The Genius that is Bill Belicheck and How the Dolphins should Learn from the Pats

[dlockz]

Don also made a SB w/ David Woodley. Both are all time great coaches but Don would have been great regardless, BB never would have had the chance to become great if not for Brady rescuing his career.

You cannot say that with certainity because he could have drafted another qb. Its obvious BB is an all time great coach and just because he has a great qb does not conceal that fact. No qb in NFL history has singlehandly kept a team winning year after year

 

[phins_4_ever]

I find it also ironic how people think that Belichek was a great coach in Cleveland. He has one 11-5 season at Cleveland which was in the middle of a 6-10, 7-9,7-9 and 5-11 season.
That's like saying Tony Sparano is a great coach because we went 11-5 in 2008. :d-day:

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Not really. You might want to re-read the Spygate story.

Which part in particular? Mangini ratted out Belichick for taping signals which led to the investigation and revelation that the Patriots had been taping for years and taped walkthroughs including the Rams' prior to the Super Bowl. The league destroyed the tapes and punished the Patriots.

 

[nyjunc]

Well Brady is not playing very well this year and yet NE is still finding ways to win

you don't have to throw for 300 yds to have an impact.

You cannot say that with certainity because he could have drafted another qb. Its obvious BB is an all time great coach and just because he has a great qb does not conceal that fact. No qb in NFL history has singlehandly kept a team winning year after year

I can say it w/ certainty, he was already on the hot seat when Brady took over after a disastrous 5-11 season where they lost to a bad Cincy team week 1 then a decent Jets team at home week 2. They were going nowhere until Brady came in. he developed into a great coach, an opportunity he never gets if he doesn't win the lottery w/ Brady.

 

[SkapePhin]

If BB coached this SAME Dolphins squad they'd be 6-1... BB would have won the last 3 games. So that tells me the larger issue with this team is not talent, but rather coaching.

 

[JTC111]

As a fan since 1975, I can disagree with you. Do I think Belichick is a great coach? Absolutely! Do I think Tom Brady is a great quarterback? Absolutely! Do I think they cheated from 2001-2003? Absolutely!! If that's a poor constructed argument then so be it!! Doesn't mean I can't dislike how classless Belichick is......

I won't argue that Belichick is a hard guy to like, especially from where we're sitting. But despite disliking him, I'd take him as our coach in a heartbeat, and there aren't many guys I'd take over him.

If you are true Dolfan, aren't you sick and tired of how the media is constantly mentioning them?

Who cares? If it isn't New England, it's going to be some other team they're talking about. It's not going to be us, but not because of a conspiracy, rather because we've sucked for a very long time. And if a times comes when we're a consistently dominant team for a long stretch of years, they'll talk about us again just like they did in the 70s and 80s. But right now, we don't deserve such attention.

Just hate the Patriots and their arrogant,elitest,obnoxious fans!!! That's my argument!

I don't know if that's really true, but if it is, they have good reason to be proud of their team. Every one of us on here would love to see our team achieve even half of what New England has accomplished since Belichick took over. The guy knows how to get his team to win games ...something that our team forgot a long long time ago.

 

[chris66]

Which part in particular? Mangini ratted out Belichick for taping signals which led to the investigation and revelation that the Patriots had been taping for years and taped walkthroughs including the Rams' prior to the Super Bowl. The league destroyed the tapes and punished the Patriots.

actually the taped walk through was unfounded. the boston herald which wrote the story had to retract it.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

actually the taped walk through was unfounded. the boston herald which wrote the story had to retract it.

Okay, thanks. Living here in Boston when it all happened I've read and heard so much about it over the years that I have no doubt forgotten, mixed up or otherwise mis-remembered parts of the story.

 

[Alex Trevelyan]

Don also made a SB w/ David Woodley. Both are all time great coaches but Don would have been great regardless, BB never would have had the chance to become great if not for Brady rescuing his career.

Apparently Bill Belichick has been better with his all-time great quarterback then Shula was with his! It seems quite reasonable too you to credit one guy's success with his quarterback, but only when you exempt your own heroes from the same logic. Whenever you see someone criticize Belichick by crediting his success to Brady, you've got to laugh, since this same critique could be applied to any all-time great coach. It's not that the logic is flawed, obviously Belichick has achieved greatness because of Brady, but the same logic can be applied with the same ferocity to every other so-called "genius". Shula wasn't winning with hot garbage, he coached 3 Hall of Fame quarterbacks. The only coach that ever had that luxury. Bill Walsh went from Daryle Lamonica to Ken Anderson to Dan Fouts to Joe Montana to Steve Young. Paul Brown had Otto Graham, never won a championship without him. Lombardi never won anything without Bart Starr. So what if Belichick needed a great quarterback to win a Super Bowl? Did you really expect him to win one with an old Vinny Testaverde?

If you think Shula would of won regardless of his quarterbacks, that sort of statement is pure supposition since Shula benefited from all-time greats throughout the vast majority of his career. Let's not speculate about whether or not Shula would have been great without all-time great quarterbacks, let's look at what Shula did with his great quarterbacks compared to what Belichick has done with his. Marino is in my estimation better than Brady, yet Shula, a supposedly better coach than Belichick, fielded teams that were consistently mediocre or bad with Marino as his quarterback. 3 AFC championship games, 1 Super Bowl appearance! In an era when the AFC was pathetic. Those are just the facts. If Belichick's greatness is a product of his quarterback's greatness, that's a fair statement, of course, what does it say when Shula was unable to come anywhere near Belichick's level with a passer most of us would consider better than Brady? That's damning. You can't rationalize or intellectualize the incongruity in the facts with your perceptions, sorry.

 

[Shouright]

You can't rationalize or intellectualize the incongruity in the facts with your perceptions, sorry.

Wait, we can't do that here? :unsure:

 

[nyjunc]

Apparently Bill Belichick has been better with his all-time great quarterback then Shula was with his! It seems quite reasonable too you to credit one guy's success with his quarterback, but only when you exempt your own heroes from the same logic. Whenever you see someone criticize Belichick by crediting his success to Brady, you've got to laugh, since this same critique could be applied to any all-time great coach. It's not that the logic is flawed, obviously Belichick has achieved greatness because of Brady, but the same logic can be applied with the same ferocity to every other so-called "genius". Shula wasn't winning with hot garbage, he coached 3 Hall of Fame quarterbacks. The only coach that ever had that luxury. Bill Walsh went from Daryle Lamonica to Ken Anderson to Dan Fouts to Joe Montana to Steve Young. Paul Brown had Otto Graham, never won a championship without him. Lombardi never won anything without Bart Starr. So what if Belichick needed a great quarterback to win a Super Bowl? Did you really expect him to win one with an old Vinny Testaverde?

If you think Shula would of won regardless of his quarterbacks, that sort of statement is pure supposition since Shula benefited from all-time greats throughout the vast majority of his career. Let's not speculate about whether or not Shula would have been great without all-time great quarterbacks, let's look at what Shula did with his great quarterbacks compared to what Belichick has done with his. Marino is in my estimation better than Brady, yet Shula, a supposedly better coach than Belichick, fielded teams that were consistently mediocre or bad with Marino as his quarterback. 3 AFC championship games, 1 Super Bowl appearance! In an era when the AFC was pathetic. Those are just the facts. If Belichick's greatness is a product of his quarterback's greatness, that's a fair statement, of course, what does it say when Shula was unable to come anywhere near Belichick's level with a passer most of us would consider better than Brady? That's damning. You can't rationalize or intellectualize the incongruity in the facts with your perceptions, sorry.

was shula a complete failure w/o his HOF QBs? BB was. All great coaches win w/ talent but how many were failures before they had a HOF QB?

Shula? made a SB w/ Woodley
Parcells? won a SB w/ Hostetler
Joe Gibbs? won 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs, none in the Hall
You want to say Walsh? but he wasn't a failure and he rescued a failed QB and helped turn him into a HOFer
Landry- made SBs w multiple QBs, made 3 title games w/ Danny White


He has developed into a great HC but that opportunity never would have been available if Brady didn't rescue his career. he would have been fired soon and would never have gotten another chance to be a HC.

 

[PASQUALE]

Rewind back to the Patriots first Superbowl win, the one in which they had no business being in since the Raiders got screwed by the **** RULE! But I digress, all you have to do is watch when Ty Law jumped that out route of Isaac Bruce, with no safety help proved to me along time ago the Pats taped the Rams walk throughs! Pats fans will always tell you everybody was taping!!!! BULL****!! They weren't taping the other teams walk throughs! This was all swept under the rug by Goodell and Kraft! Goodell even destroyed the tapes????? Why wasn't Belichick kicked out for a year like Sean Payton was? Because Kraft is the one that got GOODELL the Commish job!!! There is no doubt in my mind the Pats cheated those three superbowls and steeler players and Marshall Faulk even said their linebackers were running my routes for me! So take you Belichick fluffing comments and take them to the Patriot boards or ESPN,NFL NETWORK and PFT that fluff the Pats on a daily basis!!!! **** THE PATRIOTS and their cheating coach!!!!

The ******* Gaytriots also pay the ******* refs to help win games as well! This piece of **** ********** coach and *** boy Brady are in Goodells pocket and they will do anything possible to make them win. How in the **** does this league allow such BS is beyond me!!!

Until these MF's are together for X amount of years left, they will cheat for them and try to make them win because ******* Kraft Cheese has Goodell in his back pocket. It's a proven fact that these Gaytriots can be **** and still something turns the game in their favor by a BS call or someone cheating upstairs and tells them it's time to change the outcome.

It has happened in 3 games this year. The Saints, The Jets in the 1st game in NE, and now the Dolphins. **** this league seriously.

One thing is for sure though RT has no awareness in the pocket. If you see it collaspe escape it or throw it away. I was watching the GB/MIN game last night and the same GD thing was happening the pocket collaspe around Rodgers and he would step up or escape or move out left or right. RT17 stands in and gets blown up. The OL can do as much as it can for him do the job he needs to do. But, a Frannie QB would know if I have a **** line I need to be quicker or escape it. RT is a Okay QB but, he is still raw. I am going to give him 1 more year. Regardless of what outcome of this season will be. WIN or LOSE.

GO DOLPHINS!!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

was shula a complete failure w/o his HOF QBs? BB was. All great coaches win w/ talent but how many were failures before they had a HOF QB?

Shula? made a SB w/ Woodley
Parcells? won a SB w/ Hostetler
Joe Gibbs? won 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs, none in the Hall
You want to say Walsh? but he wasn't a failure and he rescued a failed QB and helped turn him into a HOFer
Landry- made SBs w multiple QBs, made 3 title games w/ Danny White


He has developed into a great HC but that opportunity never would have been available if Brady didn't rescue his career. he would have been fired soon and would never have gotten another chance to be a HC.

Take a look at the number of Hall of Fame players on some of those rosters versus the number of players on the Patriots teams that won will likely make the HOF. I'm not claiming it negates your argument, but it needs to be factored in since there is more to winning a Super Bowl than just having a QB. If you were to remove Lawrence Taylor from the Giants do they still win two Super Bowls? What if the Redskins didn't have Riggins and that offensive line? Or Darrell Green and Art Monk?

 

[nyjunc]

Take a look at the number of Hall of Fame players on some of those rosters versus the number of players on the Patriots teams that won will likely make the HOF. I'm not claiming it negates your argument, but it needs to be factored in since there is more to winning a Super Bowl than just having a QB.

to win you need great players w/o a doubt but he had the same team minus the QB and couldn't win a game. he was not a good HC in Cle and early in the NE years.

 

[endorPHINS72]

How come Belicheat was NOT a genius in Cleveland?....did he just mature and get smart in New England? Nope. He's a genius because of Tom Brady....end of story.

That's bunk. I don't like Belichick as a person, but he's a DAMNED good coach. He took a Matt Cassel led team to an 11-5 record in 2008 and is one of the best defensive strategists in the game.

As for his Cleveland stint, he learned from his failures, and he did lead his team to an 11-5 record and a playoff win over New England in 1994, which is more than any coach here has done since 2000.