**Super Thread** Clowney/Tunsil Trade Rumor (merged too many times)

[Aqua and Orange]

This defense won't bee good until there's a disruptive force on the DL.

Clowney is that, add him and watch the team be pretty solid.

Exactly what I was going for. Clowney goes a real long way toward shoring up that side of the ball. There seems to be a pretty serious plan in place for the defense.

TBH the offense to me looks like "we will address this next year". In the meantime the way I see it we have a lot of lottery tickets. Rosen, Preston Williams, Gesicki, the rooks on the O-line...they will be given every shot to go out and prove they belong and if they fail like a lottery ticket they are cheap and disposable. Kind of a dark way of putting it, but this league is a business and this franchise is more starved for talent than most.

 

[susser2000]

This defense won't bee good until there's a disruptive force on the DL.

Clowney is that, add him and watch the team be pretty solid.

I thought this same thing about Suh and that didn't change anything. I do think this defense has more good young players and I am all for trading for Clowney (if he's willing to sign an extension).

 

[Aqua and Orange]

They explained their new philosophy when Grier got the job... Build through the draft, dont spend on big name FAs. What do you know, the first big name to pop out, Fins are in the lead for his services... You cant make this **** up...

Agreed. To be fair, I remember when Grier said that it was part of a big "this is a long term plan, we won't be good overnight" sentiment they were hammering left and right to keep fan expectations in check. My guess is they make exceptions when opportunities like this come along (and at this point they could just be kicking the tires).

It also might mean the team thinks the D is further along than they originally suspected. With a drastic scheme change, everyone on that side of the ball has been given a clean slate to show what they've got. If the growing sentiment is "Oh damn, we could actually be really good this year...we are just a player or two away on this side of the ball", that changes things.

By the way, a shiver went down my spine as I typed "We are just a player away". I fully understand how many times we have heard THAT idiotic thought these past decades.

 

[spiketex]

I'm totally comfortable in pursuing Clowney if we don't have to give up too much. This is a time for Chris Grier to play hardball in what we are prepared to give up, if Clowney is prepared to sign a long term contract. We either buy a big time DE/linebacker who fits the new Defensive system now or next year or invest a very high Draftpick in one next year (historically pretty high risk of a bust, eg Dion Jordan).
The addition of the Big Clown could make our Defense seriously good. Still have holes on Offense, like the O-line, but maybe Flores and Grier make the call that this season, the priority is to establish a really good Defense.

 

[The Ghost]

Drake, Stills and a 3rd is absolutely perfect.

I like Drake the rookie contract player, I am not sure I am going to like the Drake making $8-9 Million a year. Stills has to inevitably move on and make room for Grant, Williams and the future WRing corp of the Dolphins. I wouldn't cut him, makes no sense too. Getting value in a trade for him would be ideal..

Preston Williams, Kallen Ballage and Josh Rosen bought this team some flexibility with the cap over the next 3 years.

Laremy Tunsil, our 1st and OUR 2nd, not in play. Anything less they should be able to make the deal. I think it has more to do with Clowney agreeing to it.

 

[John813]

Do the Texans value Stills?

They have Hopkins, Fuller and Coutee.

 

[NBP81]

My guess is they make exceptions when opportunities like this come along (and at this point they could just be kicking the tires).

When you have no discipline, everything looks like an exception... Building through the draft and running a thight ship requires patience and discipline... Them even considering this move tells you all you need to know about Grier's skill level in those departements...

 

[tay0365]

All other factors aside, we don't know what additional pieces are involved with the FOs plan.

Yes, worst case we pay two years of tags.

But saving some high draft resources to address a long term need with a player entering his prime while paying salary isn't a complete bafoon move we still need a lot of pieces

Picks and money is all we have as a football team. Trying to save one lends itself to eventually using the other.

This is just a move to get an audition for a possible long term piece. Somewhat similar to the Rosen deal.

I didn't say sign him long term immediately like TB would do. But I think the real value is the assessment.

In one year you either have a player to build around or an already stated need to address.

We DO have to eventually spend money. Saving for the sake of saving is idiotic.

You have to assess opportunities as they present within your long term plan.

If JC is an elite DE entering his prime and wants to be here .... We don't want him because we didn't draft him? Because this isn't Year 2 when we planned to draft a cornerstone DE?

QB, DE, CB and LT. Those are your prototypical elite pieces in team building.

Rosen?
JC?
X
Tunsil

We have two. Keep firing when you get a chance . Don't wreck your plan...but be shrewd.

Rosen was shrewd. Rosen deals don't grow on trees. JC isn't a picture perfect deal. But it is an opportunity. It must be weighed

Keep firing until you hit

If Rosen and JC prove out to be what we need, in five years these will be considered genius forward thinking moves.

If they don't and we deal responsibly, we are still looking and trying to win.

You can't save for the sake of saving

Bottom line is sustained winning...building

When a piece falls into your lap (Tunsil, Rosen, . JC?)... You must be ready to act

Very well said.

 

[Vaark]

The latest is that Clowney doesn't want to come here but O'Brien as the de facto GM (as ridiculous as that is) wants to send him to his old buddy Flores for spite.

Sure we could franchise Clowney at the expense of someone else to keep him here beyond 1 year, but he's already disgruntled, fired his agent for letting him think he'd be getting Mack $, so how receptive would he be to staying?

A 1 or 2 year rental on a team that needs so much, while giving up Stills and Drake and a 3rd as alleged sure doesn't help Rosen at all. We can't even negotiate with him until January! And if it doesn't help Rosen, it doesn't help the franchise make an informed opinion of his franchise potential going forward! If he's the Chosen, we can get a promising edge rusher in 2020.

Finally, "he who ignores the past is doomed to repeat it" as in "Suh" who was trying. Who knows what kind of attitude Clowney would have.

This has all the makings of a classic cluster****!

 

[andyahs]

The latest is that Clowney doesn't want to come here but O'Brien as the de facto GM (as ridiculous as that is) wants to send him to his old buddy Flores for spite.

Sure we could franchise Clowney at the expense of someone else to keep him here beyond 1 year, but he's already disgruntled, fired his agent for letting him think he'd be getting Mack $, so how receptive would he be to staying?

A 1 or 2 year rental on a team that needs so much, while giving up Stills and Drake and a 3rd as alleged sure doesn't help Rosen at all. We can't even negotiate with him until January! And if it doesn't help Rosen, it doesn't help the franchise make an informed opinion of his franchise potential going forward! If he's the Chosen, we can get a promising edge rusher in 2020.

Finally, "he who ignores the past is doomed to repeat it" as in "Suh" who was trying. Who knows what kind of attitude Clowney would have.

This has all the makings of a classic cluster****!

What I'm holding on to is Flores apparently met with him so he must have a read on what Clowney wants. I am trusting Flores to do what he believes is right here.

 

[tay0365]

Clowney is a disruptive force on a per play basis and his run stopping ability is more impressive than his pass rushing skills.

Go watch him destroy the Colts OL the entire game. Pleasure to watch.

Drake, Stills and a 3rd is absolutely perfect.

I would not give up a 3rd. Drake and Stills are very good players all by themselves, if a draft pick has to be given, then at best maybe a 5th or 6th...But I would still not feel very comfortable giving that up.

 

[phins_4_ever]

It’s been mentioned here before, but the cornerstones of NFL teams are generally QB, LT, CB, and DE.

Shy of trading away one to acquire another, I think we might be a little hasty with the torches and pitchforks.

Torches and pitchforks are only in play because nobody, at least not me, wants to overpay like we did in the past. I welcome him but only at the right price. No overpaying via trade and no overpaying and dead cap crap onhis salary.

 

[cuzinvinny]

When you have no discipline, everything looks like an exception... Building through the draft and running a thight ship requires patience and discipline... Them even considering this move tells you all you need to know about Grier's skill level in those departements...

No, not that clairvoyant. Actually seems appropriate to actually give Grier and those also in the decision and direction dept. (Flores) the opportunity to do what they were hired to do without limiting their plans ( I mean give these guys at least a year to actually see what they can do).
I don't actually see the same similarities of the past and not so fearful of spending money...Where appropriate...in which IMO Clowney brings appropriate is spades..

Don't see the lack of discipline, but a 26 year old DE stud who if Flores feels as a wanted addition I'm all in. He's definitely already exceeded my expectations of were I thought this team would be at this point and time.

 

[Sean]

Do the Texans value Stills?

They have Hopkins, Fuller and Coutee.

They are saying Coutee may not be ready for the opener.

 

[juicifer1269]

I don’t have a link but Sirius NFL radio reported that the fins offered Kenyon Drake and Kenny Stills for Clowney.
Being that Clowney could be for a 1 year rental, this would be all that I would be willing to trade for Clowney. The fact that we have $120m in cap space next season, we have he money to at least offer a competitive contract.
We are likely 3 years from being competitive, and Clowney would still be under the age of 30 when that happens. If you think about our last 2 pro bowl/HOF pass rushers, Jason Taylor and Cameron’s Wake, both were very good well into their 30s.
At some point we do need to spend money and spending it on a pro bowl pass rusher under the age of 27, we could do worse.