Some of you guys make me laugh..... | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Some of you guys make me laugh.....

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JTC111 said:
Did he really say that?
Click to expand...

Yes. But in his world, if you want to argue against his point of view you have to do it with statistics, assuming that you had the time or desire to obtain said statistics or knew where in the hell to get them in the first place. Actually watching football doesn't count. Your eyes, logic and intellect will just deceive you because you are biased and therefore your opinion is worthless. Stats only. All hail statistics.

This guy, a professional statistician, summed it up pretty well in a different thread on this site, directly respondig to Shouright/Gravity:

"I'll never forget an exchange I had with my boss on my first job after finishing grad school. I was asked to do some complex analysis and was so proud when I was able to gather the data and crank it through a canned procedure that belonged to a statistical software package. When I presented my findings to him he pointed out biases in the data that I had failed to take into account, a concept not stressed enough in theoretical graduate school coursework.

My boss said to me: "Who is doing the work, Mr. Xxxxxx? You or the computer? Statistics is one tool at your disposal. Your brain is another. You might wish to use it."

This was an invaluable lesson that I learned as it opened my eyes to the fact that the data you encounter in academic research is nice and clean as opposed to the real world. And in my exuberance to impress my boss with my knowledge of statistics I had lost sight of the project's objective.

While I enjoy participating in debates involving statistics, I also appreciate the sentiments of FinFanInBuffalo and others who understand the danger of relying purely on statistics to the detriment of common sense. To do so is the epitome of laziness.

I am glad that Shouright presents opinions based on statistics as it elevates and diversifies the nature of the forum discussions. As I stated earlier, my personal opinion was that many of these types of analyses are flawed, not due to a lack of understanding of the issue, but because the data required to test these hypotheses correctly is difficult to obtain and time consuming to perform."

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...-with-NFL-Quarterback-Play-and-Winning/page21

-----------------------

Pay particular attention to the last paragraph- Shou/Grav KNOWS that what this guy is saying is spot on, that disproving his questionable theories would take a huge amount of time, effort and know how from a professional statistician, not to mention an average poster. So when he comes up with an idiotic thesis such as WRs are interchangeable, his default response when challenged is "prove me wrong"- in stats, of course. Nyah Nyah. He knows what he is doing, knows that what he is asking in terms of countering his argument with stats is a daunting task and knows that he's being an aggravating pain in the rear. And enjoying every minute of it. And he does it again and again and again. That is, at least in part, why he was banned. Notice how when I asked him directly why he was banned he ran for cover, took his proverbial ball with him and ran home. Typical.

In other words, good old Gravity/Shouright has no problem suggesting to others that they devote massive amounts of time and effort to statistically proving him wrong, but when an actual statistician suggests that he do the work himself and actually do it right- he declines every time, just like he did at thephins. Folds like a cheap tent. Worships at the idol of stats, but won't do it the right way when called to the mat. He's a hypocrite who uses his marginal understanding of statistics, incorrectly, to make nonsensical arguments but does't have the sack to back it up when called to the mat by those who actually understand statistics. Apparently it ceases to be fun for him when he can no longer just stick out his tongue at the majority of posters and say prove me wrong, with statistics.
 
jim1 said:
Stats only. All hail statistics.
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Basing a player's skills entirely upon statistics always seemed a fool's errand to me, and that's why I ignore his threads. Players bring intangibles to the game for which statistics can't accurately account. I'm not saying stats are unimportant, but they can't be the only information on the table. That's the reason Joe Torre was a better manager than Joe Gerardi. Gerardi always has his head in the stats book. It's also why great poker players don't rely entirely on percentages. If all you know are stats, you never develop a feel for the game.
 
floriokie said:
There are so many of you that post responces to threads on here that make me laugh and shake my head....

there are so many times on here that someone posts a thread to start a conversation about the Dolphins
and are expecting good discussion but, all they get from too many people on here is BS...

instead of commenting on the topic, people will go off topic, say something negative about the poster, etc..

and then the thread is screwed up and so far off topic that it is not worth reading or responding....

:idk:
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Damn, that kind of worries me. I've been searching for an intelligent Fins forum where people actually discuss football (instead of just calling each other names). I though that maybe I'd find that here but it's a huge red flag when this is the post at the top of the Miami Dolphins thread.

So help me out here guys, here are my main viewpoints in a nutshell. If I'm going to be flamed to death every time I post, then I'd be better off to keep looking for a new home-

- Tannehill's not a complete bust, but his accuracy issues are a serious problem. Although I believe that the OC held him back a lot by telling him to NEVER run, his inability to hit receivers in stride it too much to ignore. I wouldn't start Moore yet but I think Miami needs to draft another QB to learn the ropes.

- I still like Philbin but I think the Wells report will make this a "hot seat" year. Saying you had no idea that your leadership council was full of bullies is far too damning to overlook. Either his assistants completely screwed him here or he's intentionally out of touch. Either way, the scandal was 100% his fault as the team's leader and he does not deserve the free pass that Wells gave him.

- Speaking of the scandal, Martin was no choir boy. You can't admit to harassing others and then claim that you were harassed too...if it works for Martin, then it works for Incognito, Pouncey and Jones too. I don't believe the popular opinion that we will see five new starters in 2014 because Wells pointed out that the linemen didn't realize they were breaking Dolphins policy. They'll get wrist-slaps for the most part, but Incognito is probably done in the NFL either way.

- With that in mind, I think we drafted a nobody GM because there's a chance that we see a new HC and GM in 2015...if the team doesn't make the playoffs this coming season. If that happens, Tannehill will be gone as well and it will be an official rebuilding year all over again.

- Other than that, I loved the Ireland firing (because he's a bastard of a person...although I think he was decent evaluating talent). With a decent line and a huge growth year from Tannehill, I think we're a pretty unbeatable team for anyone. That's also dependent on getting a running game going again, but I think Miller still has the goods. He just needs running lanes and there were very few of them last season.

- Oh, and I'm a journalist too (not in sports) so I generally pick apart everything the mainstream media ever says. Over 90% of the "NFL experts" out there say exactly what the last guy said, because they have no idea about the Miami Dolphins, coach Philbin or Ryan Tannehill. That always burns me up and it makes me even madder when people on forums quote it like it's the gospel.

So anyway, I'm interested to see if I get real replies or the typical childish stuff like "Tannehill's awesome you hater!" Either way though, I figured that this would save me some time deciding on if this was the place for me or not.
 
JTC111 said:
Basing a player's skills entirely upon statistics always seemed a fool's errand to me, and that's why I ignore his threads. Players bring intangibles to the game for which statistics can't accurately account. I'm not saying stats are unimportant, but they can't be the only information on the table. That's the reason Joe Torre was a better manager than Joe Gerardi. Gerardi always has his head in the stats book. It's also why great poker players don't rely entirely on percentages. If all you know are stats, you never develop a feel for the game.
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I can perfectly understand anyone ignoring "Shouwrong".......but frankly anyone who thinks stats or in his case.......specific stats...... tell the whole story on how well a player is playing is naive and ignorant.
 
BlueFin said:
I can perfectly understand anyone ignoring "Shouwrong".......but frankly anyone who thinks stats or in his case.......specific stats...... tell the whole story on how well a player is playing is naive and ignorant.
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And anyone who thinks the personal opinions of people heavily emotionally invested in seeing one thing and not another are a more reliable source of information about the same subject matter is even more naïve and ignorant.
 
Gravity said:
And anyone who thinks the personal opinions of people heavily emotionally invested in seeing one thing and not another are a more reliable source of information about the same subject matter is even more naïve and ignorant.
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Well actually no...that isn't correct. You see, you have both a heavily emotional vested interest in seeing and saying one thing over and over again trying to convince everyone of your agenda.....and....you use specific, cherry picked stats to do it.

That makes you doubly more naïve and ignorant....doesn't it?
 
Gravity said:
And anyone who thinks the personal opinions of people heavily emotionally invested in seeing one thing and not another are a more reliable source of information about the same subject matter is even more naïve and ignorant.
Click to expand...

You're not arguing against what anyone is saying. No one has said, afaik, that statistics aren't a good source of information. People are saying that if statistics are your ONLY source of information you're not seeing the whole picture. But to each his own.
 
Gravity said:
And anyone who thinks the personal opinions of people heavily emotionally invested in seeing one thing and not another are a more reliable source of information about the same subject matter is even more naïve and ignorant.
Click to expand...

That's an assumption on your part...I've posted on this board for a long time now and anybody whose paid attention knows I've been very critical of this team despite being a fan.


Are you suggesting or admitting you are NOT a fan of the Miami Dolphins?


It's not about personal opinions my friend, I 've watched this game for a long time and I know what I am seeing, and stats alone don't always tell the whole story.

You might think you know, but you don't.

There is no GM in NFL history that was successfull by making all his decisions on stats alone....he more importantly has to look at the film to understand what effects the success and failure of a given player.

Any GM that would make his decisions using the criteria that you use to come to your judgements would get laughed out of the league.
 
Shou/gravity,

No one here likes you. Probably in real life too. I feel bad for you.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
jim1 said:
Yes. But in his world, if you want to argue against his point of view you have to do it with statistics, assuming that you had the time or desire to obtain said statistics or knew where in the hell to get them in the first place. Actually watching football doesn't count. Your eyes, logic and intellect will just deceive you because you are biased and therefore your opinion is worthless. Stats only. All hail statistics.

This guy, a professional statistician, summed it up pretty well in a different thread on this site, directly respondig to Shouright/Gravity:

"I'll never forget an exchange I had with my boss on my first job after finishing grad school. I was asked to do some complex analysis and was so proud when I was able to gather the data and crank it through a canned procedure that belonged to a statistical software package. When I presented my findings to him he pointed out biases in the data that I had failed to take into account, a concept not stressed enough in theoretical graduate school coursework.

My boss said to me: "Who is doing the work, Mr. Xxxxxx? You or the computer? Statistics is one tool at your disposal. Your brain is another. You might wish to use it."

This was an invaluable lesson that I learned as it opened my eyes to the fact that the data you encounter in academic research is nice and clean as opposed to the real world. And in my exuberance to impress my boss with my knowledge of statistics I had lost sight of the project's objective.

While I enjoy participating in debates involving statistics, I also appreciate the sentiments of FinFanInBuffalo and others who understand the danger of relying purely on statistics to the detriment of common sense. To do so is the epitome of laziness.

I am glad that Shouright presents opinions based on statistics as it elevates and diversifies the nature of the forum discussions. As I stated earlier, my personal opinion was that many of these types of analyses are flawed, not due to a lack of understanding of the issue, but because the data required to test these hypotheses correctly is difficult to obtain and time consuming to perform."

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...-with-NFL-Quarterback-Play-and-Winning/page21

-----------------------

Pay particular attention to the last paragraph- Shou/Grav KNOWS that what this guy is saying is spot on, that disproving his questionable theories would take a huge amount of time, effort and know how from a professional statistician, not to mention an average poster. So when he comes up with an idiotic thesis such as WRs are interchangeable, his default response when challenged is "prove me wrong"- in stats, of course. Nyah Nyah. He knows what he is doing, knows that what he is asking in terms of countering his argument with stats is a daunting task and knows that he's being an aggravating pain in the rear. And enjoying every minute of it. And he does it again and again and again. That is, at least in part, why he was banned. Notice how when I asked him directly why he was banned he ran for cover, took his proverbial ball with him and ran home. Typical.

In other words, good old Gravity/Shouright has no problem suggesting to others that they devote massive amounts of time and effort to statistically proving him wrong, but when an actual statistician suggests that he do the work himself and actually do it right- he declines every time, just like he did at thephins. Folds like a cheap tent. Worships at the idol of stats, but won't do it the right way when called to the mat. He's a hypocrite who uses his marginal understanding of statistics, incorrectly, to make nonsensical arguments but does't have the sack to back it up when called to the mat by those who actually understand statistics. Apparently it ceases to be fun for him when he can no longer just stick out his tongue at the majority of posters and say prove me wrong, with statistics.
Click to expand...

Quoted so even the ignored still get their voice heard.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
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