The Official WWE/TNA Pro Wrestling Thread

[SpaceMountain16]

towards the end of WCW Benoit was a member of a watered down version of the horsemen,IMO. It had potential but was buried under the rise of NWO and other politics backstage. They brought back the horsemen gimmick whenever they needed a ratings booster, or ran low on ideas.

are you calling Mambo McMichael watered down!

EDIT: Mambo because when he wrestled he always reminded me of a bad dancer (In case you were wondering why i called him Mambo instead)

 

[Enforcerfin33]

are you calling Mambo McMichael watered down!

EDIT: Mambo because when he wrestled he always reminded me of a bad dancer (In case you were wondering why i called him Mambo instead)

I actually thought you were making a Penn from Penn and Teller metaphor. Penn always reminds me of Mongo..not in a good way.

 

[Samphin]

A couple of things. I REALLY enjoyed the first hour of Raw tonight. I thought just about everything clicked the way it should have. The opening segment between Jericho and Show was really well done. It is too bad that it led to nothing more than a throwaway match in the second hour that served no purpose other than to get Show's punch over. Honestly, it made Jericho look bad too as he went and got himself DQ'ed like a heel would and made the IC champ look awfully bad.

But the buildup was nicely done. I really think they should have had that be the start of a slow burn feud for those two (little known fact, Jericho fought Big Show for his 1,000th career match some years ago).

I thought the Umaga build was nicely done too. I really like him which is odd because I typically don't like big fat wrestlers. But the guy can move and holds my interest as a fan and worker. The ONLY thing I would have changed would to have had Big Show face London and Kendrick. They are both about the size of Mayweather and Show beating on two of them would have driven the point home better about how Mayweather has no shot. Plus, you could still have Spanky wlak out on London if need be.

I disliked the Flair-McMahon match. As a general rule, two 60 year olds falling all over each other and being visibly blown up a minute in is not fun. If you are gonna do this match, they should have had the payoff be at Wrestlemania where a gory bladejob like the one Flair did would be entrenched as a WRESTLEMANIA moment forever. Plus, the highspot off the top rope (it finally worked!) would have been a nice one as well. Again, as it stands, its a throwaway match on a decent Raw card.

The main event was interesting. I thought it was different in a good way and plays to HHH's character. The scrubs they put out their as "raw's roster" was pretty bad though. No Michaels, No Show, No Jericho (although you could explain that one I suppose) No Jeff Hardy...wait, nevermind. It would have been kind of neat to see Orton and Cena weave their way through this first wave, think they have won, only to have HHH come out and explain that that was only HALF of the Raw roster and then see the big boys come down to take care of it.

But overall, nicely done show, good pacing and advanced some storylines. Their mission is to build on that next week and beyond I suppose.

 

[Samphin]

I also really liked the Carlito-Punk match. I would like to see more from those seven on the upcoming cards. Maybe have Benjamin vs. Morrison on ECW and Kennedy vs. MVP on Smackdown or whoever. All those guys can bring it in the ring and it would be nice to see them face each other in various matches leading up to WM.

Now, as for the Horsemen issue. I was digging into the pits in my brain to work up a promo for Flair and kickstart a new Horsemen angle. I alluded to it a week or so ago, but have since fleshed it out.

Flair loses to Michaels at WM, soaks up the adulation and walks off the stage as a wrestler for the last time. The very next night on Raw, Michaels is feeling good about himself and decides to challenge Randy Orton (assumes he retains) that night for the title. Orton declines but Regal steps in and forces him to.

So the main event happens, Michaels vs. Orton. A good 20 minute match or so. Orton gets nailed by the elbow drop and Michaels starts tuning up the band. Just when it looks like he is ready to kick Orton's head off and take the title, Lance Cade comes out of nowhere and ends up eating the superkick instead. Michaels, mildly perplexed turns, avoids and RKO and proceeds to kick Orton into next week. He goes for the pin, 1-2...the ref is pulled out by Flair!

As Michaels is now throughly confused, he is blindsided from behind by a reunited Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas who proceed to beat the holy hell out of Michaels along with Lance Cade and Randy Orton.

Nobody seems to know what is going on, Flair decks the ref and grabs the mic (the match is thrown out) and the championship belt and hands it back to Orton.

Flair: "Shawn Michaels! You're not the first, and you won't be the last! I didn't want to have to do it, but you left me no choice! While you, and everyone else counted me out, I still had an ace up my sleeve!

In fact, I guess you can say I had FOUR aces up my sleeve! (He flashes the now legendary horsemen symbol as people are starting to catch on) What you see here is the latest, and greatest version of a wrestling staple! WHOOOOOOO! The Four Horsemen ride again!"

Michaels starts to crawl at Flairs feet, bloodied, woozy and not knowing where he is. Flair lets him get to his knees before punching him down and the five of them proceed to kickpush him out of the ring where medical personell are waiting.

"And Michaels! When you get out of the hospital. IF you get out of the hospital, you may want to think long and hard before coming back. You might want to pick up the phone and call Sting. Call Luger, call Windham, Dusty, or hell call Hogan for all I care! Because at the end of the day, The Horsemen as seen them all, and beat them all. The one constant in this business is us!" (All are now wearing horsemen t-shirts and raising the four fingers in the air)

"So let this be a lesson for all. Everyone in the back, consider yourself officially on notice. The Four Horsemen are back, and we are coming for you! Whooooooooooo!"

Then cue the horsemen theme music (the old Arn Anderson tune) and end the show as is.

So you have Orton in the Flair mode, Cade as the secondary single/muscle and a tag team in Shelton/Haas that can scoop up tag team gold fairly easily. All of this with Flair still in charge of them and a built in feud with Michaels and to a lesser extent, people like Murdoch and others. You can also have the group terrorize any and all brands pledging no alliance to anything other than themselves.

What do you guys think?

 

[Enforcerfin33]

Not bad Sam, I'm not really keen on having Worlds Greatest in there, but it works. Then of course to counter the IV you would prob. see a DX reunion, to where 2 just wouldn't be enough. Enter CM Punk, and the long awaited return of "OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW.....YO #*$ BETTA CALL SOMEBODYYYYYY!"The New Age Outlaws, who in TNA have been pushed to the back burner.

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

A couple of things. I REALLY enjoyed the first hour of Raw tonight. I thought just about everything clicked the way it should have. The opening segment between Jericho and Show was really well done. It is too bad that it led to nothing more than a throwaway match in the second hour that served no purpose other than to get Show's punch over. Honestly, it made Jericho look bad too as he went and got himself DQ'ed like a heel would and made the IC champ look awfully bad.

But the buildup was nicely done. I really think they should have had that be the start of a slow burn feud for those two (little known fact, Jericho fought Big Show for his 1,000th career match some years ago).

I thought the Umaga build was nicely done too. I really like him which is odd because I typically don't like big fat wrestlers. But the guy can move and holds my interest as a fan and worker. The ONLY thing I would have changed would to have had Big Show face London and Kendrick. They are both about the size of Mayweather and Show beating on two of them would have driven the point home better about how Mayweather has no shot. Plus, you could still have Spanky wlak out on London if need be.

I disliked the Flair-McMahon match. As a general rule, two 60 year olds falling all over each other and being visibly blown up a minute in is not fun. If you are gonna do this match, they should have had the payoff be at Wrestlemania where a gory bladejob like the one Flair did would be entrenched as a WRESTLEMANIA moment forever. Plus, the highspot off the top rope (it finally worked!) would have been a nice one as well. Again, as it stands, its a throwaway match on a decent Raw card.

The main event was interesting. I thought it was different in a good way and plays to HHH's character. The scrubs they put out their as "raw's roster" was pretty bad though. No Michaels, No Show, No Jericho (although you could explain that one I suppose) No Jeff Hardy...wait, nevermind. It would have been kind of neat to see Orton and Cena weave their way through this first wave, think they have won, only to have HHH come out and explain that that was only HALF of the Raw roster and then see the big boys come down to take care of it.

But overall, nicely done show, good pacing and advanced some storylines. Their mission is to build on that next week and beyond I suppose.

I thought it was kinda cool how the crowd was feeding off of the team work being done by Orton and Cena. Especially when Orton was RKO'ing people left and right, the crowd seemed to really be into him at that point.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I thought the Flair/McMahon match was brutual, Flair is really embarassing to watch nowadays. I also think it killed a lot of heat for Flair since he got his butt kicked by McMahon and pretty much only won because HBK pulled out the ref during the match. HBK is going to need to work a miracle to get even a 3 star match out of Flair at WM.

I think it's a bad idea having Flair wrestle 2 weeks before WM and having him be exposed like that.

 

[Enforcerfin33]

What hurt Flair was wrestling another man who is well past his prime.

 

[Den54]

The good ole days.
There will never be another Nature Boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8UCbiH0Ykk

 

[CharlestonPhan]

I think even the WWE would admit that thet screwed the pooch with Mayweather. I think they thought that fans would like Mayweather as he is a name from a "legit" sport. The problem is, and always has been, that wrestling fans are VERY clique-ish and tend to not like outsiders for more than a one time appearance.

The report I saw was that the intent was to originally have Mayweather/partner vs. Misterio/De La Hoya for Wrestlemania. Admittedly, I think that could have been an intruiging matchup and De La Hoya would have brought more of a mainstream push to it. Plus, it would have put Mayweather into a natural heel position instead of forced to be an awkward babyface.

Once De La Hoya balked at that, the plan was Misterio/Mayweather vs. Big Show. That could have worked as well as Misterio brings credibility and two shorties makes it somewhat more believable than one shorty facing Big Show. As it stands now, I don't see how this can possibly work. If Big Show wins, its expected and not that exciting. If Mayweather wins, it isn't believable by itself and the fans will be upset, and not in a good way.

The WWE has really backed themselves into a corner with this match. I don't even have a good idea of how to salvage it short of pairing Mayweather up with someone from the roster to combat Show. The problem there is that most of the big stars are already busy in their own programs for WM. Plus, they just ran an angle where EVERY wrestler was against the Mayweather clan so how do you explain someone all of a sudden being his buddy?

i agree, so my guess is that Big Show loses at Mania due to outside interference from someone, to set up his next feud moving forward...

that or a no contest/Double DQ. and a double DQ would make no sense whatsoever. the fans would ***t all over it at this point.

 

[CharlestonPhan]

towards the end of WCW Benoit was a member of a watered down version of the horsemen,IMO. It had potential but was buried under the rise of NWO and other politics backstage. They brought back the horsemen gimmick whenever they needed a ratings booster, or ran low on ideas.

i think Bischoff brought the Horsemen back just to bury it at the hands of "his" NWO... he always seemed to ignore the pop that the Horsemen got, and that is exactly what he did to Flair for about 5 years individually.

 

[Enforcerfin33]

i think Bischoff brought the Horsemen back just to bury it at the hands of "his" NWO... he always seemed to ignore the pop that the Horsemen got, and that is exactly what he did to Flair for about 5 years individually.

Oh yeh...def. Have you watched the newer Horsemen DVD? It pretty much goes over that whole scenario.

 

[CharlestonPhan]

Whatever happen to Goldberg?

i know Enforcer already answered your question... but it made me wonder why no one has stolen Goldberg's finisher (the jackhammer, i think he called it).

that move always looked convincing to me, even when Dean Malenko used to do it before teaching it to Goldberg.

 

[CharlestonPhan]

Oh yeh...def. Have you watched the newer Horsemen DVD? It pretty much goes over that whole scenario.

oh yeah, that DVD set is great, and the best part is, there is so much history there that they didn't touch on, there has to be a second Horsemen DVD coming down the pipe soon!

 

[Enforcerfin33]

i know Enforcer already answered your question... but it made me wonder why no one has stolen Goldberg's finisher (the jackhammer, i think he called it).

that move always looked convincing to me, even when Dean Malenko used to do it before teaching it to Goldberg.

Billy Gunn used it for awhile. IMO, its one of those moves that one person took to a level (Goldberg) to where it makes other wrestlers that do it look bad. It was a perfect high impact finisher for him. Just like the Pedigree, when you see it, no matter who does it, you think, HHH. Figure 4, Flair...so on.