The Question of Ryan Tannehill - Bill Barnwell

[MD]

MODS: I don't appreciate the name of the former Jets QB having a macro attached to it. Pretty childish if you ask me.

 

[nyjunc]

Braylon Edwards worked well with Sanchito but his greatest contribution was opening the running game. Holmes made a huge catch in the SB yet the Jets only had to give up a 5th to get him. Why? He's not very good and his work ethic was horrible. Keller blew his knee up and I was thrilled the Dolphins signed him. Just didn't work out.m

Now you didn't need me to explain that because you know that. But you have no response to something that can't be argued. Only 1 OL the Dolphins had last year will start in the NFL this season. The OL improved (the acquisition of McKinnie and most notably was Klabo greatly improving after being benched 1 game) in the second half but its subjective to say how much. Pretty good is a stretch IMO. Trying to solidify your argument that there were no mass discussions of the OL after the NE game is ridiculous. Of course everyone was talking playoffs. The playoff talk overshadowed the fact that the OL wasn't that good in that game? If you watched the game you'd agree. But talk reverted back to the OL after the Bills game because it reared its ugly head again.

I'll put the Jets game squarely on Tannehill and his inability to come through when we needed him is troubling. What I won't do is get into a silly argument that will fill countless pages of garbage rehashing Mark buttfumble or any other Jets crap that has nothing to do with the state of the Dolphins OL.

I didn't bring up Mark but it is the first line of defense for some posters here whenever I discuss the failures of Ryan last year. The funny thing is I never bashed Ryan, just discussed him realistically but if I don't fawn over him and tell you he's the next great QB in this league half the board bashes me.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Question for the mods:

Why is it that you allow posters to blatantly verbally abuse junc?

I'm well aware of where the lines are drawn, and this thread has multiple personal attacks against junc. I received an infraction recently for implying that a poster here probably isn't too bright. IMO junc has remained very civil throughout the abuse, attempting to keep the conversation focused rather than retaliating. If you allow him to post here, shouldn't he receive the same protection as any other poster?

junc doesn't debate topics. He posts contrarian opinions. He ignores all facts and dissenting opinions no matter how well supported in favor of his own unsupported opinions. His first post in this thread implied the article supported one of his contrarian opinions, when, it did no such thing. In fact, the author explicitly stated an opinion that is the opposite of his opinion. He stated in a post that his intent was to post an "I told you so" response. When challenge to point out where his quote called the OL "pretty good", he responded with this:

I think it can be inferred that it was better than pretty good. anyone watching w/o bias could see it.

In other words, never mind the article (which was the supposed reason for joining the discussion), I want to continue to push my contrarian opinion that the OL was good enough but the QB wasn't. I'm here to tell you all that you are incapable of unbiased analysis of the Miami Dolphins.

Now multiply that same MO by several hundred times and other posters are tired of it.

So, spare me the indignation.

 

[MD]

I didn't bring up Mark

I beg to differ.

so Braylon Edwards can't get a job, Holmes can't get a job, no one wants keller anymore. does that mean mark made those guys in 2010?

And you wonder why some guys give you a hard time.

 

[roy_miami]

The o-line was very good...







...relative to Mark Stinkchez

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

good over the course of 8 games is different than good over the long term. One has nothing to do w/ the other.

This makes no sense at all.

I ask again, why weren't you guys complaining about the OL after the NE game? where was the talk about the OL? all the talk was about the soon to be clinched playoff spot and how Ryan had arrived and was a top young QB.

Prove that nobody was complaining. I wasn't happy with the OL. I couldn't stand to watch McKinnie attempt to play LT. Brenner was a joke and Jerry showed no improvement on the season. Clabo was the only one to show some improvement but that was improving on the worst half season that a RT ever had, so big deal.

 

[nyjunc]

junc doesn't debate topics. He posts contrarian opinions. He ignores all facts and dissenting opinions no matter how well supported in favor of his own unsupported opinions. His first post in this thread implied the article supported one of his contrarian opinions, when, it did no such thing. In fact, the author explicitly stated an opinion that is the opposite of his opinion. He stated in a post that his intent was to post an "I told you so" response. When challenge to point out where his quote called the OL "pretty good", he responded with this:



In other words, never mind the article (which was the supposed reason for joining the discussion), I want to continue to push my contrarian opinion that the OL was good enough but the QB wasn't. I'm here to tell you all that you are incapable of unbiased analysis of the Miami Dolphins.

Now multiply that same MO by several hundred times and other posters are tired of it.

So, spare me the indignation.

If I posted "I told you so posts" I would be doing it all day every day. I was simply taking a paragraph out of that story, one where the author is clearly blaming Ryan for the 2nd half struggles and not the OL and you can't deal w/ that b/c it goes against your opinion. I don't care about "experts" anyway, if he said Ryan sucks or Ryan was great it wouldn't change my opinion b/c I form my own opinions. I don't need stat sites or anything else to tell me how to think. You are free to disagree w/ me, so is everyone else.

all the talk was about the impending playoff clincher. You guys thought you had it locked up b/c of Ryan but then when he sucks the last 2 weeks and you lose he gets no blame.

 

[Phinfan407]

That was a good read. He pointed out some things that I hadn't thought about. Thanks for the post!

 

[Vaark]

good over the course of 8 games is different than good over the long term. One has nothing to do w/ the other. Miami was a toxic situation, changes needed to be made for more than just football reasons. If Pouncey wasn't AP caliber he would have been gone too, if he was just a good C he would have been gone.

I ask again, why weren't you guys complaining about the OL after the NE game? where was the talk about the OL? all the talk was about the soon to be clinched playoff spot and how Ryan had arrived and was a top young QB.

You're so ready to put this on Tannehill although even the author declares last year's OL combinations to be among the worst in the league (confirming just about every independent analytic published). Yet, can't you see the disingenuity declaring that buttfumble had a good season in '11 at 8-8 when PFf ranked him 37th out of 38 that year and on his way to the playoffs facing 3 teams with losing records at that time, he lost all 3 putting up 7 Ints to 5 TDs, a 56% completion record and a 60QBR. Incidentally he had 4 opportunities to beat winning teams that season and went 0-4. You still contend that '12 was his only bad year; I don't recall you ever taking a deep breath to admit that his tailspin cost the jets the playoffs.

So while you want to deflect from an OL that failed every objective eye test all season long to fault Tannehill who beat 4 out of 7 winning teams last season with barely a running game, no running or TE blocking, a dysfunctional and 29th ranked OL on average, yet at the same time still claim that the same buttfumble, with 1 unassisted winning season out of 4 and 3 losing opportunities to make the playoffs in '11 despite a good OL and potent running game and Keller, Burris, Kerley and Holmes among other weapons, he with a career record over 4 seasons of 5 wins out of 19 games against winning teams (vs RT17's 6-14 in 2 seasons) doesn't that either make you hypocritical or blindly homeristic?

 

[nick1]

I'm growing tired of these tannehill debates which seemingly are an endless argument between junc and a handful of us. Football please come soon

 

[nyjunc]

at no point did I not say the Ol wasn't a factor last year. You guys make out like I am saying you had the hogs up front and everything that went wrong was all on Ryan. There were many reasons you failed to make the playoffs, I think Ryan was at the top of the list and the Ol wasn't far behind. You guys think otherwise, we are allowed to disagree.

---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

I'm growing tired of these tannehill debates which seemingly are an endless argument between junc and a handful of us. Football please come soon

we almost made it to the season, soon enough we'll hopefully have new arguments. If Ryan is good I'll tip my cap just like I did after the NE game last year.

 

[finfanaz]

If I posted "I told you so posts" I would be doing it all day every day. I was simply taking a paragraph out of that story, one where the author is clearly blaming Ryan for the 2nd half struggles and not the OL and you can't deal w/ that b/c it goes against your opinion. I don't care about "experts" anyway, if he said Ryan sucks or Ryan was great it wouldn't change my opinion b/c I form my own opinions. I don't need stat sites or anything else to tell me how to think. You are free to disagree w/ me, so is everyone else.

all the talk was about the impending playoff clincher. You guys thought you had it locked up b/c of Ryan but then when he sucks the last 2 weeks and you lose he gets no blame.

You're full of yourself and you think you're right more often than you actually are. In some form or fashion you need a reality check.

And Tenne does get some blame for the last two weeks. Not most or all of the blame like you say. Our OLine was exploited by two good/very good DLines because our OLine was complete ****. Also due to the fact that we had an OC that didn't play to the strengths of our QB (top 5 QBR in the league on passes outside of the pocket / Our genius OC decides to run plays outside of the pocket lower than the league average). Bill Barnwell lamented this in his article and just reaffirmed his position on Tanne going forward on the Dan Lebatard show. You seem to have missed that though.

You lose any credibility that you may have (lets face it, you have none...) using the word "good" in relation to the Dolphins 2013 OLine.

 

[PhinFan1968]

at no point did I not say the Ol wasn't a factor last year. You guys make out like I am saying you had the hogs up front and everything that went wrong was all on Ryan. There were many reasons you failed to make the playoffs, I think Ryan was at the top of the list and the Ol wasn't far behind. You guys think otherwise, we are allowed to disagree.

Nope, not even close, but that wouldn't support your hyperbolic agenda against our team, just using your own words "pretty good" and "average." Like I said before, that's all I need to know. That's just smoothing over a glaring problem that EVERY body knows had a direct, massive impact on the team, to bolster your weak argument against Tannehill, because deep down you know he's got oodles more upside/quality than Buttfumble ever had/will have...not to even mention Top 5 QB Geno, and that just eats you up.

I'm not going to go down this never-ending argument road with you again...you've proven yourself.

 

[Twitches Brew]

Tannehill was absolute garbage against the Jets in week 17. At home. How is this even a debate? Yes, phin fans, we missed the postseason in the last week of the season mainly because our second-year QB sucked with the playoffs on the line. This is not complicated.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

If I posted "I told you so posts" I would be doing it all day every day. I was simply taking a paragraph out of that story, one where the author is clearly blaming Ryan for the 2nd half struggles and not the OL and you can't deal w/ that b/c it goes against your opinion. I don't care about "experts" anyway, if he said Ryan sucks or Ryan was great it wouldn't change my opinion b/c I form my own opinions. I don't need stat sites or anything else to tell me how to think. You are free to disagree w/ me, so is everyone else.

all the talk was about the impending playoff clincher. You guys thought you had it locked up b/c of Ryan but then when he sucks the last 2 weeks and you lose he gets no blame.

The article called the OL the worst in the league. Any other opinions you get from the article are your own and yours alone.

BTW, here are two threads after the NE and before the Buf game explicitly questioning the OL:

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread.php?349084-Blocking-Grades&highlight=buffalo+game

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread.php?349019-How-would-you-fix-the-o-line-in-the-offseason&highlight=buffalo+game

proving once again, you just make **** up......