Statistical Evidence of Shoddy Coaching / Coaching Lost This Game | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Statistical Evidence of Shoddy Coaching / Coaching Lost This Game

Originally posted by FinaticalOne


WRONG WRONG WRONG.

What are these stats trying to prove. You need to check those stats you posted again. I just counted 9 tackles by DBs out of the 27 you mentioned. These DBs included (S Rodney Harrison, S Chris Akins and CB Eugene Wilson). Rodney Harrison had 4 of those tackles by himself. You just made the presence of extra men in the box evident (thanks to your stats). The stats you just presented shows that the DB's made 1/3 of those takles at the line of scrimmage. Even if they only had 3 tackles (which we now know is not the case here), their presence in the box confuses blocking schemes and gives them quicker reaction time to pluggin' the gaps, they don't have to make the tackles, all they have to do is make sure Ricky has nowhere to run which is what they did all game.

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Would you please click HERE and tell me where you get your stats?
 
Originally posted by FinaticalOne
Sorry everyone, this is going to be a long post....the lawyer is about to come out of me.

Ok first FINFANINBUFF, let's stop putting up smokescreens and get back to the root of the matter in this thread.

Before you jumped into the topic on this thread. We were talking about shoddy coaching decisions. MAINLY about Norv Tuner being TOO PREDICTABLE on first and second downs. Before the Pats game, we averaged running the ball a ridiculous 65% of the time on those downs, but against the Pats we ran a sickening 72% on those downs. PREDICTABLE? YES!

Now Belichick has been quoted in different media columns on his post game comments about knowing the percentage (65%) of run plays we call on first and second downs, so Belichick admit to, and I quote, "crowding the box on their running downs, plugging every gap hoping to bounce Ricky to the outside." Belichick admits this....this is a fact. It can't be disputed because he admits it. But you go and post this.....

and I quote you from another thread........
"Please check your facts. We are not getting beat by 8 or 9 in the box. That is wishful thinking. Rodney Harrison was busy covering McMichael and the WRs were not single covered all day. Our O-line is getting beat by athletic d-lines. We need to get Ruddy and Nails out of the lineup for McKinney and Dixon."

He wasn't busy covering McMichael on first down because we ran the ball 72% of the time on first down. So I guess Belichick is lying, huh?

Then we have people from our beloved Finheaven forum try to tell you the same thing, but you still don't want to listen, here is one that was directed at you from that same thread.....

From Phins 13... quote:
I was at the game and there were 8 guys in the box and for the most part they had a safety near the line of scrimmage all day......just like Jax,Buff, Giants,Jets and Hou. .........Starting to get the picture here! They(and I mean the rest of the teams on our schedule) will have the same plan until we show that we can score T.Ds throwing the football.

So you try to find stats out there to prove your point. So you go and put those stats up to prove that, since DL's and LB's made most of those tackles that they couldn't possibly be crowding the box ....am I right?

After it has been made painfully evident that the box was crowded by not only a FinFan who was at the game in person, but also by the head coach of the Pats who devised the scheme and went public about it after the game, you still don't understand. Or is it, you don't want to understand.....

I quote you once again.....
"Can you please explain to me why there were so few tackles near the line of scrimmage by safeties then? RW was tackled for 3 yds or less 18 times. A safety made a solo tackle ONCE!!!!! A safety assisted on a tackle ONCE!!!! Thats two for the whole game!!!!"
"15 of the 18 tackles were made by D Linemen. Can you please explain to me why a defense would put 8 men in the box when 4 will do the job?"
"I don't care how many men are in the box. The front 4 of the defense are kicking our butts."
"Anyone care to explain this?"

It's been explained to you in previous posts over and over again by myself, DaFins. Phins12 and Bill Belichick, but you still don't understand. The point is they crowded the box on first and second downs making it hard for else to get any positive yards, as a result; we were stuck in third and long situations the whole game. Turner was TOO PREDICTABLE, they crowed the box on first and second down and we ran the ball 72% on those downs. Now, was Norv predictable? Hell yes!!!!!

Go back and read the posts on this thread from DaFins and I about crowding the box will confuse blocking schemes. Doing this will force the o-line to make a decision on who to block. Crowding the box will give the D a quicker reaction time to plug every hole, leaving Ricky nowhere to run.

Now I've tried to explain this to you the best way I can (Football 101). If you don't get it now, unfortunately for you; you never will. Take it easy.
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Wow, very nice explanation! Not to mention that 8 up allows the DL and LBs to fill different gaps on each play causing even more confusion, ala Vinny Barbarino !! :lol:
You keep upstate covered and i'll do my best down here in slower lower !!! ;)
 
Originally posted by ZOD


Would you please click HERE and tell me where you get your stats?
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FinFanInBuffalo put some stats up in the thread earlier, so I was basing my comments off his stats.
 
PPFFFFTTTT......

Gap responsibility?

I knew I missed a post somewhere.

I'm in the same discussion (on a similar side to you) on another thread.

Congratulations! You posted the book that I didn't want to.

Then again, I am drinking my second beer and ready to pass out after 26 hours and no sleep (night shift).
 
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Originally posted by DeDolfan


Wow, very nice explanation! Not to mention that 8 up allows the DL and LBs to fill different gaps on each play causing even more confusion, ala Vinny Barbarino !! :lol:
You keep upstate covered and i'll do my best down here in slower lower !!! ;)
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Thanks!!!

:lol: I got you up north. You hold it down in lower:lol:
 
And my opinion was that we are getting beat at the point of attack by the D Line. Apparently our coach agrees since he is now talking about exactly the same O Line changes that I did.

The point I was making is that since their D Line was making all of the tackles, our O Line was not blocking them and it really didn't matter how close the safeties are because they aren't making the plays.

You can't possibly expect me to believe that our O Line is not the biggest factor in our lack of a running game this year.

In conclusion, we were facing similar defenses last year and they didn't work. We didn't gain 1850 yds by surprise. Everyone knew we were going ro run last year and we did it anyway because the O Line executed their blocks.
 
Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo
we were facing similar defenses last year and they didn't work. We didn't gain 1850 yds by surprise. Everyone knew we were going ro run last year and we did it anyway because the O Line executed their blocks.
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The draw plays worked last year.

A DRAW!

Do you know what that is or what it threatens with perception in an instant?

Now they just say "F*ck it. They're gonna run."
 
Originally posted by ZOD


Now they just say "F*ck it. They're gonna run."
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to add to that, since the OLine is non existant, they say "they're gonna run but even if they pass we'll be there before he throws it!":tongue:
 
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Speaking of poor coaching, did anyone read where Wanny gave Mare and the holder and snapper the CHOICE of whether or not they wanted to practice off the dirt infield last week and they declined to do so?
Gave them the CHOICE???
He's the damned HEAD COACH...TELL them to practice off the infield! God, he's without a doubt the worst head coach in the league. If we didn't have loads of talent on D, he wouldn't have kept his job one season.
 
Originally posted by RikWriter
Speaking of poor coaching, did anyone read where Wanny gave Mare and the holder and snapper the CHOICE of whether or not they wanted to practice off the dirt infield last week and they declined to do so?
Gave them the CHOICE???
He's the damned HEAD COACH...TELL them to practice off the infield! God, he's without a doubt the worst head coach in the league. If we didn't have loads of talent on D, he wouldn't have kept his job one season.
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Amazing, ain't it??!!
 
Originally posted by ZOD
PPFFFFTTTT......

Gap responsibility?

I knew I missed a post somewhere.

I'm in the same discussion (on a similar side to you) on another thread.

Congratulations! You posted the book that I didn't want to.

Then again, I am drinking my second beer and ready to pass out after 26 hours and no sleep (night shift).
Click to expand...


:lol: Thanks!

I tried, but it looks like he/she will never grasp it.:confused:

I see the same confusion is goin' on over in that other thread w/you as well. :lol: Good Luck!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by FinaticalOne



:lol: Thanks!

I tried, but it looks like he/she will never grasp it.:confused:

I see the same confusion is goin' on over in that other thread w/you as well. :lol: Good Luck!!!!!!
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There is no confusion. You believe (if I may paraphrase) that our running game woes are due to defenses stacking the LOS and our QBs inability to make defenses pay for that.

I believe our running game woes are due to the O Line not blocking well. As I said in an earlier post "we'll have to agree to disagree".

Don't pass it off as my not understanding your point. I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree. Why does my choosing a different explanation imply to you that I don't understand?

I even identified the two players that seemed to be having the most trouble (IMO).

The coach seems to agree with me since he singled out the exact two linemen that I did. There may be changes at LG and center, EXACTLY as I suggested:

Dixon -> Nails
McKinney -> Ruddy
 
QUOTE]Originally posted by FinaticalOne


Everyone agrees the line play has to improve, but it all starts w/Norv's play-calling as well. It's too predictable, and it doesn't matter who is on the line, if a defense knows what you are going to do, nine out of 10 times they will stop you. [/QUOTE]

Last year we ran the ball extremely well as I remember, and every team in the NFL knew we were going to run. They all tried and for the most part they were unsuccessful in stopping the run. Norv's game plan is the same this year as last year's, so what is the difference?

IMO the somewhat underachieving OL..

Thank GOD we still have many games left to get it straighten out..

GOOO FINNZ!

:yell: :yell: :spank:
 
Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo


There is no confusion. You believe (if I may paraphrase) that our running game woes are due to defenses stacking the LOS and our QBs inability to make defenses pay for that.

I believe our running game woes are due to the O Line not blocking well. As I said in an earlier post "we'll have to agree to disagree".

Don't pass it off as my not understanding your point. I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree. Why does my choosing a different explanation imply to you that I don't understand?

I even identified the two players that seemed to be having the most trouble (IMO).

The coach seems to agree with me since he singled out the exact two linemen that I did. There may be changes at LG and center, EXACTLY as I suggested:

Dixon -> Nails
McKinney -> Ruddy
Click to expand...

Not once did I ever mention that our QB can't make them pay when they crowd the LOS. So where did you get that from? If anything, he's not given a chance to make them pay when we're running the ball 72% of the time when they do crowd the LOS. The whole thread and all of my post had to do with....once again.....NORV'S PREDICTABILITY.....how many times do I have to say it.:fire: I have also stated that the o-line is not blocking well and in that aspect being predictable in the playcalling, 72% run plays on first and second downs only makes the problem much worse. Why would a coach use a vanilla offense if his line isn't blocking well in the first place? My point is he should spread the defense out more using a different formation other than the max protect which everyone knows that formation is built mainly for running plays and when a defense sees the max protect they will crowd the LOS. Using that formation compounds the problem. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of watching our offense play in a shell.

So yes, I do dimiss you as not being able to understand, because you are still misquoting me. Go back and read my posts, did I ever mention our QB being ineffective?

I have no problem with you disagreeing, that's what this board is all about, people sharing different views. But for you to come in and tell people who watched the game in person and who agree the Pats crowded the LOS, plus when it has been made more obvious on the fact that Belichick admitts to "crowding the box on their running downs" and then for you to tell people that they are wrong, that it never happened is ludacris. That is my main point of view towards you.

I don't think no one on this board disagees with you on the o-line is blocking badly. I've always thought our o-line was average anyway, even when Mark Dixon is in the lineup. I have a problem with Norv not being creative enough with his play-calling. If he could be creative enough to make the defense second guess themselves, it would give our average o-line an advantage.

The #1 factor in football is DECEPTION. The team who can better disguise what they are doing, will win everytime. That's a fact.

So no hard feelings towards you FinFanInBuffalo, we are on the same bandwagon.:cool:
 
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