Some context for the Brees comparison

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Drew Brees had a very high IQ . Made great decisions hopefully this will come to Tua going forward.

This is a really good point. I don't think Tua was good enough with his decision making this year. That's an area where he'll absolutely have to get better.

Put another way, he's not going to beat teams the way Mahomes, Jackson or Allen do. So, that football IQ is big for him.

There were almost always better options on many of his interceptions, as an example.

 

[Mach2]

Put another way, he's not going to beat teams the way Mahomes, Jackson or Allen do. So, that football IQ is big for him.

That simple statement sums up exactly why many do not want to invest what would likely be required in terms of both money and time.

The QBs you mentioned are widely seen as the best in the game today, precisely because they have skill sets (three distinctly different skillets) that allow them to do things that Tua hasn't the tools to call upon when it's the difference between a win and a loss.

For all the OPs time and effort to make a Brees comparison, the fact still remains Brees was an outlier. Expecting a similar career path is a bad bet, not even getting into the one Championship in 20 years issue. I mean are we now arguing that we should hitch our wagon to Tua for 16 more years in the hopes he can repeat Brees' very unlikely HOF path?

Too many get labeled as "haters". I don't really think there are many who actually hate Tua. He is, by all accounts, a good and humble guy. Most of his detractors simply do not believe physical abilities are on par with the best in the league today. That's a wholly valid, non biased criticism that, to use a Big O term, "blind a$$ fans" refuse to accept as a rather large shortcomming.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

That simple statement sums up exactly why many do not want to invest what would likely be required in terms of both money and time.

The QBs you mentioned are widely seen as the best in the game today, precisely because they have skill sets (three distinctly different skillets) that allow them to do things that Tua hasn't the tools to call upon when it's the difference between a win and a loss.

For all the OPs time and effort to make a Brees comparison, the fact still remains Brees was an outlier. Expecting a similar career path is a bad bet, not even getting into the one Championship in 20 years issue. I mean are we now arguing that we should hitch our wagon to Tua for 16 more years in the hopes he can repeat Brees' very unlikely HOF path?

Too many get labeled as "haters". I don't really think there are many who actually hate Tua. He is, by all accounts, a good and humble guy. Most of his detractors simply do not believe physical abilities are on par with the best in the league today. That's a wholly valid, non biased criticism that, to use a Big O term, "blind a$$ fans" refuse to accept as a rather large shortcomming.

Also, I think you can like Tua, maybe even love the guy, and still be able to talk about his flaws.

Tua did come up short this year in some big situations. Namely the KC regular season game and the end of the Buffalo game for the AFC East title. He definitely wasn't as clutch as he's been in the past.

I prefer quarterbacks who can get out of the pocket and make plays with their legs. Not necessarily Lamar Jackson, but I love how Mahomes does it. Keeping the defense honest a few times a game.

That's not to say Miami can't win with Tua, but he has to play smarter than these other quarterbacks and make fewer mistakes. My opinion, anyway.

 

[Atila]

Tua is a chess piece.

The coaches, and largely the play callers (Fangio and MM), are the “chess players”.

Tua is the queen - he’s an important chess piece, but he is still just that.

Tua has his limitations, but MM fell short calling plays and adjusting his offense throughout the season and put his chess pieces in poor positions.

I will say Tua was less clutch this season than in years past, not sure why…

But MM needed to adjust better in game. He didn’t. Tua honed in on Hill too much? So MM needs to use Hill as bait more. He didn’t. How is THAT Tua’s fault, then?

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Tua is a chess piece.

The coaches, and largely the play callers (Fangio and MM), are the “chess players”.

Tua is the queen - he’s an important chess piece, but he is still just that.

Tua has his limitations, but MM fell short calling plays and adjusting his offense throughout the season and put his chess pieces in poor positions.

I will say Tua was less clutch this season than in years past, not sure why…

But MM needed to adjust better in game. He didn’t. Tua honed in on Hill too much? So MM needs to use Hill as bait more. He didn’t. How is THAT Tua’s fault, then?

This is also a fair argument. It would be nice to judge Tua with a better offensive line. Both McDaniel and Tua used their talents, so to speak, to mitigate the weakness of this unit.

With better offensive line play, Tua would have more time to look for second and third reads. He'd be able to be more patient and maybe make fewer mistakes.

But, when everything breaks down, as it is bound to do in the NFL, that's not Tua's strong suit. Then again, it wasn't for Tom Brady either.

If Tua finished the season as badly as he did with a healthy offensive line, I think the team would make the assessment to move on.

 

[Mach2]

Tua is a chess piece.

The coaches, and largely the play callers (Fangio and MM), are the “chess players”.

Tua is the queen - he’s an important chess piece, but he is still just that.

Tua has his limitations, but MM fell short calling plays and adjusting his offense throughout the season and put his chess pieces in poor positions.

I will say Tua was less clutch this season than in years past, not sure why…

But MM needed to adjust better in game. He didn’t. Tua honed in on Hill too much? So MM needs to use Hill as bait more. He didn’t. How is THAT Tua’s fault, then?

That may be true in the larger team context, but that is conflating two separate issues.

Yes, the two issues are intertwined, but really has nothing to do with with Tua's perceived physical limitations.

Seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are saying that if McD was better that it would somehow mask Tua's flaws?

 

[Atila]

That may be true in the larger team context, but that is conflating two separate issues.

Yes, the two issues are intertwined, but really has nothing to do with with Tua's perceived physical limitations.

Seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are saying that if McD was better that it would somehow mask Tua's flaws?

I don’t really know… it’s just strange that we can score 30ppg early in the season and then can’t score more than 20ppg against good defenses.

Is that Tua missing? It just felt like against good teams, where we have less room for error, we fell short offensively. Things like always throwing on 3rd and 1 can’t be put on Tua… these are good defenses, coaches need to call a strong game.

I feel like the playcalling against the Cowboys was pretty solid… as a result we won and put up 22pts and won in a good game.

I don’t really have the answer here… but how are we running for 130+yards in the first half of a game and then 7 yards in the second half?

How are we still calling screen after screen or throwing in obvious running downs *when our run game is good*.

Conversely, I also don’t blame our OL - we were able to game plan around that for the most part. MM is also smart to plan around his teams limitations.

Why weren’t we checking down more and taking the underneath stuff if they’re taking the middle of the field away? Why weren’t we scheming in other players better. Zero gadget plays ever.

Early in the season we were able to get 5-8yard swing passes/underneath throws/wheel routes/etc etc with ease… by end of the season… did other coaches figure out our O?

I don’t know the answer… I just know Tua was able to be successful against good and bad teams… so maybe the playcalling was more an issue than the player.

 

[sn9ke.eyes]

That simple statement sums up exactly why many do not want to invest what would likely be required in terms of both money and time.

The QBs you mentioned are widely seen as the best in the game today, precisely because they have skill sets (three distinctly different skillets) that allow them to do things that Tua hasn't the tools to call upon when it's the difference between a win and a loss.

For all the OPs time and effort to make a Brees comparison, the fact still remains Brees was an outlier. Expecting a similar career path is a bad bet, not even getting into the one Championship in 20 years issue. I mean are we now arguing that we should hitch our wagon to Tua for 16 more years in the hopes he can repeat Brees' very unlikely HOF path?

Too many get labeled as "haters". I don't really think there are many who actually hate Tua. He is, by all accounts, a good and humble guy. Most of his detractors simply do not believe physical abilities are on par with the best in the league today. That's a wholly valid, non biased criticism that, to use a Big O term, "blind a$$ fans" refuse to accept as a rather large shortcomming.

Mahomes is for sure an outlier, Allen and Jackson qualify athletically as outliers but haven't really won anything yet.

So you can say Brees is an outlier, and you'd be right. But so is Mahomes.

If the goal is to win, which is the more likely to happen, finding a 'Mahomes' or building around a 'Brees' ?

 

[royalshank]

Lamar Jackson - as I’ve stated a couple of times of late - will be the MVP of this years SB. He’s dialed in and knows how to get it. It can take time to get to this level that we’re seeing from him, or Mahomes in prior years. Tua can get there. Gonna take a bit longer.

 

[FinInYpsi]

To the OPs point, a lot of shorter QBs that have been successful have really good interior OLs. And when the inside OL is a liability, you see teams throw a lot at getting inside pressure (like the eagles game this year when eich was at center). It seems to disrupt shorter QBs more because they can't see over the middle when the pressure comes from the front of the pocket. It also explains why Payton always seemed to prioritize guards in FA and the draft when the trend in most of the league was to cheap out on guard and spend up on tackles.

 

[YorkshirePhin]

Tua has extremely limited mobility in comparison to Brees.

 

[Mach2]

Tua has extremely limited mobility in comparison to Brees.

IDK if I would go that far, but Brees was a plus athlete, who probably could have played baseball had he chose to.

A better overall athlete than Tua, though.

 

[Third Eye]

All I can say is remember the stats Culpepper put up with Randy Moss? And then they took Moss away and what did Culpepper look like?

Pedestrian.

 

[bdizzle00]

Also, I think you can like Tua, maybe even love the guy, and still be able to talk about his flaws.

Tua did come up short this year in some big situations. Namely the KC regular season game and the end of the Buffalo game for the AFC East title. He definitely wasn't as clutch as he's been in the past.

I prefer quarterbacks who can get out of the pocket and make plays with their legs. Not necessarily Lamar Jackson, but I love how Mahomes does it. Keeping the defense honest a few times a game.

That's not to say Miami can't win with Tua, but he has to play smarter than these other quarterbacks and make fewer mistakes. My opinion, anyway.

Great take.

 

[Mello Yello]

This is a really good point. I don't think Tua was good enough with his decision making this year. That's an area where he'll absolutely have to get better.

Put another way, he's not going to beat teams the way Mahomes, Jackson or Allen do. So, that football IQ is big for him.

There were almost always better options on many of his interceptions, as an example.

Yeah, the only caveat here is that I think Tua's actions are a product of his coaching. He's reading the defense as he's being taught. He's reading based on the defenders he's told to look at. He's going thru the progressions as they're laid out by McDaniel.

While I agree the overall offense needs to improve, I don't automatically lay that at the feet of the player.