Sunday vs. Giants and Passing the Ball

[The Bopkin]

The Miami Herald did a story this morning featuring Chris Chambers talking about this Sunday's game vs. Giants. He sounded very confident and excited about the Dolphins' passing game vs. the Giants pass defense. He is looking for (and expecting) some big plays. My question is this: Can Fiedler get the ball to Chambers vs. the Giants D? We all know about Jay's accuracy on the long ball, and his (maybe overblown, but it's still there)slight propensity to toss an untimely interception. It is apparent that Miami will try to throw the ball some on Sunday. How do you guys think the Dolphns will fair doing this in the Meadowlands(remember, although the Giants pass D is ranked last, it's a bit too early to take those numbers too seriously- we were 30th until the Bills!)

 

[Rick 1966]

I think it's mostly a smoke screen. I think they throw a couple long passes in the beginning to try to make the Giants think they are going pass-happy, then they start a steady diet of Ricky.

 

[Danikus]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dolphins have a huge passing game this week. People just absolutely refuse to give Fiedler any credit at all. After watching the Buffalo tape a few times, it is obvious that we are close to hitting on a lot of those big plays. Fieldler did make a couple of bad decisions, but he also made some excellent throws. The long pass that he missed to Chambers was only off by a step, not five yards over his head. On some other plays the receivers have to help the QB out, this is true on every single NFL team. I f Thompson and McKnight step up this game, Fiedler gets 300 yds.

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by Danikus
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dolphins have a huge passing game this week. People just absolutely refuse to give Fiedler any credit at all.

That's because he hasn't earned it.

 

[Danikus]

Originally posted by RikWriter


That's because he hasn't earned it.

Whatever

I know it's the old BS that the Dolphins win in spite of him and lose because of him, right? I'm not one to say that he is a Pro Bowl QB, but to say that he hasn't earned any credit is an ignorant statement.

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by Danikus


Whatever

I know it's the old BS that the Dolphins win in spite of him and lose because of him, right? I'm not one to say that he is a Pro Bowl QB, but to say that he hasn't earned any credit is an ignorant statement.

No, it's an accurate statement. He has earned credit for toughness, but certainly not for accuracy or passing ability. I would be willing to wager that if you ask any defensive coordinator in the league what he gameplans against the Dolphins for and he will tell you "Ricky Williams." Not one would say "Jay Fiedler's passing."
Sorry if this offends you, but it's the truth.

 

[phinphan]

Originally posted by Danikus


Whatever

I know it's the old BS that the Dolphins win in spite of him and lose because of him, right? I'm not one to say that he is a Pro Bowl QB, but to say that he hasn't earned any credit is an ignorant statement.

Well Thiesman said against the bills that he thinks that Jay has the chance to be a top 5 QB in this league. The main thing that I like about Jay is that he gets better every year. His passer rating has steadily increase every year in Miami:-

2000 74.5
2001 80.3
2002 85.2

Jay won't ever be another Marino..get over it. However, he is solid now, and continues to get better. He has 5 TDs so far this year, a figure better than most would have expected. His 4 ints are a little misleading due to the hail mary balloons. Put those figures in perspective and a 5-2 ratio is pretty efficient. Jay miscues from time to time, but on the whole he is doing what he needs to do. If Derrius Thompson steps up, this offense is in good shape.

As for the deep ball, Jay is stilling missing some opportunities. However, he seems to be 'just missing' now, and is getting closer to some perfect strikes.

 

[phinfan_1]

Originally posted by RikWriter
I think it's mostly a smoke screen. I think they throw a couple long passes in the beginning to try to make the Giants think they are going pass-happy, then they start a steady diet of Ricky.

I agree, but it would be nice to see him throw for alot of yards but I doubt it. I don't think Miami has really had a big passing game since Fiedler has been here. But I much rather them run the ball and control the clock than passing it and having 3 and out.

 

[Danikus]

Originally posted by RikWriter


No, it's an accurate statement. He has earned credit for toughness, but certainly not for accuracy or passing ability. I would be willing to wager that if you ask any defensive coordinator in the league what he gameplans against the Dolphins for and he will tell you "Ricky Williams." Not one would say "Jay Fiedler's passing."

Wow, what a profound observation! You probably got that one right.

Btw I'm not offended. But it does bother me that some people on this board, like yourself, refuse to give Fiedler credit when he does play well. Sure no one can question his toughness, but he does make good plays, and obviously enough of them to win.

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by phinphan


Well Thiesman said against the bills that he thinks that Jay has the chance to be a top 5 QB in this league.


Theissman also said last year in the Fins/Broncos game that he expected those two teams to meet again in the AFC Championship game. Neither team made the playoffs. Theissman is usually full of crap.


Jay won't ever be another Marino..get over it.


I don't need him to be another Marino. I would settle for him being another Brad Johnson. But he isn't that good a passer.


However, he is solid now, and continues to get better.


Actually, he seems to have regressed this year. He looked like he was getting better last year, before the injury, but now he seems to be back to his 2001 form.


As for the deep ball, Jay is stilling missing some opportunities. However, he seems to be 'just missing' now, and is getting closer to some perfect strikes.

He isn't a rookie, or a first-year starter. If he isn't hitting the deep balls by this point in his career, he never will.

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by Danikus


Wow, what a profound observation! You probably got that one right.

Btw I'm not offended. But it does bother me that some people on this board, like yourself, refuse to give Fiedler credit when he does play well. Sure no one can question his toughness, but he does make good plays, and obviously enough of them to win.

I give Jay a ton of credit for those things he does, in fact, do well: scrambling, throwing short passes on the run and running the ball. I won't give him credit for arm strength or accuracy because he lacks those qualities. The fact that he has helped win us some games (the Raiders game a couple years ago comes to mind) doesn't obviate the reality that his lack of arm strength and inaccuracy have cost us more games than he has won for us.

 

[rickykicks@$$]

I think we need to use Jays arm sparingly at best. Our strenght is Ricky , and there's nothing wrong with that. If Jay could keep the int's down we will be a very tough team to beat on the road or home.
Bringing in Turk I hope will give our ST a boost and we can conrrol the clock. I thought that we beat a very good Jills team until the Eagles beat them. I dont think the Eagles are a good team at all,yet they beat the Jills in Buff. This worrys me more then a little bit. I dont think the Eagles will even make the playoff's.

Now this does not mean much at this point, but I thought that the Jills were not as good as the first two games. The way the NFL is these days it's so hard to get a grasp on who is a pretender and who's a contender until late in the year. Even if we win this Sunday against the Giants I won't be sold on the Fins, they have a long way to go.

 

[zach13]

Originally posted by RikWriter


his lack of arm strength and inaccuracy have cost us more games than he has won for us.

I have to disagree.


How many games have the Dolphins lost because of Jay's passing?

First, you have to acknowledge Jay's stellar record as a starter.

Second, in the games we have lost with Jay at the helm, in how many of them would you pin the blame on Jay?

Not the New England game last year which was a coaching and Special tteams meltdown.

Not the Minnesota game, when our defense could not get the Minn. offense off of the field and our offense scored on every 2nd half possession.

Not the Kansas City game where the defense could not cover Gonzalez. Jay gets a share of that one for throwing picks but it could not be said that he cost us the game.

Not the Houston game where the whole team came out flat particularly the D-line and the secondary.


Tell me which games Fiedler has cost us?

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by zachseau13

I have to disagree.


How many games have the Dolphins lost because of Jay's passing?

First, you have to acknowledge Jay's stellar record as a starter.

Second, in the games we have lost with Jay at the helm, in how many of them would you pin the blame on Jay?

Not the New England game last year which was a coaching and Special tteams meltdown.

Not the Minnesota game, when our defense could not get the Minn. offense off of the field and our offense scored on every 2nd half possession.

Not the Kansas City game where the defense could not cover Gonzalez. Jay gets a share of that one for throwing picks but it could not be said that he cost us the game.

Not the Houston game where the whole team came out flat particularly the D-line and the secondary.


Tell me which games Fiedler has cost us?

You misunderstood my post. I didn't say Fiedler has lost games for us (though he has personally lost at least a couple in his tenure here---the loss to the Jets at home in 2001 comes to mind), I said his lack of arm strength and inaccuracy have cost us games. In other words, if we had a QB who could throw the long ball accurately, we would have won some games we lost. This doesn't mean it was Fiedler's FAULT that we lost...in all the games you mentioned, it was failures on the defense and special teams that cost us. What it does mean is that if we had a QB who could throw the long ball accurately, we could have won those games despite the problems on D and special teams.
That's what a top-tier QB does for a team: wins them games when the rest of the team is having a bad day.
We don't have that, and though we may be able to work around it, it would be a hell of a lot easier if we didn't have to.

 

[zach13]

Originally posted by RikWriter


You misread my post. (

I did not misread your post. If you meant to say that were Fiedler a top QB he could have won for us some games that we lost then you should have done so.

What you said was the following "his lack of arm strength and inaccuracy have cost us more games than he has won for us" which clearly seems to place the blame on Fiedler.

However, if your point was that if Fiedler were an elite QB we would have won more games, there are several problems with your argument.

An elite QB would command a much higher salary than Fiedler and you would have to give up one of your other stars on the team. Bowens? Madison? Surtain? Under that scenario you might lose more games. It is possible.

Further, I could make the same argument at several positions - If James McKnight were Terrell Owens we might have won several more games, if Morlon Greenwood were Lawrence Taylor we might have won several more games...