

[hoops]

Inside Linebacker

1. Alec Ogletree* - 2nd round

2. Jonathan Bostic - 2nd round

3. Michael Mauti - 3rd round

4. Manti Te'o - 3rd round

5. A.J. Klein - 3rd round

6. Kevin Reddick - 4th round

7. Kevin Minter - 4th round

8. Steve Beauharnais - 5th round

9. Jonathan Stewart - 5th round

10. Nico Johnson - 5th round

11. Tom Wort* - 5th round

12. John Lotulelei - 6th round

13. Brandon Hepburn - 7th round

14. Will Compton - 7th round

15. Cameron Lawrence - 7th round

16. Bruce Taylor - 7th round

17. Jake Johnson - UDFA

18. Greg Blair - UDFA

19. Demetrius Hartsfield - UDFA

20. Marvin Burdette - UDFA

21. Dan Molls - UDFA

22. Will Ebner - UDFA

i got to say i love those lbs rankings and the rounds...bostic i think is underrated...like klein...teo severely overrated...ogletree does not show high end instincts for the position at this stage...i think you nailed it

i wonder about mauti being a guy that is viewed as a career special teams player by teams...a glue roster guy but not a long term starter

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Outside Linebacker

1. Jarvis Jones* - 1st round

2. Cornelius Washington - 2nd round

3. Jamie Collins - 3rd round

4. Zaviar Gooden - 3rd round

5. Sio Moore - 3rd round

6. Khaseem Green - 3rd round

7. Arthur Brown - 3rd round

8. Chase Thomas - 4th round

9. Mike Taylor - 4th round

10. Jake Knott - 4th round

11. Sean Porter - 4th round

12. Jelani Jenkins - 5th round

13. Kiki Alonso - 5th round

14. Lerentee McCray - 6th round

15. Gerald Hodges - 6th round

16. Keith Pough - 7th round

17. Daren Bates - UDFA

18. Devonte Holloman - UDFA

19. Sam Barrington - UDFA

20. Kenny Tate - UDFA

 

[WVDolphan]

by the way wv allens route running and burst for his size is very good...not many guys can run that clean routes and have that fluid looking hips in a big bodied wr...he plays smart to me also...and he's got red zone win abilities...very polished

rumor is he may not run at his pro day either...which means he'[s probably gonna get into round 2 i'd say...what a steal...if he runs anywhere in the 4.4's i'd pounce at #12...low 4.5's i'd probably still...depends on free agency but we come out of it without a big name wr i see no reason this kid should not be getting a hard look with that top pick...depth of the wr class or not...this kids first round top 20 worthy talent

Im with you again. Ive been saying Bailey is the best pure WR in the class for months now. However, after doing some study on Allen, man Im starting to debate that in my head enough to backtrack and at least say they are 1A and 1B. The one area that I think puts Allen ahead of Bailey is how he can go over the middle with the same skill. He is just so fluid and understands how to use his own body to give himself the edge over the defender when the ball is in play. Youre right about how smooth he is on breaks with his hips. I dont see a flaw in the kids game. Like Bailey he is a huge win in the redzone. They both have excellent ball skills when its in the air. Both use the boundries like a king. Both of them are great route runners. Both have great hands. Bailey is extremely physical and is underrated in that area because of his size. Again, I think Allen is better over the middle. But, Id give Bailey a slight edge in open field running as far as making people miss.

Speed at WR is so overrated IMHO. Sure, its important. But, it isnt nearly as important as route running and hands. The WR is the one making breaks and the defender is the one who has to react and try to catch up if he gets beat or a guy makes a catch on him. As long as a WR is not slow, his speed is fine. There are only so many times where the lack of 4.3 or 4.4 speed is going to keep a guy from turning a big play into 6 pts. It is nice to have a guy who can run a 4.3 and blow past everyone for a deep ball, but they need WR skills to go with it. Guys who run a 4.5 can still beat you deep. Heck Bailey didnt have a great 40 time but he will still beat people for a deep ball because he is capable of running so many great routes. How quick a guy gets in and out of breaks is more important than top speed.