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State of the offensive line

If I'm going to spend money on something I would rather it be on game film then some guys who have never coached or played the sports opinion...

I've seen you mention Shelly as this horrible pass blocker....how many rams games have you watched...

One, and Shelly was not playing. I defer to PFF, not as God but, as a site who spends over 10 hours a game grading all players. IF you did the same, I may well consider listening to you over them but, that is far from being realistic.
 
That's great, and your additions to what they have to say is also great. A very fair opinion.

I'd say what PFF does a good job of is it tells you the strengths and the weaknesses of a player in terms of results. I find that useful, gives me a good foundation for a player. What it doesn't tell you is why someone is bad at something and if it's correctable. For example, if Shelley was weak, a poor athlete or just not very flexible I'd understand that some of those things aren't fixable and he's going to struggle in protection. Now you can look at something like this: http://mockdraftable.com/player/843/ and see that he's definitely a solid athlete. Doesn't have great length but he has good lateral mobility which would lead you to believe he's a better fit in a zone scheme where he seals guys with angles and is on the move more and also that he has good enough lateral mobility to protect effectively and get in front of defenders. Maybe he'll never be great at it because of his length, but he has the movement skills to be successful at it. He's also 10 pounds heavier than his combine measurements so one can assume in an NFL training program he's stronger than when he came in, especially considering a small school program likely doesn't have the program an SEC school has for example. So then I watch him, the athleticism shows, especially when he's out in space. So he's a good pulling guard. I watch him in pass pro, and he simply looks lazy and drops his hands a lot and has an inconsistent punch. These things are correctable, they are technique based and that's Benton's calling card. This is just an example of how I'd look at a guy and why I think he can be a plus player on our OL and not nearly the detriment as a pass blocker as people fear. In addition we are drawing these conclusions on limited sample sizes. He's playing inconsistently and getting flipped between LG and RG with regularity. You can also say playing next to Pouncey is an upgrade over Harvey Dahl.

Another thing to look at that I skipped over is even though he has short arms, his vertical jump shows he has fantastic lower body explosion.
 
I'd say what PFF does a good job of is it tells you the strengths and the weaknesses of a player in terms of results. I find that useful, gives me a good foundation for a player. What it doesn't tell you is why someone is bad at something and if it's correctable. For example, if Shelley was weak, a poor athlete or just not very flexible I'd understand that some of those things aren't fixable and he's going to struggle in protection. Now you can look at something like this: http://mockdraftable.com/player/843/ and see that he's definitely a solid athlete. Doesn't have great length but he has good lateral mobility which would lead you to believe he's a better fit in a zone scheme where he seals guys with angles and is on the move more and also that he has good enough lateral mobility to protect effectively and get in front of defenders. Maybe he'll never be great at it because of his length, but he has the movement skills to be successful at it. He's also 10 pounds heavier than his combine measurements so one can assume in an NFL training program he's stronger than when he came in, especially considering a small school program likely doesn't have the program an SEC school has for example. So then I watch him, the athleticism shows, especially when he's out in space. So he's a good pulling guard. I watch him in pass pro, and he simply looks lazy and drops his hands a lot and has an inconsistent punch. These things are correctable, they are technique based and that's Benton's calling card. This is just an example of how I'd look at a guy and why I think he can be a plus player on our OL and not nearly the detriment as a pass blocker as people fear. In addition we are drawing these conclusions on limited sample sizes. He's playing inconsistently and getting flipped between LG and RG with regularity. You can also say playing next to Pouncey is an upgrade over Harvey Dahl.

I cannot dispute anything you say on Shelly but, Fisher and the Rams gave up on him as a lost cause in pass protect after having him for 3 years, while needing some help on the OL. Could they be wrong? Sure, would not be the first time in the NFL, and not the last. I REALLY hope you are right, and do like the signing at a minimal risk.
 
I cannot dispute anything you say on Shelly but, Fisher and the Rams gave up on him as a lost cause in pass protect after having him for 3 years, while needing some help on the OL. Could they be wrong? Sure, would not be the first time in the NFL, and not the last. I REALLY hope you are right, and do like the signing at a minimal risk.

They also chose to start Chris Williams over him who has been awful basically every season...you can take that as a slight to Shelley, I think it gives rise to poor evaluation on the Rams side. Took them a while to insert Joe Barksdale who I've always liked and is now getting the reps he deserves. To be fair, 200 snaps for Shelley last year and 2 sacks given up isn't some horrific result. I mean Jake Long gave up 6 in 500 snaps. He's had 2 years of sporadic playing time and over 423 snaps he's given up 5 sacks, 8 hits and 16 hurries. Bad, not horrific. I mean Richie gave 6 sacks in 312 pass pro along with 3 hits and 2 hurries. Even John Jerry who grades out great in pass pro over 681 snaps gave up 5 sacks, 4 hits and 16 hurries.
 
I cannot dispute anything you say on Shelly but, Fisher and the Rams gave up on him as a lost cause in pass protect after having him for 3 years, while needing some help on the OL. Could they be wrong? Sure, would not be the first time in the NFL, and not the last. I REALLY hope you are right, and do like the signing at a minimal risk.

Where did you see or read the Rams gave up on Shelley because of his pass protection?
 
They also chose to start Chris Williams over him who has been awful basically every season...you can take that as a slight to Shelley, I think it gives rise to poor evaluation on the Rams side. Took them a while to insert Joe Barksdale who I've always liked and is now getting the reps he deserves. To be fair, 200 snaps for Shelley last year and 2 sacks given up isn't some horrific result. I mean Jake Long gave up 6 in 500 snaps. He's had 2 years of sporadic playing time and over 423 snaps he's given up 5 sacks, 8 hits and 16 hurries. Bad, not horrific. I mean Richie gave 6 sacks in 312 pass pro along with 3 hits and 2 hurries. Even John Jerry who grades out great in pass pro over 681 snaps gave up 5 sacks, 4 hits and 16 hurries.

Doesn't Chris Williams play OT whereas Smith plays OG? I think Smith backed up both Rodger Safford and Harvey Dahl.

To further break down your stats on Smith in pass protection.
Smith took 124 snaps in pass protection at right guard and gave up two sacks, three hits and nine hurries. In his 76 pass protection snaps at left guard, Smith allowed zero sacks, one qb hit and three hurries.
Smith was a detriment in pass protection about 11% of the time at right guard and only about 5% of the time at left guard.
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/03/17/miami-dolphins-may-have-gotten-steal-in-shelley-smith/
 
I Don't see how anyone can say the line will not be improved....at a minimum the tackles are greatly improved.

The biggest question is whether we have guards that can do the job.
 
Where did you see or read the Rams gave up on Shelley because of his pass protection?

It was in an article from PFF, when they did in a run down of FA before it started. I'm not sure they mentioned Fisher, it may have just said the Rams, which are one in the same.
 
Doesn't Chris Williams play OT whereas Smith plays OG? I think Smith backed up both Rodger Safford and Harvey Dahl.

To further break down your stats on Smith in pass protection.
Smith took 124 snaps in pass protection at right guard and gave up two sacks, three hits and nine hurries. In his 76 pass protection snaps at left guard, Smith allowed zero sacks, one qb hit and three hurries.
Smith was a detriment in pass protection about 11% of the time at right guard and only about 5% of the time at left guard.
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/03/17/miami-dolphins-may-have-gotten-steal-in-shelley-smith/

Smith's two starts were at RG, and in a 3rd game, he came in after 3 snaps. While his pass protect was worse on the right, his run block was better, vs Tenn- 1 sack, 0 hits, 3 hurries with a run grade of 4.1 (his best), vs TB- 0- 1- 0 with a run grade of 3.2 (2nd best). and vs Sea- 1- 1- 3 with a run grade of 0.1. Not sure what side he would be better on.
 
Smith's two starts were at RG, and in a 3rd game, he came in after 3 snaps. While his pass protect was worse on the right, his run block was better, vs Tenn- 1 sack, 0 hits, 3 hurries with a run grade of 4.1 (his best), vs TB- 0- 1- 0 with a run grade of 3.2 (2nd best). and vs Sea- 1- 1- 3 with a run grade of 0.1. Not sure what side he would be better on.

I hope the coaches find out before the start of training camp. I hope this year the team uses training camp for the offensive line to gel instead of using it to experiment with.
 
I Don't see how anyone can say the line will not be improved....at a minimum the tackles are greatly improved.

The biggest question is whether we have guards that can do the job.

No doubt Albert is a big uprade but, cant't be sure on James until he shows it on the field. As you say, both OG's are questions as well. Too may questions on unproven talent to say we have improved. JMO
 
I hope the coaches find out before the start of training camp. I hope this year the team uses training camp for the offensive line to gel instead of using it to experiment with.

Completely argee. It's gonna be Tuff Enough for the OG's to learn and fit in to a new system and coach without moving them side to side. With the competition, that is likely to happen early but, as you say, hopefully Benten can lock in to where each is best early, and not drag on.
 
Doesn't Chris Williams play OT whereas Smith plays OG? I think Smith backed up both Rodger Safford and Harvey Dahl.

To further break down your stats on Smith in pass protection.
Smith took 124 snaps in pass protection at right guard and gave up two sacks, three hits and nine hurries. In his 76 pass protection snaps at left guard, Smith allowed zero sacks, one qb hit and three hurries.
Smith was a detriment in pass protection about 11% of the time at right guard and only about 5% of the time at left guard.
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/03/17/miami-dolphins-may-have-gotten-steal-in-shelley-smith/

Ya I'm aware, he's definitely shown better on the left side. Still think the sample size is too small and if he's consistently worked at RG he could full well improve there. And nope, Chris Williams was moved to guard.
 
No doubt Albert is a big uprade but, cant't be sure on James until he shows it on the field. As you say, both OG's are questions as well. Too may questions on unproven talent to say we have improved. JMO

If James isn't better than Clabo day one...we wasted the 19th pick.
 
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