So how does it work now w/ Ireland? Does he get another 4 yr term like the President?

[ohall]

Your the one trying to present your opinion as fact without anything to back it up.
I dont mind disagreement but you said we let go Parcells and noone has seen anything that even remotely makes a case for that.
even Shula said he was dissapointed that Parcells quit on the phins. Not one source has said Parcells was forced out.

It's no different than a story citing an un-named source.

 

[dlockz]

It's no different than a story citing an un-named source.

hell even give an example of that. Not one example by anybody have i seen that shows Parcells was forcd out. This is Parcells MO quit

 

[Fish-Head]

That's all I cared to address. I decide what I respond to, not you. You want to get into some kind of argument, I'm simply trying to redirect you to the freaking point.

I'm off point??? Your claim that Tuna was forced out because of the Pat White pick AND that Ireland was AGAINST it is based on NOTHING BUT SPECULATION... On one hand you dismiss the MULTITUDE of sources in the media claiming that it was actually Tuna who quit on the team... (And the man's HISTORY with other franchises) and then you turn 'round and ask for proof in that same media that Ross nixed the Orton deal... Only to AGAIN deny it when it is provided...

Come on... Aren't you being a little convenient???? Disclaim the media when it suits your 'argument' on one hand and then demand credibility from THAT SAME media... In another... Dude.

Btw.. You asked for a source like ESPN about the Orton thing and Spesh gave it to you... Point blank. At some point the word 'denial' must come into play...

 

[Irishfinfan1]

Outstanding. So now the coach is in charge. Does Jeff Ireland ever get held accountable for anything?

Its a Gm's job to create a winning team. Its a Gm's job to obtain talented players. Schemes are easier to build than entire rosters. Good front offices realize that you work with what you have instead of tearing the entire thing to the ground. Compare what Mike Tomlin(a 4-3 lover) did with the Steelers to what Cam Cameron did to the Dolphins.
If Jeff Ireland is passing on talented players because of pressure from the coach, he deserves to be fired. If he really had Mike Pouncey rated higher then a pro-bowl quarterback, he deserves to be fired. If he felt that securing the run game was more important than securing the passing game, he deserves to be fired. Everyone is sitting here debating "when" he screwed up, when instead they should be focused on the fact that he "did" screw up.

This entire "he was following a plan" thing is absolutely absurd. Has anyone ever asked themselves if Ireland's plan was any good? Jeff Ireland is not a good Gm because he has not done his job: which is to build a winning roster.

How do you know Ireland didn't draft talented players? Given the coaching staff we had with Sparano and co how many players actually improved under them? Solai, maybe Starks his 1st year, Fasano?! If Ireland had Pouncey rated higher than a Pro Bowl QB he deserves to be fired. What utter drivel, so if 1 Pro Bowl QB was drafted outside the 1st round every GM that needs a franchise QB should be fired?

 

[Spesh]

How do you know Ireland didn't draft talented players? Given the coaching staff we had with Sparano and co how many players actually improved under them? Solai, maybe Starks his 1st year, Fasano?! If Ireland had Pouncey rated higher than a Pro Bowl QB he deserves to be fired. What utter drivel, so if 1 Pro Bowl QB was drafted outside the 1st round every GM that needs a franchise QB should be fired?

The fact that weve had 3 losing seasons in a row and are rebuilding(again). The fact that we are basically where we were 5 years ago: looking for a quarterback and rebuilding our offense.
And Cam Cameron/Randy Mueller drafted Soliai, not Ireland. Fasano, who is hardly an all talented player, was drafted by Parcells in Dallas then traded to Miami when Parcells jumped over. While its not outside the realm of possibility that Ireland pushed for him, i think its more reasonable to say Parcells had more of a hand in that. And again, Fasano is hardly the most talented player in the world...which is why we've made an effort to replace him(see: Charles Clay and our failed effort to draft Jimmy Graham).

I'll see your Starks(who wasnt drafted by Miami, he was drafted by the Titans) wager and raise you Gibril Wilson, Justin Smiley, Marc Colombo, Jake Grove, Ernest Wilford, and Chris Crocker. Though not on that list, my favorite "evaluating talent" situation was when Ireland cut Will Allen to keep Benny Sapp. Depressing...yet amusing in hindsight.

And sure. If you dont have a franchise quarterback and a pro-bowl quarterback drops to you, and you PASS on it for a position of far less importance...than yes, you should be fired. If you dont have a franchise quarterback in the NFL then you cannot consistently win in the NFL. If you cannot consistently win in the NFL you do not deserve to be paid large amounts of money. Why should someone be employed if they have shown they cannot properly do their job? We JUST saw the impact of a good center compared to the impact of a good quarterback. We didnt win a game until week 9, while Dalton led the Bengals to the playoffs. Not sure how any of that is in Miamis or Irelands favor.
What, should we praise Oakland because they drafted a kicker in the first round? I mean, hey, they got a good player. One of the best in the league at that position. But they had years and year of losing afterward. It doesnt take a nuclear physicists to figure out the cause of their losing.

 

[Spesh]

I'm off point??? Your claim that Tuna was forced out because of the Pat White pick AND that Ireland was AGAINST it is based on NOTHING BUT SPECULATION... On one hand you dismiss the MULTITUDE of sources in the media claiming that it was actually Tuna who quit on the team... (And the man's HISTORY with other franchises) and then you turn 'round and ask for proof in that same media that Ross nixed the Orton deal... Only to AGAIN deny it when it is provided...

Come on... Aren't you being a little convenient???? Disclaim the media when it suits your 'argument' on one hand and then demand credibility from THAT SAME media... In another... Dude.

Btw.. You asked for a source like ESPN about the Orton thing and Spesh gave it to you... Point blank. At some point the word 'denial' must come into play...

Sorry, it doesnt matter that the sources came from inside the Dolphins front office and inside the NFL league office. Unless you have their names, phone numbers, work history, social security number, medical history, and video evidence of the deal falling apart, then its all made up. I mean, we have to be reasonable here, right?

 

[Irishfinfan1]

The fact that weve had 3 losing seasons in a row and are rebuilding(again). The fact that we are basically where we were 5 years ago: looking for a quarterback and rebuilding our offense.
And Cam Cameron/Randy Mueller drafted Soliai, not Ireland. Fasano, who is hardly an all talented player, was drafted by Parcells in Dallas then traded to Miami when Parcells jumped over. While its not outside the realm of possibility that Ireland pushed for him, i think its more reasonable to say Parcells had more of a hand in that. And again, Fasano is hardly the most talented player in the world...which is why we've made an effort to replace him(see: Charles Clay and our failed effort to draft Jimmy Graham).

I'll see your Starks(who wasnt drafted by Miami, he was drafted by the Titans) wager and raise you Gibril Wilson, Justin Smiley, Marc Colombo, Jake Grove, Ernest Wilford, and Chris Crocker. Though not on that list, my favorite "evaluating talent" situation was when Ireland cut Will Allen to keep Benny Sapp. Depressing...yet amusing in hindsight.

And sure. If you dont have a franchise quarterback and a pro-bowl quarterback drops to you, and you PASS on it for a position of far less importance...than yes, you should be fired. If you dont have a franchise quarterback in the NFL then you cannot consistently win in the NFL. If you cannot consistently win in the NFL you do not deserve to be paid large amounts of money. Why should someone be employed if they have shown they cannot properly do their job? We JUST saw the impact of a good center compared to the impact of a good quarterback. We didnt win a game until week 9, while Dalton led the Bengals to the playoffs. Not sure how any of that is in Miamis or Irelands favor.
What, should we praise Oakland because they drafted a kicker in the first round? I mean, hey, they got a good player. One of the best in the league at that position. But they had years and year of losing afterward. It doesnt take a nuclear physicists to figure out the cause of their losing.

I think you are missing my point, what I am saying is that very few players improved under Sparano and co. I think Ireland is a reasonably good talent evaluator, not a great one and not an awful one either. I think he has brought reasonable talent in and Sparano, Henning and the boys did bugger all with helping them achieve their potential. With the right coaching we would clearly be playing better and getting better results. Even Sparano's game management cost us games.
Everybody would draft a pro bowl QB if they knew a prospect was going to be that good, Dalton was drafted in the 2nd round so a good load of talent evaluators in the NFL didn't think he would be an instant pro bowler, did you?

 

[lbsfinest]

I think Ireland is a reasonably good talent evaluator, not a great one and not an awful one either.

He's closer to awful than good.

 

[Spesh]

I think you are missing my point, what I am saying is that very few players improved under Sparano and co. I think Ireland is a reasonably good talent evaluator, not a great one and not an awful one either. I think he has brought reasonable talent in and Sparano, Henning and the boys did bugger all with helping them achieve their potential. With the right coaching we would clearly be playing better and getting better results. Even Sparano's game management cost us games.
Everybody would draft a pro bowl QB if they knew a prospect was going to be that good, Dalton was drafted in the 2nd round so a good load of talent evaluators in the NFL didn't think he would be an instant pro bowler, did you?

Its his job to know if a prospect is "that good". He gets paid MILLIONS of dollars a year to know if a prospect is good. He failed in his job. Why should he keep getting paid? It doesnt matter if i knew Dalton was going to succeed or not, because im not the one getting paid to know it.

"Reasonable" talent equals multiple losing seasons. Its not his job to bring in talent once in awhile. Its his job to bring in talented players all the time. Talent usually floats to the top in spite of coaching. While coaching does play a part you, good players will make good plays even if its inconsistent because the coaching staff doesnt put them in the best position to succeed.
There is a reason why we are picking 8th overall and we dont have enough cap to even resign our own players. Its because our GM has done a horrific job. What Ibsfinest said is true, Ireland is closer to awful than good. There should be no excuse as to why we still lack a quarterback and we are still rebuilding after 5 years on the job. There is no excuse as to why we are still trying to fill voids at safety, linebacker, and wideout(problems weve had since '08). Even the Lions rebuilt their team faster than we did, and they were about as talentless as a team can get under Matt Millen.