The Question of Ryan Tannehill - Bill Barnwell

[hoops]

by the way i see it now on the jets sack...barnwells screwed that one up...tannehill wants matthews on the shallow cross against the lb which is a major mismatch but the lb in the 5 yard zone chucks mathews off his line and tannehill comes off it...

if anything i'd like to see mathews run that with a little more depth so that the lb can't chuck him when he crosses him without illegal contact...if he can get across there clean we got a trail lb just like the one we had in week 17 with mathews all kinds of real estate up the sideline etc to take...except mathews dropped that one in week 17

 

[fishfanmiami]

Interesting that he would only post gifs of Tannehill's sacks to prove his point. He did do a couple things right last year especially before the last two ****ty games. I tend to agree with Vaark in that last year was the worst OL performance I've witnessed in all my years as a Dolphin's fan and that must be taken into consideration when evaluating our QB.

This I do agree with.

The best-case scenario for Tannehill is that Lazor:

1. Ratchets up the tempo, thereby simplifying the looks Tannehill faces just as it did for Foles.

2. Adds lots of packaged plays and other quick reads designed both to get the ball in space to playmakers like Mike Wallace and Lamar Miller and to relieve pressure on Miami’s hodgepodge offensive line.4

3. Gets Tannehill on the perimeter, where he can run or throw and use his athleticism to break down defenses, much like Kelly used Marcus Mariota at Oregon.

4. Revamps Miami’s run-blocking schemes and sprinkles in just enough read-options to keep the defense honest — which Sherman tried but never cohesively fit into Miami’s offense.5

 

[PhinFan1968]

I am normally not an "I told you so" type of guy but this was related to the topic. My point all offseason was you guys were using the OL as an excuse and that the Ol was pretty good the 2nd half of the year. I also stated many times he wasn't bad and that didn't mean he wouldn't be good. I may not always be right but I am always fair.

Only you would call it pretty good, putting it somewhere above average. Slightly better than total crap is still crap.

 

[nyjunc]

Except that no where in the article did it say that Miami's OL was "pretty good" in the second half of the season. It does say this though:

but it did say this:

but in watching the Dolphins offense, the line was far more at fault for sacks during the first half of the campaign than during the second half. As Ron Jaworski noted while ranking Tannehill as the league’s 23rd-best quarterback heading into 2014, Tannehill seems to get stuck at times on his reads and holds on to the ball longer than he should in the hopes of making plays. That became more and more obvious as the season went along, although it’s clearly an issue for Tannehill on a regular basis.

 

[nick1]

Time Until Sack

Rank Name Team Drop backs To Sack
1 Russell Wilson SEA 274 4.05
2 Alex D. Smith SF 244 4.03
3 Michael Vick PHI 366 4.02
4 Jay Cutler CHI 278 4.01
5 Josh Freeman TB 274 3.87
6 John Skelton ARZ 187 3.85
7 Matt Cassel KC 260 3.81
8 Joe Flacco BLT 299 3.68
9 Aaron Rodgers GB 373 3.62
10 Matt Schaub HST 260 3.61
11 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 281 3.61
12 Matthew Stafford DET 369 3.57
13 Andrew Luck IND 371 3.39
14 Mark Sanchez NYJ 291 3.34
15 Cam Newton CAR 266 3.27
16 Tom Brady NE 335 3.26
17 Christian Ponder MIN 330 3.22
18 Tony Romo DAL 335 3.11
19 Eli Manning NYG 331 3.04
20 Andy Dalton CIN 315 3.02
21 Matt Hasselbeck TEN 240 2.94
22 Robert Griffin III WAS 309 2.85
23 Drew Brees NO 357 2.85
24 Matt Ryan ATL 331 2.84
25 Brandon Weeden CLV 356 2.84
26 Carson Palmer OAK 347 2.67
27 Sam Bradford SL 278 2.66
28 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316 2.56
29 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271 2.51
30 Peyton Manning DEN 304 2.5
31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261 2.48
32 Philip Rivers SD 285 2.43
33 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217 2.28

this is from november, so yes maybe it got better in December but by a large margin? I doubt that. A QB needs more then 2.48 seconds in the pocket. 2nd worst among starting QBs

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

congrats barnwell you found 2 clips of plays where the qb did in fact cause sacks the first a misread on the coverage on a pick play that the coverage should have dictated him going away from from the get go the second sack though the check down in the flat is covered he pumped twice in the pocket i dont see any open options there if he does throw to the check down yeah it's one on one but the defender is closing fast would be an easy stoppage...if anything you throw the ball in the 3rd row but that's not his mentality and thru 2 years that has become obvious he thinks every play is alive to be made...he needs to figure it out...the 3rd sack he had tunnel vision and never came off what was likely a presnap misread

I also don't get what Barnwell is talking about on the Pats clip. The ENTIRE OFFENSIVE LINE WAS KNOCKED SIX YARDS BACKWARDS. BY FOUR PASS RUSHERS. When the hell does that happen?

Tannehill is throwing to 5 guys against 7 defenders.

Same thing in the Jets clip. 4 defenders drive 5 blockers 5 yards into the back field.

No pocket was formed on either play. Simply pitiful OL play and those are the best examples of Tannehill "locking up".

 

[nick1]

wow it also debunks the Wilson had a poor oline theory lol

 

[nyjunc]

by the way i see it now on the jets sack...barnwells screwed that one up...tannehill wants matthews on the shallow cross against the lb which is a major mismatch but the lb in the 5 yard zone chucks mathews off his line and tannehill comes off it...

if anything i'd like to see mathews run that with a little more depth so that the lb can't chuck him when he crosses him without illegal contact...if he can get across there clean we got a trail lb just like the one we had in week 17 with mathews all kinds of real estate up the sideline etc to take...except mathews dropped that one in week 17

That was definitely a big drop, quite possible a game changing drop.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

but it did say this:

And the words "pretty good" appear where???????

 

[hoops]

I also don't get what Barnwell is talking about on the Pats clip. The ENTIRE OFFENSIVE LINE WAS KNOCKED SIX YARDS BACKWARDS. BY FOUR PASS RUSHERS. When the hell does that happen?

Tannehill is throwing to 5 guys against 7 defenders.

Same thing in the Jets clip. 4 defenders drive 5 blockers 5 yards into the back field.

No pocket was formed on either play. Simply pitiful OL play and those are the best examples of Tannehill "locking up".

well of course the oline play was awful we got our asses kicked man to man pretty much up front every snap but he's talking about poor reads and decisions etc...so thats what i'm keying on...he has a few examples for sure here but he's overstating things of course off of them

do i think tanny maybe started rushing his progressions etc and getting a little gun shy due to all the contact last year??? hell yes i do...the kid got destroyed...and that's something we got to hope doesnt become a trait...it's possible to ruin a guy...

you are right though i doubt barnwell accounted for shell coverages etc and rushing 4 dropping 7 and still getting the qb etc

 

[SkapePhin]

Time Until Sack

Rank Name Team Drop backs To Sack
1 Russell Wilson SEA 274 4.05
2 Alex D. Smith SF 244 4.03
3 Michael Vick PHI 366 4.02
4 Jay Cutler CHI 278 4.01
5 Josh Freeman TB 274 3.87
6 John Skelton ARZ 187 3.85
7 Matt Cassel KC 260 3.81
8 Joe Flacco BLT 299 3.68
9 Aaron Rodgers GB 373 3.62
10 Matt Schaub HST 260 3.61
11 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 281 3.61
12 Matthew Stafford DET 369 3.57
13 Andrew Luck IND 371 3.39
14 Mark Sanchez NYJ 291 3.34
15 Cam Newton CAR 266 3.27
16 Tom Brady NE 335 3.26
17 Christian Ponder MIN 330 3.22
18 Tony Romo DAL 335 3.11
19 Eli Manning NYG 331 3.04
20 Andy Dalton CIN 315 3.02
21 Matt Hasselbeck TEN 240 2.94
22 Robert Griffin III WAS 309 2.85
23 Drew Brees NO 357 2.85
24 Matt Ryan ATL 331 2.84
25 Brandon Weeden CLV 356 2.84
26 Carson Palmer OAK 347 2.67
27 Sam Bradford SL 278 2.66
28 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 316 2.56
29 Blaine Gabbert JAX 271 2.51
30 Peyton Manning DEN 304 2.5
31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 261 2.48
32 Philip Rivers SD 285 2.43
33 Kevin Kolb ARZ 217 2.28

this is from november, so yes maybe it got better in December but by a large margin? I doubt that. A QB needs more then 2.48 seconds in the pocket. 2nd worst among starting QBs

If anything, it got worse in December. The Bills game was atrocious, straight up jail break every snap.

 

[hoops]

i do agree though that there needs to be development in how quickly the ball comes out of hands...not just proper reads but ball out quickly etc i chalk it up right now to lack of experience and will come with time i mean the kids not played qb that long barnwell even says so and i fully expect to see growths there in the future...it will have to get faster for him to get to the elite level

 

[finfan54]

josh freeman was never a solution....maybe in his biased brain he was.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

you are right though i doubt barnwell accounted for shell coverages etc and rushing 4 dropping 7 and still getting the qb etc

Yeah,. that's something that a bunch of people here brought up during the season. Teams were consistently able to get significant pressure rushing only 4. Kind of hard to be successful throwing into that, isn't it?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

i do agree though that there needs to be development in how quickly the ball comes out of hands...not just proper reads but ball out quickly etc i chalk it up right now to lack of experience and will come with time i mean the kids not played qb that long barnwell even says so and i fully expect to see growths there in the future...it will have to get faster for him to get to the elite level

He was already in the top part of the league in quickest to throw. IMO, it comes down to this:

1. When his first read is there, he gets rid of the ball quickly most of the time.
2. When forced to move to second or third reads, he sometimes waits too long to give up on the first read. I don't know if this is when the first read is a slower developing pattern and he doesn't anticipate that the route is not going to work or if he hesitates throwing into certain kinds of coverage or what. I also don't know if Tannehill does it any more often than other QBs or if he just pays for it more often due to the crap OL.

Tannehill is far from a perfect QB, but I have rarely felt like he was confused in a game. He doesn't seem to make the same mistakes over and over. I am confident that he will continue to improve and 100% certain that his performance would have been 10 QBR points higher last season with a decent OL.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------

Yeah,. that's something that a bunch of people here brought up during the season. Teams were consistently able to get significant pressure rushing only 4. Kind of hard to be successful throwing into that, isn't it?

Hmmm.... quick pressure from only 4 rushers. Defenders sitting on short routes. What could possibly go wrong?