Slimm's 2017 Linebackers (Seniors)

[j-off-her-doll]

With Reeves-Maybin and Skai Moore missing so much time, I'd be targeting each as potential late-round values. That doesn't mean I'm not looking at LB in RD's 1 and 2, though. DE and LB are the two positions - outside of OL depth - I view as musts. And, Miami should at least be open to doubling up at each.

 

[ckparrothead]

I'm surprised Slimm that you're not higher on Ryan Anderson than you are. Is it because you're not sure on his position value or fit at the NFL level?

Having a little experience following Nick Saban's defenses, it looks to me like Ryan Anderson is a pretty big cog in his defense. He's the guy he has doing the dirty work because he knows he can rely on him for anything, but he's also a guy that is moved around opportunistically and given a chance to shine.

He seems more important in that defense than someone much more vaunted, like Tim Williams, who Saban seems to use like a rotation specialist who doesn't engender a lot of trust.

I mean I agree with you on the talent of Rashaan Evans, and I think in some very real ways Ryan Anderson is a big reason Evans is never on the field. Well, he and Reuben Foster, obviously.

The guy was a 5-star prospect, #19 overall in that class and the top OLB...and he seems like he's really made good on that billing. What am I missing?

 

[Canadi-Phin]

Is Ryan Anderson that undersized DE like Cam Wake? I love all three guys from Bama. SO fun to watch. Always around the ball.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I'm surprised Slimm that you're not higher on Ryan Anderson than you are. Is it because you're not sure on his position value or fit at the NFL level?

Having a little experience following Nick Saban's defenses, it looks to me like Ryan Anderson is a pretty big cog in his defense. He's the guy he has doing the dirty work because he knows he can rely on him for anything, but he's also a guy that is moved around opportunistically and given a chance to shine.

He seems more important in that defense than someone much more vaunted, like Tim Williams, who Saban seems to use like a rotation specialist who doesn't engender a lot of trust.

I mean I agree with you on the talent of Rashaan Evans, and I think in some very real ways Ryan Anderson is a big reason Evans is never on the field. Well, he and Reuben Foster, obviously.

The guy was a 5-star prospect, #19 overall in that class and the top OLB...and he seems like he's really made good on that billing. What am I missing?

I'm pretty high on Ryan Anderson, but not real sure about his position or value at the next level. He's a very system specific linebacker that's not going to be covering anybody. He's a lot like Courtney Upshaw was in Saban's defense, just not quite as good of a prospect in my opinion.

I wouldn't say he's been more valuable than Tim Williams. They've been equally valuable. There's a little bit of a gap in athleticism, explosion, and talent there between the two. But I do think Saban trusts Anderson more because he knows Anderson is just going to "do his job". Which is something Saban preaches. Every player just doing his job and not worrying about doing somebody else's job is vital to the success of Saban's defense. Anytime a team hits Bama with a big play, which isn't very often, it's because somebody didn't just do their job. They were trying to do somebody else's job.

Evans has been learning at both inside and outside linebacker. He's had a lot put on his plate. But the reason he hasn't been on the field is because he was moved to inside linebacker and because of Shaun Dion-Hamilton, who is Foster's running mate on the inside, not necessarily because of Ryan Anderson. But we'll be seeing more of Evans in the playoffs since Dion-Hamilton suffered a season ending knee injury against Florida in the SEC title game.

 

[ckparrothead]

It's probably putting too a fine point on it because there are some very obvious reasons for you to be comparing Ryan Anderson to Courtney Upshaw schematically, but I do see the players themselves as different. Courtney to me always moved like a defensive end whereas Anderson to me has always moved like a linebacker. He has hips like a linebacker, he has the turn ability of a linebacker, and the speed of a linebacker. Upshaw in addition to being purely bigger, whenever he'd run it always had this headlong look to it, and his hips were stiffer on turns, like a defensive lineman. And in pass rush he always struck me as a power rusher. Ryan Anderson hits tackles with speed rushes that I'm not really sure I ever really saw Upshaw execute. That was one of peoples' knocks on him as I recall.

Where do I see Anderson fitting? Again another interesting point to raise because I happen to know that there's some thought in Miami about the defense missing a Sam linebacker that they can have put his hand down and rush the passer from 5-technique or further out, and not have it just be something that is done of necessity but something that is done opportunistically. That seems the role Anderson was born for, so to speak.

The reason I bring up the differences between Anderson and Upshaw is because Anderson's hips, balance and speed give him the ability to play that type of position and succeed. Upshaw was always going to have to be almost purely a forward player if he wanted to succeed. Force him to turn and he's in trouble.

As for Rashaan Evans, my take was that he would absolutely be playing Ryan Anderson's position if not for Ryan Anderson (unless you think they'd play Anfernee Jennings above him?). Just as he would probably be playing Reuben Foster's position if not for Reuben Foster. I ignored Dion-Hamilton in that dynamic because his is a part-time position, but you're right if not for Dion-Hamilton then Rashaan Evans would probably be playing that position. I suppose in that sense, Evans would be playing Tim Williams' part-time position if not for Tim Williams, too.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Takk McKinley is far from perfect, but he causes so much chaos in the backfield. Violent, explosive, fast. He should be on Miami's radar.

 

[ckparrothead]

I had not really focused on Jarrad Davis much other than once in a while taking a few minutes to look at him. The aggression and physicality stood out immediately.

But the more I look at him the more I appreciate that he's a pretty complete player at the position. I honestly believe he could be the guy to watch at pick #22, depending on what they do with the DE position in free agency.

Really any of the three SEC linebackers are all NFL players and Miami would do well with any of them.

 

[ckparrothead]

Charlie Campbell says that Tim Williams failed multiple drug tests at Alabama and is considered to have a Randy Gregory type problem.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Charlie Campbell says that Tim Williams failed multiple drug tests at Alabama and is considered to have a Randy Gregory type problem.

I honestly have no insight as to whether or not this is the case. However, I know you've been around long enough to know that these types of things are put out there by teams all the time in an attempt to get prospects to slide. It's all part of the game teams play. Similar thing happened last year with Reggie Ragland's heart situation, which was known all along but the night before the draft it gets "leaked" that teams are worried about it so the Bills were able to grab him at the top of the 2nd round.

All you have to do is think about it really. If you're a team with this type of information, it doesn't benefit the player or you if all of your 31 other opponents have it also. There's no point. The only way it even makes sense to put it out there is if you're trying to get a player to slide to you. You want other teams to pass him up. It's what happened to Tunsil.

The bottom line is as long as these players pass their drug tests at the combine, that's all that matters. If so, it's simply a nice try by some team later in the 1st round that covets his skills.

 

[Buddy]

Do you guys think Ben Boulware has any future in the NFL? I love the kid but don't know anything about scouting or scheme fit. He's always seemed to be a stud when I watch Clemson play.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[ckparrothead]

I honestly have no insight as to whether or not this is the case. However, I know you've been around long enough to know that these types of things are put out there by teams all the time in an attempt to get prospects to slide. It's all part of the game teams play. Similar thing happened last year with Reggie Ragland's heart situation, which was known all along but the night before the draft it gets "leaked" that teams are worried about it so the Bills were able to grab him at the top of the 2nd round.

All you have to do is think about it really. If you're a team with this type of information, it doesn't benefit the player or you if all of your 31 other opponents have it also. There's no point. The only way it even makes sense to put it out there is if you're trying to get a player to slide to you. You want other teams to pass him up. It's what happened to Tunsil.

The bottom line is as long as these players pass their drug tests at the combine, that's all that matters. If so, it's simply a nice try by some team later in the 1st round that covets his skills.

I definitely am aware of their tendencies this way. I'm not saying I buy it as gospel. It's relevant so I mentioned it. A couple of things I would say though:

1. January 13th is really, really, really early to be engaging in this sort of disinformation campaign. Ideally you either want to throw something out there that CAN'T be vetted (e.g. this guy was a real ass during interviews and threw his teammates under the bus), or you want to throw something out there to where it's too late to verify (i.e. something your doctors found). The sort of information Campbell dropped is actually pretty easy for a team to verify or debunk, especially with enough time, of which there is plenty.

2. Most scouts & coaches do not really operate with this Machiavellian M.O. that the only reason to speak to a member of the press is to give them something that benefits you or your team. I know this firsthand. These are people that work in proximity with one another. They share interests. They develop relationships. They develop friendships. They often love the same things, and therefore love to talk about the same things. Again, I know this literally as well as is possible to know this, because I have upwards of a dozen people that I have relationships and/or friendships with that give me true and verifiable non-public information (about sports). Sometimes they give me information to be nice because we're friends. Sometimes it's just because these people are tired of being stuck in their silos and have a desire to gossip about what they know. It's human nature. NFL people as a rule LOVE to gossip. They need to be actively scared out of it in order to not do it.

As for Tim Williams, it would make a little sense to me. When I've watched him, I've gotten the feeling that Nick Saban plays him like a talent that he respects, but a player he doesn't trust. This would make sense as context for that.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I definitely am aware of their tendencies this way. I'm not saying I buy it as gospel. It's relevant so I mentioned it. A couple of things I would say though:

1. January 13th is really, really, really early to be engaging in this sort of disinformation campaign. Ideally you either want to throw something out there that CAN'T be vetted (e.g. this guy was a real ass during interviews and threw his teammates under the bus), or you want to throw something out there to where it's too late to verify (i.e. something your doctors found). The sort of information Campbell dropped is actually pretty easy for a team to verify or debunk, especially with enough time, of which there is plenty.

2. Most scouts & coaches do not really operate with this Machiavellian M.O. that the only reason to speak to a member of the press is to give them something that benefits you or your team. I know this firsthand. These are people that work in proximity with one another. They share interests. They develop relationships. They develop friendships. They often love the same things, and therefore love to talk about the same things. Again, I know this literally as well as is possible to know this, because I have upwards of a dozen people that I have relationships and/or friendships with that give me true and verifiable non-public information (about sports). Sometimes they give me information to be nice because we're friends. Sometimes it's just because these people are tired of being stuck in their silos and have a desire to gossip about what they know. It's human nature. NFL people as a rule LOVE to gossip. They need to be actively scared out of it in order to not do it.

As for Tim Williams, it would make a little sense to me. When I've watched him, I've gotten the feeling that Nick Saban plays him like a talent that he respects, but a player he doesn't trust. This would make sense as context for that.

NFL people do love to gossip and talk, which is kinda the point. That's why you've heard many a GM through the years say it's never too early to start draft rumors.

I think there has to be some semblance of truth to it first though. In this case, I think it comes across pretty clear as a bit of embellishment so to speak. It's one thing to say a kid may have failed a drug test. But to say a kid failed multiple and throw out a Randy Gregory comparison...that right there tells me it was started by NFL people. Most likely a team.

Again, whether it's true or not I can't say. What I'm saying is, even if it's true it's not really relevant. They know that. Thus the Gregory embellishment. All that matters is that these kids pass drug tests at the combine. That's their pre-employment drug screening. They'll just ask him if he failed drug tests in college and see if he's honest about it. They'll already have verified whether he did or not.

I mean if Tim Williams has a weed problem then so does Cam Robinson using the logic supposed here. Along with probably 3/4 of the prospects in the draft. I think Cam must be high sometimes when he's playing as much as he false starts. I've never seen an offensive lineman cost an offense so many 5 yard penalties as he does.

I know plenty of people associated with Alabama that swear they'd take Ryan Anderson over Tim Williams. Heck I don't blame em either. Anderson breathes fire when he plays and Williams can disappear for stretches. Again, I don't blame em...I'm just not sure I agree with it.

I might agree with it if I was preparing to play a game tomorrow against a top-5 opponent that has a balanced offense. But regarding the draft and projecting to the next level it's a lot closer call than they think.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I definitely am aware of their tendencies this way. I'm not saying I buy it as gospel. It's relevant so I mentioned it. A couple of things I would say though:

1. January 13th is really, really, really early to be engaging in this sort of disinformation campaign. Ideally you either want to throw something out there that CAN'T be vetted (e.g. this guy was a real ass during interviews and threw his teammates under the bus), or you want to throw something out there to where it's too late to verify (i.e. something your doctors found). The sort of information Campbell dropped is actually pretty easy for a team to verify or debunk, especially with enough time, of which there is plenty.

2. Most scouts & coaches do not really operate with this Machiavellian M.O. that the only reason to speak to a member of the press is to give them something that benefits you or your team. I know this firsthand. These are people that work in proximity with one another. They share interests. They develop relationships. They develop friendships. They often love the same things, and therefore love to talk about the same things. Again, I know this literally as well as is possible to know this, because I have upwards of a dozen people that I have relationships and/or friendships with that give me true and verifiable non-public information (about sports). Sometimes they give me information to be nice because we're friends. Sometimes it's just because these people are tired of being stuck in their silos and have a desire to gossip about what they know. It's human nature. NFL people as a rule LOVE to gossip. They need to be actively scared out of it in order to not do it.

As for Tim Williams, it would make a little sense to me. When I've watched him, I've gotten the feeling that Nick Saban plays him like a talent that he respects, but a player he doesn't trust. This would make sense as context for that.

I agree with all of this. As always, more often than not. When opinions or information is relayed it's because somebody feels comfortable with the opinion or information, not because they are trying to sway somebody.

I'd say drug whispers have a decent batting average. On occasions when I've tried to ignore them it's often backfired.

Of course, even if it's perfectly true as of right now the person can right himself quickly, causing the perfectly legit info to later be dismissed as overreaction or bluff.

 

[X-FACTOR]

[/COLOR]

I had not really focused on Jarrad Davis much other than once in a while taking a few minutes to look at him. The aggression and physicality stood out immediately.

But the more I look at him the more I appreciate that he's a pretty complete player at the position. I honestly believe he could be the guy to watch at pick #22, depending on what they do with the DE position in free agency.

Really any of the three SEC linebackers are all NFL players and Miami would do well with any of them.

I know highlight tapes are just that.....highlights. However, his strength and high impact at the point of attack is second only to foster in this draft. He is precisely what we are missing from the seven man front. I see Cunningham mentioned a lot around here and he appears to be good with exception of the arm tackles. His highlights were filled with arm tackles and twisting take downs, Miami has enough line backers that can do that. It's time for a fearsome linebacker that can bring the heat and set the tone at the point.

 

[ckparrothead]

Joseph Jones of Northwestern is a LB to keep an eye on as a UDFA.

Sams at the college level are victims of secular trends. He's a Sam at Northwestern, AND he's more or less a backup/rotator with LB Nate Hall. So that's two strikes against you, the reason you only get 350 snaps in the season.

So snap-hunting for this guy is...not easy.

But it's rewarding. He's visibly more explosive, faster, and even stronger than the guy he played behind Nate Hall. So why does he play behind Hall? First off Hall is a sophomore and developing, and Northwestern seem to be making an investment in him because he's got some potential. Second I think Hall is more versatile in terms of coverage.

But when you get to the NFL, it's not Nate Halls that will populate the #4 through #7 linebacker spots on the team depth chart. The Joseph Jones's will be those guys.

We're talking about a strong guy that can consistently put the likes of a Troy Fumagalli on his heels, easily deals with blockers and offensive linemen, is a good blitzer, has lateral explosiveness and open field running ability, and he's also a well-adjusted human and hard worker. His wife had a baby just before the 2016 season and his coaches and teammates rave about how the guy handles being a new dad and being a football player, working hard at both things.

Then he goes to his pro day and blasts out a 4.50 in the forty, 35" vertical, 10'3" broad jump, 4.22 shuttle and 6.83 cone, 18 bench reps, at 6'0" and 231 lbs.

And that speed was there on the tape. You could see it when he was the one guy on the field that could catch up and overtake Tommy Armstrong as ran up the sidelines to pay dirt, and Joseph did it by crossing just about the entire width of the field to do it. Other defensive backs who are smaller and should be faster were flagging, in give-up mode because they're out-run by Martinez. Jones is still accelerating.

Bottom line, sized and built like a linebacker, run defense and blitz specialist, plays with the strength of a Sam, runs with the speed of a Will, well adjusted hard worker and team guy...perfect UDFA to sign up and man one of your LB depth/special teams spots.