Slimm's 2018 Wide Receivers (Seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 4, 2017.

  1. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    1. James Washington / Oklahoma St. / 5'11", 213 [#45 overall]

    2. D.J. Chark / LSU / 6'3", 199 [#48 overall]

    3. Cedrick Wilson / Boise St. / 6'2", 188 [#52 overall]

    4. Michael Gallup / Colorado St. / 6'1", 205 [#55 overall]

    5. J'Mon Moore / Missouri / 6'3", 207 [#71 overall]

    6. Dante Pettis / Washington / 6'0", 186 [#93 overall]

    7. Marquez Valdez-Scantling / S. Florida / 6'4", 206 [#102 overall]

    8. Daeshon Hamilton / Penn St. / 6'1", 203 [#103 overall]

    9. Andre Levrone / Virginia / 6'3", 226 [#133 overall]

    10. Jester Weah / Pittsburgh / 6'2", 210 [#135 overall]

    11. Darren Carrington / Utah / 6'2", 199 [#139 overall]

    12. Dylan Cantrell / Texas Tech / 6'3", 226 [#142 overall]

    13. Anthony Miller / Memphis / 5'11", 201 [#145 overall]

    14. Allen Lazard / Iowa St. / 6'5", 225 [#147 overall]

    15. Jaleel Scott / New Mexico St. / 6'5", 218 [#152 overall]

    16. Marcell Ateman / Oklahoma St. / 6'4", 216 [#153 overall]

    17. Daurice Fountain / N. Iowa / 6'1", 204 [#180 overall]

    18. Steve Ishmael / Syracuse / 6'2", 210 [#189 overall]

    19. John Diarse / TCU / 6'1", 209 [#198 overall]

    20. Javon Wims / Georgia / 6'3", 215 [#199 overall]

    21. Taj Williams / TCU / 6'4", 195 [#200 overall]

    22. Steven Dunbar / Houston / 6'1", 210 [#211 overall]

    23. Saeed Blacknall / Penn St. / 6'2", 208 [#216 overall]

    24. Linell Bonner / Houston / 6'0", 200 [#217 overall]

    25. Ka'Raun White / W. Virginia / 6'1", 199 [UDFA]

    26. Donald Gray / Mississippi St. / 5'10", 204 [UDFA]

    27. Jordan Villamin / Oregon St. / 6'5", 220 [UDFA]

    28. Allenzae Staggers / S. Miss. / 6'1", 190 [UDFA]

    29. Damion Ratley / Texas A&M / 6'3", 190 [UDFA]

    30. Robert Foster / Alabama / 6'2", 196 [UDFA]

    31. Adonis Jennings / Temple / 6'3", 205 [UDFA]

    32. Josh Stewart / UTSA / 6'4", 200 [UDFA]

    33. Da'Mari Scott / Fresno St. / 6'1", 210 [UDFA]

    34. Mikah Holder / San Diego St. / 6'0", 185 [UDFA]

    35. Garrett Johnson / Kentucky / 5'11", 175 [UDFA]

    36. Jeffery Mead / Oklahoma / 6'5", 195 [UDFA]

    37. Devonte Boyd / UNLV / 6'1", 178 [UDFA]
















    Slot/Return Specialist:

    1. Braxton Berrios / Miami / 5'9", 184 [#218 overall]

    2. Jeff Badet / Oklahoma / 5'11", 183 [#219 overall]

    3. Janarion Grant / Rutgers / 5'10", 180 [UDFA]

    4. Charles Nelson / Oregon / 5'8", 170 [UDFA]

    5. De'Mornay Pierson-El / Nebraska / 5'9", 185 [UDFA]
     
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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Slimm, you've gotta get your eyes on Andre Levrone, Jr. of Virginia.

    Came out of nowhere. Only 25 catches from 2014 to 2016, including only 8 catches in 2016. Even in 2017 you see him subbing off the field a bit and may not even technically be considered a starter. So there's some stuff to be reckoned with as to why Virginia has disliked him and takes him off the field, a lot of times on obvious run downs.

    But I'm watching him block and he looks fine. Better than fine, matter of fact. Whether it's a run or whether he's running a "route" that is really just blocking for a guy underneath, he looks strong and feisty as hell. The substitution pattern is probably just an idiosyncratic offensive tendency thing for Bronco Mendenhall.

    He's 6'3" & 225 lbs (might end up more like 6'2" & 220 lbs at measurement, hard to say).

    But the dude can PLAY. He broke out against the UConn Huskies and then followed it up against Boise State this weekend. I didn't watch his UConn game but I was checking out Kurt Benkert and noticed this guy immediately.

    This is where he first stood out to me:



    That was a pretty nice sell. Looked to me like that corner kind of wanted to sit but couldn't because of the way this 6'3" & 225 lbs man sold the deep fade with his hips and feet.

    Then he follows up with this beauty, which lets you know this guy has some serious speed to contend with (which clearly CB Reid Harrison-Ducros cannot handle):


    (replay)

    Then you watch him knife past two deep defenders (CB DeAndre Pierce and S Kekoa Nawahine) when he had no business doing that...



    Good hands and feet to get beyond the jam, too...



    Oh and he's a standout on punt coverage, of course...

    https://youtu.be/dQsYXO2cRRI?t=6184

    Another underneath catch...

    https://youtu.be/dQsYXO2cRRI?t=6486

    And, of course, the double move...

    https://youtu.be/dQsYXO2cRRI?t=6622
    https://youtu.be/dQsYXO2cRRI?t=6651 (replay)

    The only real chink in the armor on this day against Boise State was that a few plays after that double move catch, he called his own number out of the game with what looked like either a side stitch or a back strain. Never went back in, not even on special teams.
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    This kind of talent doesn't truly come out of nowhere. Here's a play he made with QB Matt Johns in 2014 as a FRESHMAN...on FABIAN MOREAU, no less:



    And then this one on CB P.J. Williams (future 3rd rounder) back in 2014, also as a FRESHMAN:

     
  4. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yes I've seen both games against Boise and UCONN and was a little curious who this kid was and why he's suddenly producing.

    However, it's pretty typical to find these NFL body WR's breaking out later in their career when they finally get a quarterback. Virginia hasn't had any consistency at the QB position in a decade. Benkert was supposed to become the starter at E. Carolina when Shane Carden graduated.

    Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably break him down this week. Looks like a kid that belongs here.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Some work I've done on Andre Levrone:

    This is what little I could find versus William & Mary, first game of the year:

    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Vertical - Catch 34 Yards TD
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay 34 Yard TD Catch

    This is him from the Indiana game in 2017, nice matchup with CB Rashard Fant:

    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Slot - Out Route
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Vertical Route vs Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Deep Vertical vs Press (Rashard Fant) - Incomplete Overthrown
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Route vs. Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Vertical Route vs Press (Rashard Fant) - Incomplete Overthrown (Fant held him)
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Slot - Route vs Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Inside - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Vertical vs Press (Rashard Fant - Gets Hurt)
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Route
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Whip Route - Catch 5 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Vertical (Rashard Fant) - Holding Called
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay Holding Call
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Motion - Route
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Stutter and Go - Incomplete Overthrown
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Curl - Dropped
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Run Block
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Fade Route - Catch 19 Yards

    His game against UCONN.

    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Block for Screen
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Short Out - Catch 5 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Run Block
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Block for Screen
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Run Block
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Route
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Route vs Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Run Block
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Route vs Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Run Block
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Deep Vertical vs Man - Catch 39 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay - 39 Yard Catch
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Scramble Curl - Catch 9 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Run Block (nasty)
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Slot - Corner Route - Catch & Run 73 Yards TD
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay - 73 Yard Catch TD

    This is the subsequent Boise State game:

    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Curl - Catch 9 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay 9 Yard Catch
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Vertical - Catch 30 Yards TD
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay 30 Yard TD Catch
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Vertical - Catch 64 Yards TD
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay 64 Yard TD Catch
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Route vs Press
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Inside - Punt Coverage
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Comeback - Catch 8 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Top - Double Move - Catch 31 Yards
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay 31 Yard Catch

    And this is from when he was a Freshman at UVA, some big plays he made against big names:

    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom Slot - Vertical - Catch 29 Yards TD (Fabian Moreau Coverage)
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay Freshman TD Catch on Fabian Moreau
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Bottom - Fade - Catch 16 Yards TD (P.J. Williams Coverage)
    YouTube Time Stamp LINK: Replay Freshman TD Catch on P.J. Williams
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I have mentioned before when talking about QB Kyle Kempt from Iowa State that to be fair, he's throwing to a couple of studs in the skill unit.

    One of those studs is WR Allen Lazard.

    I've not done much on him to be honest, but from what I have seen of him, it's conceivable I could like him nearly as much as Mike Evans...and Evans was one of my absolute favorites over the last five years.
     
  7. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Lazard was initially my #3 Senior receiver back in May. He's not the beast Mike Evans was. Not really comparable in terms of explosiveness, otherwise he'd already be at the next level. He can't create the separation in and out of breaks that Evans can. However, he's always been a consistent producer throughout his career despite never really having a quarterback, which I like about him. More of a size mismatch that excels at adjusting to mediocre passes than a true vertical threat like Evans.

    The main knock I have with him is he's inconsistent catching the ball and has struggled through it at times. Even McShay commented about it on the sidelines while I was watching Iowa St. play Texas I believe.

    I have a 3rd round grade on him, feel like he grades out similar to how I had Kenny Golladay in last year's receiver class.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Jaleel Scott is extremely impressive.

    I'm not sure I've seen a WR from the senior class that I like better for the NFL than Jaleel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Doni Dowling of UVA also looks pretty good. He's the only one of the WRs last year that gave Jaire Alexander trouble, and he gave Jaire quite a bit of it.

    Somehow UVA manages to have all three of their primary receivers look really good, which you'd normally want to attribute to the quarterback Kurt Benkert, but then there are also a lot of stretches where each of the wide receivers take turns screwing up, and Benkurt takes big stretches of time looking bad as well. There's some sort of disconnect there that's hard to put my finger on. Can't tell if it's too many pro passing concepts for today's college game, too much disruption in the rhythm due to UVA running such an active rotation with skill players, or maybe stretches of bad play calling, or maybe all of the above.

    That offense should be a lot better than it is, judging by the skill sets of Andre Levrone, Olamide Zaccheaus, Doni Dowling, and their QB Kurt Benkert. And it actually reminds me of what's going on with the Dolphins.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    To me, this is one of the most compelling wide receivers in the entire 2018 draft.



    I struggle to think what he does not have; what keeps him from being rated a 1st rounder. He's huge at 6'5" & 215 lbs and yet he runs speed outs from the slot like a much smaller guy. He's got the pure speed to separate deep and is one HELL of a leaper. He Moss's corners on the regular. He finds the holes between zones. He comes back down his stem and works his way back to the quarterback. He is in tune with his quarterback on scramble drills. He plays multiple receiver positions. He's got full body control and coordination. He catches the football on the run without breaking stride or unnecessary jumping. He uses his hands and body to keep the defender in jail and he's probably the most productive deep threat in the country.

    What more is there? I guess I haven't necessarily seen him be a dynamic run after catch guy? He's big, strong, has good feet and balance, and he's physical. It's not as if it takes a whole lot more than that to be a RAC threat.

    He's the wide receiver version of Marcus Davenport.
     
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  11. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    New Mexico St. has a couple of kids that I've felt were fairly underrated, or maybe even unknown the past couple years...most notably Jaden Wright, Terrill Hanks and Jaleel Scott.

    Scott just has a unique set of physical tools for the WR position. Simple as that. I think pretty highly of him as a prospect.

    However, there's a couple of things things that I view as "incomplete" in terms of his evaluation and cloud my projection of him to the next level pending further evidence. I've watched him closely the past 2 years.

    The first is I want to see how he's able to deal with press coverage on the outside. He doesn't see that in the Sun Belt. Even games versus bigger competition, defenses prefer to give him a big cushion because of his height and speed.

    Secondly and as you alluded to, he hasn't yet demonstrated explosive RAC skills on any consistent basis. I think defenses prefer to play him in front because they feel they can make the tackle on him in space based on film. As opposed to fear of missing a jam on him and having a 6'6" receiver with straightline speed running by their average college DB's who lack top recovery speed. Most college DB's have no experience pressing, much less in the Sun Belt.

    I'd like to see him not let the ball into his body as much as he does, and lastly...he only has one year of significant production.

    What he has shown is the ability to make big plays and flash talent. Lining up at multiple receiver positions and showing the ability to work for his quarterback are huge positives. He kinda reminds me a little of Brandon Coleman coming out of Rutgers, who was also probably the best deep threat in the country.

    Essentially, I just need to see how he deals with press coverage from top DB's, attack the ball more with his hands and be less of a body catcher, and show some sizzle with the ball in his hands.

    Hopefully he can put some of this on display in an All Star setting. Which can take him from an interesting prospect with some questions, to a bonafide stud that you wonder how you're going to deal with every week in the NFL.

    Personally, I have him as a top 150 player as he sits. But these are critical questions I need to see him provide answers to in order to boost my confidence in his projection.
     
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  12. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Gallup is my favorite Sr WR. I see him as a guy who can do it all - separate with quickness and route running, pile up RAC, and win contested catches. He's primarily an outside WR, but he does great work from the slot. Despite his wiry frame, he plays with great strength - a bit like AJ Green in that regard (not saying he's in that super-elite range).
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think you've outlined it perfectly, as far as the arguments to be made against him. It's the lack of tape against press, the tendency to let a ball into his body (and double catch), the sparing tape of significant RAC plays.

    Thing is, I'm comfortable with all that.

    First off on the RAC thing, he's big and strong and fast, and has a knack for keeping his feet and/or staying in stride after he secures the football. When all of that is true, you're a good RAC player. You may not be a GREAT RAC player, but you're at least a good one. That may come off as a cheap argument, but it also has the benefit of being true.

    He's also relatively inexperienced. He didn't play a ton in 2016, so it's natural that you'd see some sort of evolution in his 2017 tape to where you find that each game he looks visibly just a little bit different than he did two games before. To that end, I thought his RAC skills particularly began to blossom starting with the Lousiana-Lafayette game. He followed it up with a nice RAC play against Idaho, but he also fumbled on that play.

    But if you really look at those three games, the La-Lafayette, Idaho, and then the final game of the year against South Alabama, I think you would find that his approach to RAC changed pretty significantly.

    Secondly with the press thing, you even alluded to what I feel is the natural argument against that, which is the fact some teams (Arkansas comes to mind) specifically avoided playing press against him. They decided it's too risky! If that's the case, should we really consider his play vs press to be a negative? It's closer to the opposite. He's so good with his hands and body at the top of the route to create space for the catch, and he's so big and he's so fast.

    I'm staring at a Diet Coke I bought from a vending machine downstairs. I've never seen this particular Diet Coke in low temperatures, but I'm pretty sure if I put it in the freezer, it's going to turn to ice.

    For what it's worth this is what I could find of him going against press, and I really do think the footage supports the theory that teams avoided press because he's so deadly against it.

    Soft shoe vs New Mexico
    True press vs New Mexico
    True press vs New Mexico (TD)
    True press vs New Mexico
    Zone jam on crosser vs Troy
    Press bail (RZ) vs Troy (TD)
    True press vs Troy (TD)
    True press vs UTEP
    Soft shoe vs Arkansas
    True press vs Georgia Southern
    True press vs Georgia Southern (TD)
    True press vs Georgia Southern (TD)
    True press vs Arkansas State
    True press vs Arkansas State**
    Soft shoe vs Texas State
    Zone jam on crosser vs Idaho
    Press bail vs South Alabama
    Press bail vs South Alabama
    Press bail vs South Alabama
    (I don't know what happened off camera, but the guy in press bail above ends up on the ground, and they started playing different coverage from then on)
    Soft shoe vs South Alabama
    True press vs South Alabama**
    Zone press vs South Alabama

    Seeing all that...I'm convinced the guy is good against press.
     
  14. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    James Washington reminds me a lot of Chris Chambers coming out of Wisconsin.
     
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  15. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Unbelievable. I made the exact mental comparison a few hours ago, without seeing your post. There was so much buzz about Washington the past few days at the Senior Bowl practices. I finally took a close look at him today and thought -- huh, 5-11 height but plays much taller given the arm length and determination to snag the ball...sounds like Chris Chambers to me.

    Washington is somewhat thicker and more sudden than Chambers and probably stopwatch faster. Chambers was more fluid. Overall I think they are very similar.

    I entered this thread tonight to see which seniors were being touted. Chark, Gallup and Hamilton have been impressive this week.
     
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