Slimm's 2019 Defensive Ends (seniors)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TedSlimmJr, May 2, 2018.

  1. HeavenCent

    HeavenCent Active Member

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    I’ve seen Omenihu called the “next Trey Flowers.” Is he really that good? How much of a difference is there between him and say someone like Wise?
     
  2. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Some similarities. Flowers had a better all-around game coming out, and Omenihu has a higher ceiling as a pass rusher, but both have huge wingspans and high-end burst relative to their size but not great speed or agility. Omenihu is taller and heavier. I definitely think he's a fit for a NE style DE.
     
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  3. NoblePhin

    NoblePhin Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Really starting to like Ben Banogu of TCU. Very explosive player that looks like a 3-4 OLB but also a 4-3 Passrusher. 6'3 250, set the record for broad jump, 4.6, highest vert... Definitely an explosive player.

    If we go Wilkins at 13 our DT room is set and you gotta look for an Edge player and he would be my ideal 3rd rnd pick, but he might not even last that long.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think LJ Collier is a lot closer to a Trey Flowers or Michael Bennett, personally.
     
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  5. HeavenCent

    HeavenCent Active Member

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    Any chance Banogu can play LB in Flores’ system?
     
  6. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    That's where I'd play him - in the Van Noy/Collins role.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I'm just not very inclined to pay a price in order to roll the dice on a very chancy transition like we'd be asking of a Ben Banogu, Jordan Brailford, or someone like that. I like both players quite a bit.

    I think it's a lot less chancy with a Justin Hollins because of what he's already done both at Oregon and at Shrine week. Similar with Jahlani Tavai and Emeke Egbule.

    Maybe D'Andre Walker but again, not sure how much I'm willing to pay to get in the game on him transitioning to where we'd play him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  8. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Hollins is the most obvious fit - agreed. Banogu offers more upside, and I see most people putting them both in the 3rd/4th range. I'd be happy with either in that range - assuming one of my preferred DB's isn't available.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    My bleeping god, Kaden Elliss (son of Luther Elliss) is awesome.



    He's got T.J. Watt-like abilities.

    I'm literally like only 2 minutes into this guy so I'm starting from scratch.

    But his physical abilities are reach out of the screen and slap you in the face good.
     
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  10. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Well, I've never quite seen T.J. Watt abilities. He's got a lot of flaws to fix with pad level, technique, and knowing where the ball is. Loafs a lot. Gets to make a lot of plays as the overhanging defender in that alignment. He's my #34 ranked Senior linebacker.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't disagree that he loafs around when he's out in space. And knowing where the ball is on fakes, that certainly happens to him (and a whole lot of other players) when he's playing on the line in a rush position. It's worse when he's out in space.

    But pad level and bend are not things I'd criticize on him.



    I think the big source of disconnect here is if you watch him in one role as an overhang defender, you're not going to rate him (unless you're able to discern what a physical specimen he is; something you could really only confirm less than a week ago). But then if you watch him in another role as rush linebacker, the light might go on a bit more. Essentially, watch him against Florida and you'd be "meh" on the guy but watch him against Fresno State and you might be a lot more impressed. I think Emeke Egbule is facing the same issue, for similar reasons.

    I'm watching Kaden Elliss play against Florida and it's upsetting. There are a bare handful of plays where he was used in a way where you could see the potential. As the overhang defender, as you say he was in position to make some plays, and he did. He had 10 tackles including a TFL, plus a PBU against the Florida Gators. But you'd struggle to remember any of the plays, in part because it was such a blowout but also in part because his play at the position wasn't memorable.

    They didn't know what they had or how to use it. Hell, I've seen quotes from his own father Luther Elliss who was a multiple pro bowler and the DL Coach of the team, and even he didn't seem to realize what his son could do. Granted, Luther has 12 children...



    Sometimes it's funny the role mentors can play in a prospect's career. I was reading about Blake Cashman and the role his pastor played in his life. Evidently the pastor had a son who played on the same football team in high school as Cashman. He came to the games to watch his son, and his eyes couldn't come off Blake. He told people, regardless of what they think, that's the best player on the team, but he's playing the wrong position. The pastor saw him as a linebacker. They struck up a relationship and the pastor offered to train him, coach him.

    Blake Cashman had to go to Minnesota as a walk-on. When he got there, sure enough, Jerry Kill wants to make Blake a safety. With some prodding, they decided to move him to linebacker shortly into his redshirt year. Surprise, surprise, as a linebacker in 2016 he made a big splash rushing the passer and getting to do things he wouldn't have done as a safety. Two years later, he was a phenomenal linebacker on that defense, showed up at the Combine 6'1" & 237 lbs, and had the best Combine of any linebacker in the class.

    I can't help but see Kaden Elliss as a guy who wasn't lucky enough to have a mentor that had the right vision for him. At least not for the Florida game. Back in 2017 he rushed the passer 178 times and got 36 pressures (over 20% pressure rate which is amazing). And on the few occasions he was allowed to do that against Florida, he showed he was too much for the likes of Stone Forsythe. It's not as if it's just FCS talent.



    But there's a reason a total of TWELVE teams sent their scouts out to Moscow, Idaho to watch a 4-win FCS program's Pro Day last week.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  12. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Yeah I've watched him his entire career at Idaho. You actually kinda see him do a little bit what he did to the sled to a guy at 7:46 in the Fresno St. video.

    But the 4.59 equates to about a 4.70 at the combine. He's a developmental prospect with some leverage and technique issues to remedy.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Yeah we're just not going to agree on Kaden Elliss then.

    But speaking of a player that's been led astray, Quinton Bell should not be what he is for Prairie View, but you're left starting completely from scratch with him because he's not a pass rusher at the pro level.

    He's got athleticism akin to a Byron Jones or Juan Thornhill, but Prairie View had him playing defensive end at 220 lbs. He got rocked up to 238 lbs for his pro day, and put on a blistering performance.
     
  14. HeavenCent

    HeavenCent Active Member

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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's becoming somewhat chic to be down on Montez Sweat and I'm not sure I see it.

    I get that he's not perfect. He has flaws. He's not bendy as a pure speed rusher, like a Robert Quinn, Cameron Wake, or the guy Miami just got from the AAF Jayrone Elliott. But that doesn't mean he can't be a very successful NFL player.

    He reminds me quite a bit of Jason Pierre-Paul. Early in JPP's career he used to rush the passer from the inside or outside. He's played 3-man Defensive End. He's played RDE and LDE in 4-man fronts. He can play from an up position. He's had a very successful career and he continues to have a very successful career.

    Montez Sweat plays a lot like him, except I think Montez is faster, maybe even a bit more agile. He dominates with those long arms, frame, and those hands of his, a lot like JPP.
     

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