**Super Thread** Clowney/Tunsil Trade Rumor (merged too many times)

[Phinatic8u]

All other factors aside, we don't know what additional pieces are involved with the FOs plan.

Yes, worst case we pay two years of tags.

But saving some high draft resources to address a long term need with a player entering his prime while paying salary isn't a complete bafoon move we still need a lot of pieces

Picks and money is all we have as a football team. Trying to save one lends itself to eventually using the other.

This is just a move to get an audition for a possible long term piece. Somewhat similar to the Rosen deal.

I didn't say sign him long term immediately like TB would do. But I think the real value is the assessment.

In one year you either have a player to build around or an already stated need to address.

We DO have to eventually spend money. Saving for the sake of saving is idiotic.

You have to assess opportunities as they present within your long term plan.

If JC is an elite DE entering his prime and wants to be here .... We don't want him because we didn't draft him? Because this isn't Year 2 when we planned to draft a cornerstone DE?

QB, DE, CB and LT. Those are your prototypical elite pieces in team building.

Rosen?
JC?
X
Tunsil

We have two. Keep firing when you get a chance . Don't wreck your plan...but be shrewd.

Rosen was shrewd. Rosen deals don't grow on trees. JC isn't a picture perfect deal. But it is an opportunity. It must be weighed

Keep firing until you hit

If Rosen and JC prove out to be what we need, in five years these will be considered genius forward thinking moves.

If they don't and we deal responsibly, we are still looking and trying to win.

You can't save for the sake of saving

Bottom line is sustained winning...building

When a piece falls into your lap (Tunsil, Rosen, . JC?)... You must be ready to act

This is good discussion right here and my exact thoughts.

Saving money or draft picks is stupid when you have the chance to use them on a proven elite NFL talent. Go get him and pay him, and lets enjoy watching this defense be pretty damn respectable.

 

[Ray R]

I need all the help I can get.

 

[Blake the great]

It’s been mentioned here before, but the cornerstones of NFL teams are generally QB, LT, CB, and DE.

Shy of trading away one to acquire another, I think we might be a little hasty with the torches and pitchforks.

Not when your getting an under achieving, injury prone, money hungry player in return and the player you're giving up is still ascending.

Clowney is all about the money and overrated. He hardly played his junior year in college so he can make money in the NFL. Least I hope that's true because he had a whopping 3 sacks that year. This would be a total dolphins move.

 

[Greer17]

I have seen other players rumored to be a part of this deal and it was R. Jones, K. Stills, K. Drake and possibly a low round draft pick. This trade would make a lot more sense to me. Even if Clowney doesn't play a down for us, we could dump Jones' and Stills' bloated contracts, let Clowney walk in FA and then pick up a compensatory draft pick. This would be more like an NBA move than a normal play in the NFL, but would help us monetarily.

 

[andyahs]

Not when your getting an under achieving, injury prone, money hungry player in return and the player you're giving up is still ascending.

Clowney is all about the money and overrated. He hardly played his junior year in college so he can make money in the NFL. Least I hope that's true because he had a whopping 3 sacks that year. This would be a total dolphins move.

Who are we giving up? Tunsil has already been ruled out as an option.

 

[Sean]

Who are we giving up? Tunsil has already been ruled out as an option.

Drake & Stills are both being mentioned per Jackson.

 

[andyahs]

Drake & Stills are both being mentioned per Jackson.

He said the player we are giving up. I want to know which player he is talking about.

 

[NBP81]

This is a standard approach and a correct one.

I will say the overpay for an elite talent at a position of need is much better than the whiff at DE in round 1. Has happened twice now in two attempts

Team needed to consider Trey Flowers a little more in FA.

But I also think they have this feeling they think they can be real good on defense and special teams, but there is a glaring hole at DE that has put a wrench in those plans.

But the question remains do you have the QB and OLine to take this type of gamble? I don't think they do tbh, not to say those 6 guys can't become that but not to the point of gambling on Clowney, not this year.

Maybe they feel the $16 million dollar tag is worth seeing if he can ascend to the top of the DE mountain in this system and they can convert that into a first or more or he shows he is worthy of 5/$100 and you don't have to stress DE next draft.

This definitely feels like a Kawhi Leonard move . . . Except much more doubt that a ring is in play.

And if we touching draft capital . . .I really lose all hope for this FO, and we haven't even started the season.

Like I said in a previous post, the move itself isnt bad per say, its the situation and how it fits with what they've done this off-season up to this point thats triggers red flags all over. The Rosen trade was a good move but its kind of losing some of its luster when you couple it with the fact they have done absolutely nothing about the OL following it.

"But I also think they have this feeling they think they can be real good on defense and special teams, but there is a glaring hole at DE that has put a wrench in those plans."

This is another aspect that reeks of panic. The pass rushing DE isnt a new problem, they knew this all along and they suddenly wake up and want to fix it 2 weeks before the season starts.

In this case its not that they want to trade for that specific player that worries me, its the fact that much like years past, there doesnt seem to be a method, or a plan to success for a lack of better words. It feels like someone throwing darts.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Clowney is a disruptive force on a per play basis and his run stopping ability is more impressive than his pass rushing skills.

Go watch him destroy the Colts OL the entire game. Pleasure to watch.

Drake, Stills and a 3rd is absolutely perfect.

 

[Aqua and Orange]

But I also think they have this feeling they think they can be real good on defense and special teams, but there is a glaring hole at DE that has put a wrench in those plans.

I think THIS is the answer to the "Why?!?!?!" question everyone is looking for. The defense as it stands is at least close to being good. The talent is there, they were just run by an ape last year. So you spend this offseason shoring up the positions of weakness on that side of the ball and roll out into the season hoping that squad delivers to keep scores low. If it succeeds, a big part of your rebuild is helped and the team has the luxury of using the draft to add chess pieces on offense.

I really do think that Chris Grier's plan is "Year 1 - Fix the already young and talented defense with a better scheme and D-minded head coach. Year 2 - Fix the offense with new talent. Year 3 - Plug remaining holes." This is obviously an oversimplification, but I could see something like this being sold to Ross as he drools and stares out of the window to look at pretty birdies.

 

[Phinatic8u]

I think THIS is the answer to the "Why?!?!?!" question everyone is looking for. The defense as it stands is at least close to being good. The talent is there, they were just run by an ape last year. So you spend this offseason shoring up the positions of weakness on that side of the ball and roll out into the season hoping that squad delivers to keep scores low. If it succeeds, a big part of your rebuild is helped and the team has the luxury of using the draft to add chess pieces on offense.

I really do think that Chris Grier's plan is "Year 1 - Fix the already young and talented defense with a better scheme and D-minded head coach. Year 2 - Fix the offense with new talent. Year 3 - Plug remaining holes." This is obviously an oversimplification, but I could see something like this being sold to Ross as he drools and stares out of the window to look at pretty birdies.

This defense won't bee good until there's a disruptive force on the DL.

Clowney is that, add him and watch the team be pretty solid.

 

[Adam First]

Clowney is a disruptive force on a per play basis and his run stopping ability is more impressive than his pass rushing skills.

Go watch him destroy the Colts OL the entire game. Pleasure to watch.

Drake, Stills and a 3rd is absolutely perfect.

I'd do that trade. Not sure if the Texans would, though. Maybe they can take this free Kiko Alonso?

 

[TannDaMan17]

This defense won't bee good until there's a disruptive force on the DL.

Clowney is that, add him and watch the team be pretty solid.

Naw it'll be good regardless, Harris is looking like a completely different player this preseason and I like what Tank and Orchard can bring from the edge.

Godchaux and Wilkins have great potential playing together, and Taylor is an excellent back up.

The LB's and Secondary aren't bad either (lots of potential there), but having said all that Clowney takes this D to a COMPLETELY different level...

 

[NBP81]

They explained their new philosophy when Grier got the job... Build through the draft, dont spend on big name FAs. What do you know, the first big name to pop out, Fins are in the lead for his services... You cant make this **** up...

Any duffus with cap space can aquire FAs, the point is having Clowney type players on rookie contracts, not aquiring them when they're about to break the bank...

 

[The Ghost]

Not when your getting an under achieving, injury prone, money hungry player in return and the player you're giving up is still ascending.

Clowney is all about the money and overrated. He hardly played his junior year in college so he can make money in the NFL. Least I hope that's true because he had a whopping 3 sacks that year. This would be a total dolphins move.

In fairness, he prefers the Eagles and Seahawks to us so maybe he wants to win more than people think?
He's 3rd in the NFL in tackles for loss over the last 3 years and only missed 3 games in that span. He doesn't need to be the No.1 pick in the draft for us, that ship has sailed on Houston. I am not advocating using our 1st or 2nd but for New Orleans 2nd + a WR or Drake it's a solid value. Anything less then that would be a steal.