The 2 Players it should come down to that we draft!!!! | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The 2 Players it should come down to that we draft!!!!

Originally posted by TheBostonBomber
How can u say finatic has no basis for his stance??? What more basis do u need then last year! If u think Randall will make our o-line in to what it NEEDS to be ur mistaken. Remember, this team lives and dies with its running game.

Don't try calling me a pretender GM either, I am debating about the team I love on the best website to do it at. Thers nothing wrong with healthy heated debates. Its part of what this site is all about. Anyone disagree??

I respect everyones opinion on this board, if I disagree with you im going to let u know and we can go back and forth.

Also, if I agree with u, I will let u know.

I think your stance is way off base graythreat, and if rick goes ur way(he won't imo) were in for a flash back of last season.
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The quote wasn't directed at you, but we're all in teh same boat. We're all fans with little to no insight to what the oranization is going to do, and we have our opinion's. Where my problem lies is with people saying other people are "stupid" because they want to draft Rivers. It is HIGHLY debatable whether we should go OL in the first, or QB, or even WR. A good case can be made for many positions, including saftey if a certain safety happens to fall. It's ignorant posts like the ones Dolfanatic posts that say "we need to go OL, if you want Rivers your stupid" that I have a problem with.

And we've retooled the OL, what more do you want?

If we get randall we have...


Smith, starting Tackle, will be much better this year after having a decent rookie season.

Mcintosh- Very solid Tackle, coming off of surgery, should be ready by mid season

Randall- Solid starting tackle, started every game for the texans, started for pats during their previous super bowl run

Jeno James- Top Tier guard, great linemen, nuff said there

Mckinney- More than adequate guard, projected starter at center

St. clair- Former all pro center at college. Busted at tackle, but should be damn good on the interior line

Fact remains we have a lot of potential at OL. If we sign Randall, or another starting calibre OT, then we don't HAVE to go OL in the first. ALL of those players are former starters who have shown a thing or two. Mcintosh, Randall, and James are good, Mckinney and St. Clair are oozing with potential, and we know smith has what it takes.

That doesn't make for a hands down we HAVE to draft OL position on draft day. If we get Randall ANY position will be fair game outside of RB. If an incredible value like Rivers falls to you at 20, then you snag him if you already have Randall to complete your line.

Now this is the part where Finatic would say "and your stupid for wanting an OL". But I won't do that. I have no problem with debating, it's ignorant close minded posts that piss me off. Once again, not directed at you.
 
Originally posted by Danny
This board is starting to get very divided here. It seems like if I don;t agree with some one else then I'm stupid. I think everyone has a right to their opinion but no need for name calling. We're all in the same bnoat here, wanting a superbowl.

Ozzy rules!!
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Since it seems this reply is directed towards me i will respond. Having a different opinion is not stupid at all, but saying this team should address an area with a certain player who most likely will not even be available is not exactly the brightest thing to do. Thats all i'm saying. We need a safety but you dont see people going crazy and writing threads and band waggons for Sean Taylor now do you? Not to mention he wont even be available for us to draft, but lets say he was, should we pick him up?

I think that is the case with Rivers, but only different. Rivers is not even the highest rated QB in the draft, may not even be the 2nd best QB in the draft. From mock drafts he is slated to be picked 3rd among QB's

Yet on the other hand we have the chance to take the 2nd best OL in all of the draft. How can you argue that with the way last season went?

almost all of our loses with the exception of 1 or 2 losses were because of our O line, how do you not address it to the point that you can't address it no more?

If Rivers is selected it will be a wasted first round pick for this years roster because he will not start. Same pretty much goes for if we pick a WR. Yes that WR may be our starting 3rd string reciever, but with this team running 2 WR set formations that WR will rarely see the playing field. Thats another wasted pick this year. But the only position in the draft where we can select a stud that can come in and from day one start is OL.

Why is that so hard to see? Who will be cut that will be better then Andrews or Smiley? If they are they will be alot older!! And like Rick said if we are going to spend money on any players they will be younger and faster!! READ THE ARTICLE YOURSELF IF YOU THINK I'M LYING.

This all points to drafting a stud OL in the draft, why will some of you still argue with me and those with the opinion to draft a OL with our 20th pick?

Yes your opinion may not be stupid but the smartest thing this team can do is draft a OL and in my opinion anything other then that is stupid!!

I know everyone will not agree with me, but if the majority do then thats all i need.
 
Well, the point most likely will be rendered moot by Pittsburgh anyway (unfortunately). Andrews will likely be gone as well. If both of these items prove true, then I believe we would be wise to get the third best lineman in the draft - Jake Grove.

For the record I really like Andrews and believe he will be a very good pick (I don't think the weight issue is a big concern), he just isn't going to be there when we pick (could be but i doubt it especially if rumors that his weight is down in the 330 range are true - that would remove all flags from Andrews).

Back to Grove though, I'm definitely not sold on McKinney as the starting center and Grove has that attitude that would fit in perfectly with our line. He could start right away, we could move McKinney to RG immediately and that leaves one hole to fix - the six week void at RT while MCintosh is recuperating. Don't count out McIntosh entirely for this upcoming year. The guy was the LT on the line that blocked for Ladanian Tomlinson. The ankle surgery was serious, but he should be back in time for the season. Worst case scenario he's back for Game 6 (I don't believe he'll miss the year).

For our Superbowl team (which we have been debating for a few posts now), I like the following line:

LT - Smith, FA (Page/Randall)
LG - James, Yates
C - Grove, St. Clair
RG - McKinney, Whitley
RT - McIntosh, Dorsey/Pape

If we get Andrews it changes the makeup significantly. I'm assuming Andrews slides over to RG if we get him in the first. He'll start at RT then move over when McIntosh is healthy, right? That line looks good too:

LT - Smith, Randall/Page
LG - James, Yates
C - McKinney, St. Clair
RG - Andrews, Whitley
RT - McIntosh, Jerman
 
Originally posted by DolFinatic718



Since it seems this reply is directed towards me i will respond. Having a different opinion is not stupid at all, but saying this team should address an area with a certain player who most likely will not even be available is not exactly the brightest thing to do. Thats all i'm saying. We need a safety but you dont see people going crazy and writing threads and band waggons for Sean Taylor now do you? Not to mention he wont even be available for us to draft, but lets say he was, should we pick him up?

I think that is the case with Rivers, but only different. Rivers is not even the highest rated QB in the draft, may not even be the 2nd best QB in the draft. From mock drafts he is slated to be picked 3rd among QB's

Yet on the other hand we have the chance to take the 2nd best OL in all of the draft. How can you argue that with the way last season went?

almost all of our loses with the exception of 1 or 2 losses were because of our O line, how do you not address it to the point that you can't address it no more?

If Rivers is selected it will be a wasted first round pick for this years roster because he will not start. Same pretty much goes for if we pick a WR. Yes that WR may be our starting 3rd string reciever, but with this team running 2 WR set formations that WR will rarely see the playing field. Thats another wasted pick this year. But the only position in the draft where we can select a stud that can come in and from day one start is OL.

Why is that so hard to see? Who will be cut that will be better then Andrews or Smiley? If they are they will be alot older!! And like Rick said if we are going to spend money on any players they will be younger and faster!! READ THE ARTICLE YOURSELF IF YOU THINK I'M LYING.

This all points to drafting a stud OL in the draft, why will some of you still argue with me and those with the opinion to draft a OL with our 20th pick?

Yes your opinion may not be stupid but the smartest thing this team can do is draft a OL and in my opinion anything other then that is stupid!!

I know everyone will not agree with me, but if the majority do then thats all i need.
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1. There is a chance Rivers will fall, and yes, there have been Taylor band wagons.

2. According to all reports, Rivers, Roth, and Eli are in dead heats for the #1 QB in the draft. And besides the point, your saying we should pass on Rivers because he's not the highest rated QB in the draft.....news flash...Andrews isn't the highest rated OL in the draft either buddy.

3. Our problems were with OL AND QB. We have potential at OL, if we get Randall, we'll have 5 starting material OL on our roster, with depth. Something we're sorely lacking at QB. A proven bust, a 3rd string that our FO doesn't want to give a chance, and a 3rd stringer that's started all of 5 games in 3 years. The OL was bad, but the OL didn't over and under throw our receivers last year.

4. Your opinion on OL losing games. I distinctly remember at least one game lost by the D, and a number of games lost due to a KICKER.

5. Did you just rule that all draft picks have to be an immediate starter on the teams that draft them? History shows it's better to groom players in. FA is used for getting starters buddy, the Draft is a means of getting players for the FUTURE.

6. Any starting OL is better than Andrews or smiley, because they've proven they have what it takes to play in the NFL. Andrews or Smily could end up being a bust, both have questionable talent, and are greatly benefiting in their rankings because this year is shallow in OL. Any other year, Andrews is a low first, early 2nd, Smiley is a mid to late 2nd.

7. Gee, a GM lieing about what he's going to do..hmmm........That's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in my life. I specifically remember a statement saying we were NOT PURSUING BOSTON....about 2 weeks later, boston's in a miami Jersey. But let's just forget about that shall we?

8. It's questionable if the majority agrees with you or not

9. Your right, it's your opinion, but this board doesn't allow personal attacks. You calling people stupid for what they believe in is a personal attack. Your supposed to substanciate your claims with facts. You have OPINIONS. I've read some very good arguments for drafting OL high in this years draft, none of which were made by you. Try doing a little research, and come back with solid ground to stand on rather than weak opinion's, and we might take you seriously.
 
Wow this guy is persisten, i wont even qoute you because everyone knows who I am talking about.

I wont go into a long response because you didnt read what i wrote well so therefore you response was weak and misguided. but i will say this.

Rivers is not in a class with Manning dont kid yourself buddy. Rivers and Roth may be closer but thats about it.

Unfortunately QB is a done deal for this team. But Across the Oline the only for sure starter at this very moment seems to be Smith, anyone disagree with that? If rivers was drafted how many think he would start the first game? If Andrews or Smiley was picked how many of you think they would start the first game? Thats what i thought.

I said in my post if you read it correctly which you didn't "almost all of our loses with the exception of 1 or 2" One game being the philly game because of our D, the 2nd game being becuase of our kicker against the pats. Thats 2 games out of 6, and maybe there is one other because of our kicker. Thats 3 losses out of 6 because of something other then Oline, that still gives the Oline 50 percent of our losses now doesnt it? And in those 3 games because of other reasons other then our O line i will bet that our o line was struggling throughout the game which caused us not to put the game away.

Who would you guys rather have? Randal who started all 16 games before or GAllery? Ok ok i know we wont get GAllery so how about Andrews? Even smiley I prefer over Randal, sorry Randal.


Ok i said i wont write a long response and i did it anyway i couldn't help it, but now i am going to bed i am tired

TAG!!!

Your in TheBostonBomber lol
 
nope i wanted just to check in onthe site before i went to bed but have been here for quite a while now.

I do have to disagree with ya finatic on one minor thing, I think jeno james is also a sure starter but other then that there are question marks

As for having randall or andrews/smiley, i would like both. Nothing better than having lots of solid depth at o-line!

im outa here

im outa here.
 
Actually, the numbering system was my respone to each of your paraghraphs in order.

And we have Smith slated as a starter, and for damn sure we have Jeno James, or doesn't he count? We obviously see Mcintosh as our starter for the future, as we gave him a big contract.

And where does Andrews fit into this equation? We have a great guard, and 2 tackles for the future, we have McKinney for center, and St. Clair who has great potential at center, and both of those can play guard if need be. We need a stop gap until McIntosh gets healthy.

Are you suggesting we waste a first round pick on a stop gap Tackle? That's all we need, and we can get that from Randall at the low low price of ZERO draft picks.

Starting to make sense now buddy? Andrews won't start over Smith or Mcintosh when he's healthy, Randall is Andrews for no draft pick, WITH NFL experience AND a superbowl under his belt.

And it's not as clean cut as "the O line". NO line would make holes for Ricky with our passing game last year. They stacked the box, stuffing us, knowing he's all we had. If we had a legitimate QB and WR threat, it would open the box, and our O-line wouldn't have to shoulder as much work. The OL was bad, i grant you that, but if we add a player like Randall, we'll be oozing with young, cheap, hungry players with potential. Everything Andrews is offering us, except it won't cost us the #20 pick in the draft.
 
Heh memories.

Anyways I'll be happy with whoever can be productive from the start of the season whether it be a WR, OL or even a DT/LB.

I only want to go with an OL because out of any position this team can draft only OL would be in there on at least 80% of the snaps. WR, DT, LB I can only see on 30-40% of snaps.
 
O yea i forgot about james, my bad i forgot, but yea he is a definite starter.

But about our first pick. I really like smiley, he is projected to be a pro bowler and he is a true RG. So I would not be mad if the FO selected Smiley and Mcntosh played RT when he became healthy.

Graythreat you keep talking about Randal like he is already on the roster, sorry buddy but he is not.

Maybe we do not select Andrews with out first pick and we pick Smiley, i do not see anything wrong with this. So i am not detracting from what i originally said because we are still selecting a stud O lineman who can come in from day one and produce.

Like i said originally either Andrews or Smiley thats how i see it. Smiley is seen as a sure shot, NO risk pick. Ask around.
 
WELL i like taking lee evans in round 1 and adrian jones in round 3..does that make me wrong .. cause i feel that with getting 3 lineman in the draft last year and 3 more in F/A this year should be enough .. does miami really need to invest more in the draft for 2004 when soooo many questions surround both andrews and rodgers ... adrian jones is a classic athletic lineman this team likes to take ... he would need some seasoning.. but is compared favorable to wade smith athletically ... he could do for the RG spot what smith did for the LT spot last year ... so with that said.. i'm staying on the lee evans bandwagon for round 1 ... this is my opinion.. and guess what it doesn't agree with anyone of you ... SO does it make me wrong... hells no ... we all are entiteled to our opinions ...
 
I think one underlying consensus with all the feuding is that Miami has brought in A LOT of new faces on the line in 2 years (draft and FA). I think because of these MANY additions, some people feel it's time to look at another position. However, others feel, even with all the new faces, we really haven't landed the STUD OLine man. I think with as much emphasis on the run as we have, fans feel we SHOULD have a PACE or OGDEN or etc...
I think we are dejected after losing out on Kreutz, Tait, Woody and a few other BIG names. (BTW, anyone realize Chicago has 2 of those guys....) So dejected that we are tired of seeing all the lesser names enter camp. We still want the STUD.
I know some guys love certain draft prospects at OLine. But, they all won't be STUDS. As a matter of history, you slowly realize that STUD OLineman come along about 1 or 2 per draft. Typically, there a lot of busts. But, there's always the ONE ELITE guy that is considered a "no brainer". Pace and Ogden received that kind of attention. And now, Gallery is receiving it. Fact is, after Gallery, there are so many unknowns with the rest, it is hard to project. The John Elway or Kurt Warner of OLine men could be sitting in the 7th round. It's nothing but a crap shoot.
That said, you can say one guy has MORE upside than the next for this and that reasons... but, he can still fail for the 1 or 2 downside reasons. Only takes 1 reason to make a bad player.

As for us "going to the SB".... well, it's April and all 32 teams have an equal shot to make it. But, first, we need more realistic goals... Division Champ and win a playoff game.

Our fans are no different than the rest. We are all ArmChair QBs and Sofa GMs. From our vantage.. it's so simple. The margin of error is so close, it's like splitting hairs.

As far as who or what we draft at #20, I can see drafting a QB. Although, I would like to have the luxury of a 2nd rounder to pick up the OLine. I think that desparity is what makes our 1st pick so important. But, all is not lost. Remember when we got Ricky, we also go McKinney. Starters can be found in any round. We'll do fine.

And, yes, I'm a Fiedler fan. I've defended him vehemently. However, no matter how good I think he can be for whatever reasons, he is getting old. Feely may have the goods and he may not. I feel we need a young QB with a defined passion for the game and proven leadership skills. If you look at a kid like Rivers... he has those qualities and a nice resume. He practically carried NC State's Offense on his shoulders while there. He knows the pressure of carrying a team. Some intangibles can't be taught. And as far as mechanics and such..... countless QBs have had poor mechanics yet managed to win SBs and set records.

Rivers, Andrews, whomever..... GO PHINZ!
 
I voted for Rivers.

Wasted pick???? I think not.

I of course do not think the likelihood of him being there is great but I was going off the assumption that all the players on the poll would be assumed to be there, oh silly me.

But, if he is there and well you know ... we do take the BPA, then I think there is no doubt that Rivers will be the one selected. I mean he isnt proven in the NFL yet ... but oh well Big Ben and Eli arent either ... I mean all Rivers did was have a completion percentage in the 70% area while playing in a record 51 college games.

But, I have to admit that he isnt the number one rated QB but you know ... I think Miami got another good QB in the first round before that wasnt the number one rated QB also ... Hmmmm now if I could just remember his name.

Bottom line is this. No one is a guarantee from the Draft and I mean no one .... there are way to many factors that dont even involve skill. There are injuries, there are character issues on how they are going to react to that first contract, etc etc etc.

Rivers to me is a stable pick. He is durable (hence the 51 starts in college), he is also stable with a wife and family, so probably wont be out blowing all of his signing bonus in the nightlife of Miami.

Do I like Feeley? Hell yeah I do, I like him so much Im one of the few here on the board that actually spell his name right but that doesnt mean that Rivers isnt the pick to take if he is available. What happens if something goes wrong and AJ gets injured in the season opener? You want to talk about repeats of last year ... let me tell you this one ... you are looking at a repeat of the last 4 years if that happens.

But I have to agree ... I would like a Monster OLineman also ... but Rivers looks too good to pass up if he is available.
 
So is the consensus that Smiley is a better guard than Vernon Carey? Can somebody break it down for me?
 
I like Rivers too, but we are not going to pick him even if he is on the board which he will not be.

We can argue all night about something that is not going to happen, but it is just a waste of time.

On a reality note, I think Smiley is a safer pick than Andrews, but I'm not sure you could pass on a talent like Andrews.
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


What's with the arrogance? YOU may think we need to pick up OL in this draft, when the fact is it's just your opinion. Your not any more in tune with this team than Me or any other poster on this board (outside of boomer, he's sick with that ****).

You say we "wasted" our vote on Rivers? You say we need OL, yet not QB?.....hmm....OPINIONS. What have we done at OL that we haven't done at QB htis offseason? We brought in young talent, while purging known failures. Yet you think we're set at QB?

Tell me, what is the direction of this team since your so in tune with it? I was under the impression that we were building young budding football team here. Well, we have a young WR, a young RB, a young TE, a young Tackle...hmm...we're missing a young QB that we know can compete consistenly at the pro level........

And what makes you think andrews will be a stud? He could be a flop, we already brought in young "potential" at the OL position, and guess what? IT DIDN'T COST US ANY DRAFT PICKS. If we pick up Randall, we have FIVE former starters on the OL, at the QB situation we have ONE.

I'm glad you have so much faith in yourself that you think your above all others that don't approve of going OL in the first. And I'm glad you known looking across the table that you know Grove or Andrews is the answer to our OL prayers :rolleyes:. Funny though, you've never been at a table across from Grove and Andrews, nor will you ever be in the position to make that kind of decision.

I accept that you want to take OL in the first, and have your reasons. But when it boils down to it, your just another pretender GM like the rest of us. The difference is your telling other people their flat out wrong with absolutely NO basis for your stance. Oh well, if youc an live with it, i can too.
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:D YUP
 
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