The stolen tapes?
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ZOD
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"From vertical passing of San Diego with Lance Allworth, to the Isaac Curtis days of Cincy with Kenny Anderson's mobile ball control Offense, to Walsh's horizontal emphasis in San Francisco, the plan has always fit the particular quarterback's strentghs."
Mr. Murder,
That's what I was attempting to convey. It seems to me that two "factions" came out of the Gillman camp.
Gillman while passing vertically still wanted to run in between the tackles while Walsh would rather split the defense by running off tackle. Also Coryell's passing game predominantly took the defense vertically rather than horizontally. That's not to say that part of Coryell's scheme didn't attack all portions of the field. I think the emphasis of the two factions are just different.
I've attempted to make it a thesis that these two factions took what they would from Gillman's passing game and made it their own.
The "link" you asked Muck about:
Martz and Turner ideas came from Zampese who along with Coryell came out of the Sid Gillman camp. Dr. Z summed it up best with an article I linked above.
In addition to being a very heady quarterback, Bernie was obviously a serious student of football history because he had neatly wrapped up the whole progression of a system. Gillman's offense at the Chargers back in the '60s, copied by Don Coryell across town at San Diego State, then adapted again by the Chargers when Coryell became their coach in 1978, brought to the Rams in 1987 when Zampese, who had been Coryell's first lieutenant, joined the L.A. staff, where he worked with Turner, who brought the system to Dallas in '91. Split the seams with your tight end, throw timed, precision patterns to your wideouts with a lot of comebacks at 15-to-18 yardsâ€â€it was vertical and very pretty to watch. It was like slicing a pie.
Martz recently went as far as to make Zampese a consultant to keep him "calm" in game planning. Martz admitted that he was an excitable guy and in the game would tend to throw too much. This is really a novice summation but the plan is to run between the tackles first and challenge the secondary vertically second.
The "long handoff" concept that was developed by Walsh has nothing to do with the system originating from Gillman to Coryell to Zampese to Turner and Martz.
That's what seperates the two schools of thought I think. Rather than the "run first" concept that Turner adheres too, Walsh made it an option to run first through a long handoff through the pass.
It seems to me that the "checkdowns" in a passing play are totally different in the two schemes.
For instance this is how I understand the two different systems from one play:
A Walsh checkdown would run F1 , X2, Z3. The basis of the play being a "long handoff" with the understanding that a run to the edges of the defense is the best option.
Rather Turner's checkdown would start downfield and come back to the fullback in a Z3, X2, F1 order as the play is a result of a run not being the best option.
It's a different concept from my understanding.
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ZOD
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ZOD
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One other thing.
Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on Dr. Z's article but it best describes that these are two totally different systems and Walsh is the faction that "broke off" from the norm.
Walsh took something good and made it better.
On a side note in that article. The old days had much better nicknames than today.
"Francis (Shut-the-Gates-of-Mercy) Schmidt" Now that's cool! How would you like your coach to go by that label? :D
Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on Dr. Z's article but it best describes that these are two totally different systems and Walsh is the faction that "broke off" from the norm.
Walsh took something good and made it better.
On a side note in that article. The old days had much better nicknames than today.
"Francis (Shut-the-Gates-of-Mercy) Schmidt" Now that's cool! How would you like your coach to go by that label? :D
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OK I got it, he was Gibb's O position coach, and Gibbs was a coordinator ? Gibbs really made the control west coast game a 2TE set instead of Walsh's traditional Paul Brown set of 2 backs. The Coryell Chargers was the link of Gibbs to the chain I believe. It was erased off my post at raiderfans for some reason...think it was my comp. 
' Twas much longer my first printing and either my comp froze or the editor got to it, think it was the former... anyways Gibbs 2 TE sets and short control pass (all Theisman could do) are knowns to Phin fans.
Shula's best coach job came that strike season, his team practiced and it showed, as did Gibb's team. It set a standard for work ethic that the Hogs OL of the DC team and the hustling Killer B's were known for. Both of these coaches have direct or influenced links to Paul Brown Sr. another man who really made this sport great.
Gibbs one back sets beat teams at the line with an extra TE, one was like a lineman (big strong guard) and the other was like a quicker H-back. Your team uses this look now with Konrad and RandyMc and the good rook TE. You can go 2 big strong run blocking Te (RM is fundamentally sound blocker for sure). You can go 2 pass catch Te with Konrad as the H back.
Those extra TE as WR looks should have been used in the snow. Use Konrad and 2 TE's and Gadsen as a power look in that weather, that is was not utilized , especially at the goalline, is sad. Phins can still power teams at the edge with this depth.
You lost in NE last year passing out of the end zone and the guys tried the same thing. Play to your strentghs and use JUST GIVE RICKY THE D@*N BALL!
Anyways good luck this week, I'll post the Norv Notions after this next game!:eat: It is Turner's Bro at Illinois, he is more of a downfield coach too, and he had nothing to work with for the Bears the guy could maybe light it up with some players of better caliber at the pro ranks.
' Twas much longer my first printing and either my comp froze or the editor got to it, think it was the former... anyways Gibbs 2 TE sets and short control pass (all Theisman could do) are knowns to Phin fans.
Shula's best coach job came that strike season, his team practiced and it showed, as did Gibb's team. It set a standard for work ethic that the Hogs OL of the DC team and the hustling Killer B's were known for. Both of these coaches have direct or influenced links to Paul Brown Sr. another man who really made this sport great.
Gibbs one back sets beat teams at the line with an extra TE, one was like a lineman (big strong guard) and the other was like a quicker H-back. Your team uses this look now with Konrad and RandyMc and the good rook TE. You can go 2 big strong run blocking Te (RM is fundamentally sound blocker for sure). You can go 2 pass catch Te with Konrad as the H back.
Those extra TE as WR looks should have been used in the snow. Use Konrad and 2 TE's and Gadsen as a power look in that weather, that is was not utilized , especially at the goalline, is sad. Phins can still power teams at the edge with this depth.
You lost in NE last year passing out of the end zone and the guys tried the same thing. Play to your strentghs and use JUST GIVE RICKY THE D@*N BALL!
Anyways good luck this week, I'll post the Norv Notions after this next game!:eat: It is Turner's Bro at Illinois, he is more of a downfield coach too, and he had nothing to work with for the Bears the guy could maybe light it up with some players of better caliber at the pro ranks.
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ZOD
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NO! Not Gibbs.
Ron Turner - "He earned the San Jose State post after coordinating the Stanford offense for three seasons under Dennis Green."
Gibbs ran a ball control offense that originated from Bud Wilkinson in the 1950's with the Oklahoma Sooners.
Don't confuse the situation!
Ron Turner - "He earned the San Jose State post after coordinating the Stanford offense for three seasons under Dennis Green."
Gibbs ran a ball control offense that originated from Bud Wilkinson in the 1950's with the Oklahoma Sooners.
Don't confuse the situation!
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Walsh said he wanted to take Al's vertical philosophy and apply it to the entire field horizontally. It helped manage the clock and made higher percnetage plays. Vertical game is a live and die kind of approach and the west coast was much more a control process.
Walsh tried to find a way to get vertical talent the ball to set up yards after catch in a high percentage style. Still need some more links to check for NT.
Walsh tried to find a way to get vertical talent the ball to set up yards after catch in a high percentage style. Still need some more links to check for NT.
Well the change to the Norv Turner style would be the next issue to focus. Downfield passing, maybe tommorrow, hate to jinx the team's chances of firing him first....j/k it is the QB as much as the playcalls he is innaccurate.
ZOD
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Actually I would like to take this thread in another direction to the defensive side of the ball. It seems like a good thread to do it. I just wish more people would participate...:confused:
I've been thinking of the failures of the Dolphins in general as it relates to the Walsh system.
Take the word "Dynasty". No team has been labeled with that word since the 49ers. It was the beginning of the new era in football where free agency and mediocrity reign supreme. Sure the Cowboys fit the bill after that but that team was built through an anomoly in sports (the Herschel Walker trade). We are doomed to watch mediocre teams fight it out in every game.
What cannot be denied is that certain trends have developed such as the Walsh system since that era. You can see by the "tree" that Walsh's system has had it's fair share of success. What has not been noted here is the success that Steve Young noted of Bill Bellichek's Giant defense against that system. I'll quote from that article here and keep it dolphin related too as "man" defense dominates this team.
"When I played for the 49ers, we loved to see man-to-man defense. I could get the ball quickly to the receivers. Over the 10 years Jerry Rice and John Taylor played together, how many slant routes did they catch and break for a long touchdown? Several -- and most came against single coverage.
The defense that gave us the most difficulty, however, was the New York Giants through the 1980s and the early 1990s under defensive coordinator Bill Belichick. The defense (generally a two-deep zone) wasn't tactically difficult, and we had the plays for it. But the Giants players -- Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Gary Reasons, Leonard Marshall, Pepper Johnson -- were together so long and ran it so well, they limited our explosiveness.
The Giants always had 11 eyeballs on the quarterback. They played zone, faced the quarterback, waited for me to throw the ball and tackled everything, forcing us to work our way down the field. No one was able to get free runs with the ball. Belichick also understood that he could affect the quarterback's timing if a defensive back got in the receiver's face.
Belichick's defense disrupted our timing much like Tony Dungy's, except Dungy added one more element -- Dom Capers' zone blitz. That was the defense I hated to see the most.
The late Fritz Shurmur, who was Green Bay's defensive coordinator from 1994-98, played a lot of zone and was tough and physical with the tight ends. Some of his players should have been arrested for how they mistreated our tight ends, particularly Brent Jones. But Shurmur knew he couldn't defend our offense unless he disrupted the timing."
Now consider how many teams are now running the Walsh system in some form or another and hold that thought.
New England and Philadelphia - The noted powerhouses as of now in their respective divisions and they have one thing in common. They blitz. They blitz and they "bend but don't break".
They also have another thing in common. They'll give up 100 yards to rb's along with 250 yards to the quarterback and they will still win.
How do they do that? It's the league of mediocrity. How else did Philly give up 184 yards to Deuce Mcallister, Curtis Martin 110 yards, Ahman Green 192 yards, Tiki Barber 111 yards, Ricky Williams 107 yards and still manage to win?
The defenses that are winning are those who will give you the underneath stuff. They'll let you catch the short yardage stuff that the Walsh system creates and they make the tackle. All the while they are assuming that you will eventually will make a mistake or a series of three and punt or their blitz will cause a turnover. Sure it's a gamble but their assumptions more often than not are correct.
What's different about Indianapolis this year? One thing, the cover 2. They'll give you the "long handoff" that Walsh discussed and they will make the tackle. They'll send Dwight Freeney up the field with no run support in his game.
Go around the league and take a look at "what they are doing" and see the successes and failures.
Baltimore-There was talk of changing to a 3-4 defense. With the best linebacker in football they contemplate handcuffing him in a 3-4? Why would they do that? It defends against the Walsh system.
Pittsburgh-Year after year and linebacker after linebacker they still field a good defense in the 3-4 with the blitz. Go to Seattle for the "big buck" contract they say.
San Diego-"Old School" Shottenheimer put his cornerbacks on the island. They went "man" and how much success have they experienced in the cradle of the west coast offense?
Buffalo-Most notably mimmicking the failed offensive system of the dolphins. Run between the tackles and stretch the field vertically. On the other side of the ball they went to the zone blitz. Successes? Hhhmmmm......
Tampa Bay- I'll quote Jon Gruden here.
"The defense they had put together was awesome. The one-gap system they use is, philosophically, a defense that I believe in wholeheartedly. You get the hat in the crack and penetrate, disrupt, as opposed to a two-gap, "34" type of approach where there is more reading and reacting. Both ways are effective, but I was from more of a one-gap lineage.
"I want this defense," I told each member of that defensive staff. "I don't want you to go. Please give me an opportunity to work with you."
Less "reading and reacting"? :huh: Sounds similar to a blitz to me but I'm just a dude with a keyboard and too much time on his hands.
I've been thinking of the failures of the Dolphins in general as it relates to the Walsh system.
Take the word "Dynasty". No team has been labeled with that word since the 49ers. It was the beginning of the new era in football where free agency and mediocrity reign supreme. Sure the Cowboys fit the bill after that but that team was built through an anomoly in sports (the Herschel Walker trade). We are doomed to watch mediocre teams fight it out in every game.
What cannot be denied is that certain trends have developed such as the Walsh system since that era. You can see by the "tree" that Walsh's system has had it's fair share of success. What has not been noted here is the success that Steve Young noted of Bill Bellichek's Giant defense against that system. I'll quote from that article here and keep it dolphin related too as "man" defense dominates this team.
"When I played for the 49ers, we loved to see man-to-man defense. I could get the ball quickly to the receivers. Over the 10 years Jerry Rice and John Taylor played together, how many slant routes did they catch and break for a long touchdown? Several -- and most came against single coverage.
The defense that gave us the most difficulty, however, was the New York Giants through the 1980s and the early 1990s under defensive coordinator Bill Belichick. The defense (generally a two-deep zone) wasn't tactically difficult, and we had the plays for it. But the Giants players -- Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Gary Reasons, Leonard Marshall, Pepper Johnson -- were together so long and ran it so well, they limited our explosiveness.
The Giants always had 11 eyeballs on the quarterback. They played zone, faced the quarterback, waited for me to throw the ball and tackled everything, forcing us to work our way down the field. No one was able to get free runs with the ball. Belichick also understood that he could affect the quarterback's timing if a defensive back got in the receiver's face.
Belichick's defense disrupted our timing much like Tony Dungy's, except Dungy added one more element -- Dom Capers' zone blitz. That was the defense I hated to see the most.
The late Fritz Shurmur, who was Green Bay's defensive coordinator from 1994-98, played a lot of zone and was tough and physical with the tight ends. Some of his players should have been arrested for how they mistreated our tight ends, particularly Brent Jones. But Shurmur knew he couldn't defend our offense unless he disrupted the timing."
Now consider how many teams are now running the Walsh system in some form or another and hold that thought.
New England and Philadelphia - The noted powerhouses as of now in their respective divisions and they have one thing in common. They blitz. They blitz and they "bend but don't break".
They also have another thing in common. They'll give up 100 yards to rb's along with 250 yards to the quarterback and they will still win.
How do they do that? It's the league of mediocrity. How else did Philly give up 184 yards to Deuce Mcallister, Curtis Martin 110 yards, Ahman Green 192 yards, Tiki Barber 111 yards, Ricky Williams 107 yards and still manage to win?
The defenses that are winning are those who will give you the underneath stuff. They'll let you catch the short yardage stuff that the Walsh system creates and they make the tackle. All the while they are assuming that you will eventually will make a mistake or a series of three and punt or their blitz will cause a turnover. Sure it's a gamble but their assumptions more often than not are correct.
What's different about Indianapolis this year? One thing, the cover 2. They'll give you the "long handoff" that Walsh discussed and they will make the tackle. They'll send Dwight Freeney up the field with no run support in his game.
Go around the league and take a look at "what they are doing" and see the successes and failures.
Baltimore-There was talk of changing to a 3-4 defense. With the best linebacker in football they contemplate handcuffing him in a 3-4? Why would they do that? It defends against the Walsh system.
Pittsburgh-Year after year and linebacker after linebacker they still field a good defense in the 3-4 with the blitz. Go to Seattle for the "big buck" contract they say.
San Diego-"Old School" Shottenheimer put his cornerbacks on the island. They went "man" and how much success have they experienced in the cradle of the west coast offense?
Buffalo-Most notably mimmicking the failed offensive system of the dolphins. Run between the tackles and stretch the field vertically. On the other side of the ball they went to the zone blitz. Successes? Hhhmmmm......
Tampa Bay- I'll quote Jon Gruden here.
"The defense they had put together was awesome. The one-gap system they use is, philosophically, a defense that I believe in wholeheartedly. You get the hat in the crack and penetrate, disrupt, as opposed to a two-gap, "34" type of approach where there is more reading and reacting. Both ways are effective, but I was from more of a one-gap lineage.
"I want this defense," I told each member of that defensive staff. "I don't want you to go. Please give me an opportunity to work with you."
Less "reading and reacting"? :huh: Sounds similar to a blitz to me but I'm just a dude with a keyboard and too much time on his hands.
Jnaledu3
Perennial All-Pro
so where is wanny on that tree?? i think i saw him on the ground looking for his nut.
Two gap relies on people getting upfield to disrupt blockers that pull and to keep the qb from stpping up into the pocket. It usually leaves 2 safeties deep (2 deep man cover).
Where Dungy changed it was the zone blitz. When DUngy zone blitzes he would use the SS as the 4th lb and zone blitz. The SS holds somebody on the 3 gap to block him and frees an edge man up and he then takes a hot route/reciever instead. When they start rotating out the edge help he will runblitz the 3 gap and the de will take the hot route.
The cover 2 can be beat easily by downfield passing. The players who made cover 2 a non-item, Marino and Aikman. Two qb with pocket presence to go deep and force the 2 deep safeties to cover outside the hashmarks which would free the slot or Te on the post.
How many teams can make the cover 2 work per play? The 2 teams Dungy has built up for cover 2.
Crennel uses cover 2 when he faces qb that cannot throw downfield. Most of his system is 2 deep man that can modify to cover 2 with no problem since the safeties start at same spot for each look.
Man the corners can use contact but usually play a "loose man" where they run with the WR and let the cover helps (OLB and SS) take certain routes away. Good pass rush pressure that forces bad passes can then have one of 3 players make a play on the ball in standard sets.
Cover 2 the corners sit certain routes based on down/distance. The yards needed will determine the probable route, the corners sit that particular route. Watch cover 2 they sit that route and force a release that lets help take the other routes. Forcing insiode release steers them towards help from LB pass drops or Safety step up/switches.
It helps to have lenient refs, when pass interference was called stringently teams avoided the cover 2 also. So many teams run a base 3 wr that cover 2 usually relies on a double team of the best interior wr on a given down/distance as well. It was Tampa's main superbowl tactic to make Jerry Porter a non-item in the slot.
The Norv system is much simpler, at its best it requires less motion and works from the base set. It is much more based on Isolation routes. West coast uses more picks/screens or clear outs to open pass windows for other Iso routes in max cover sets, vs. man or zone respectively.
Where Dungy changed it was the zone blitz. When DUngy zone blitzes he would use the SS as the 4th lb and zone blitz. The SS holds somebody on the 3 gap to block him and frees an edge man up and he then takes a hot route/reciever instead. When they start rotating out the edge help he will runblitz the 3 gap and the de will take the hot route.
The cover 2 can be beat easily by downfield passing. The players who made cover 2 a non-item, Marino and Aikman. Two qb with pocket presence to go deep and force the 2 deep safeties to cover outside the hashmarks which would free the slot or Te on the post.
How many teams can make the cover 2 work per play? The 2 teams Dungy has built up for cover 2.
Crennel uses cover 2 when he faces qb that cannot throw downfield. Most of his system is 2 deep man that can modify to cover 2 with no problem since the safeties start at same spot for each look.
Man the corners can use contact but usually play a "loose man" where they run with the WR and let the cover helps (OLB and SS) take certain routes away. Good pass rush pressure that forces bad passes can then have one of 3 players make a play on the ball in standard sets.
Cover 2 the corners sit certain routes based on down/distance. The yards needed will determine the probable route, the corners sit that particular route. Watch cover 2 they sit that route and force a release that lets help take the other routes. Forcing insiode release steers them towards help from LB pass drops or Safety step up/switches.
It helps to have lenient refs, when pass interference was called stringently teams avoided the cover 2 also. So many teams run a base 3 wr that cover 2 usually relies on a double team of the best interior wr on a given down/distance as well. It was Tampa's main superbowl tactic to make Jerry Porter a non-item in the slot.
The Norv system is much simpler, at its best it requires less motion and works from the base set. It is much more based on Isolation routes. West coast uses more picks/screens or clear outs to open pass windows for other Iso routes in max cover sets, vs. man or zone respectively.
Norv Notions: play pass football and the base isolation set.
Norv Turner's greatest success was with the Dallas Cowboys, he was part of the best modern era dynasty from a standpoint of core players outside the Steel Curtain of Pittsburgh in the 70's.
What made his system work so well? Scheme , talent, or both?
Look at each closely and see it relies more on talent than scheme, but NO SYSTEM works without pure fundamental football. Norv's execution of sound football principles established his system.
The best Dallas system under Turner stressed the standard base set. Double sets of backs and recievers and a tremendous tightend's talent.Look closely at each of these great individuals and how their abilities meshed.
Their WR's prime playmaker was Michael Irvin, who used his size and fundamentals to become dominant. Tom Landry originanlly drafted him, seeing his dedication to the basics as a sure foundation for achieving true star status. Irvin possessd the size to mismatch almost all corners and most safeties as well. His speed was too much for the physical size of interior defenders as well. He was a per down mismatch.
Alvin Harper (then others) reciever complimented Irvin. Their ability to go deep, and make plays off their feet on the deep pass if needed made teams respect the bomb, which further opened chances for Irvin's mismatch possession routes.
Their great backs were accomplished in every phase as well. Emmit SMith is the all time leading rusher, a workhorse in his heyday. He improved his pass catch abilities as well. Teams that overlooked the man for slow 40 times missed a tough runner who took it nose to nose and lowered the power shoulder to meet contact like few ever have. The final aspect of his game, most overlooked, was the tremndous pass blocking and hard sale on the play fakes to make the play action pass deadly for this team.
A terrific complimentary fullback "Moose" Johnston who could catch outlet passes as the last read, protect the ball in limited reps , and was a tremendous blocker in both run and pass protection rounds this base set backfield out.
The final piece of the puzzle was Jay Novachek, a fundamentally sound tight end who could seal the edge with technique blocking. He also could line up in the slot as a mismatch for most defenders. His downfield ability, route running, and clutch play were perhaps the biggest key for their team as the net team results after his departure were less.
To each of these great individuals a QB would throw that had the poise to distribute the ball as well as anyone. Troy Aikman was tall and had a pocket presence his vision made reads a given. His arm could make the big throw so teams would not load up the coverage on short passes. His mind grasped the game well and he made terrific reads and adjustments at the line also. Much of this is due to the great run game and protection he recieved by the final feature of the Norv Notions...
The offensive line play under Dallas recieved a new style emphasis on size and power. The Dallas linemen, ouside of their center, were college/pro tackles. The trend was west coast style with pulling guards and heavy downblocks and chopblocks. Dallas instead used size and a zoneblock scheme.
The zoneblock scheme uses more spacing between linemen so the distance from tackle to tackle in the box is wider. Teams that 'two gap' then have more space to cover and their man can be rode upfield to leave more space. Rules changes made more teams follow suit (in addition to its success).
Zone blockers basically switch assingments more than they follow blocks. The players simplify things and take the man in front of them for a ride on the other side of the line. Drive blocking and straightfoward downhill running are the emphatic features of this offense.If players overload or edge rush they start out further and have move space to cover. Getting too far upfield on runs can help the offense break bigger plays.
The main style was line up, defeat the player across from you per man, until something is done to stop it. Count the gaps, the spot with space is the run target. Per man (often per shoulder) is the key. If the end lines up edge, run inside him. If he lines 'nose up' or slants down take it wide. Very simple.
Using vocal checkdowns for which edge of the lead block at the point to run was something the line and singal caller must make note of in this scheme. Simple blunt force trauma on an eleven player basis.
As for passing from this base set, the run game forces an 8 man box to stop it. Bring an extra defender up to stop the run. Suddenly the play pass is a big option. The free safety drop after snap and line up presnap determines the play. Safeties cheating the 2 deep style can be attacked vertically down the sidelines or with the post route via the tight end.
The free safety in 8 man front will be the only defender for half the field, and the side he rolls away from allows isolation routes. The iso route is Norv Turner system's bread and butter. The key route for Norv's iso is the out. The reciever runs from 5-10 yards and breaks outside parrallell to the line. If the cornerback plays soft (a tendancy for solo covers) the result is a catch and a moving of the chains.
Once teams line the corners on these outs the out and up or hesitation /go are open. These plays require more time but occur often when the run game and the zone block line are intact.Teams that go straight cover allow more time to develop these progressions.
The tight end works full cover sets better as well seeing as he gets more free space to roam.
The zone block spacing makes teams have to show blitzes early as well. Simple sets allow more hard counts to establish timing and manage the game too. Overloads caught in such manner can be defeated with more iso skill matchups.
This scheme must be beat up front. Blitzing increases the chances of success for the most part if the team gets out of huddle quickly and identifies this via hard count/audible. the personnell make the scheme work at its fundamental level.
Looks at more of the route progressions at later times will go off the primary route progression. Hopefully this is enough to improve the Norv vibes down the stretch. Good Luck.:happydrin
Norv Turner's greatest success was with the Dallas Cowboys, he was part of the best modern era dynasty from a standpoint of core players outside the Steel Curtain of Pittsburgh in the 70's.
What made his system work so well? Scheme , talent, or both?
Look at each closely and see it relies more on talent than scheme, but NO SYSTEM works without pure fundamental football. Norv's execution of sound football principles established his system.
The best Dallas system under Turner stressed the standard base set. Double sets of backs and recievers and a tremendous tightend's talent.Look closely at each of these great individuals and how their abilities meshed.
Their WR's prime playmaker was Michael Irvin, who used his size and fundamentals to become dominant. Tom Landry originanlly drafted him, seeing his dedication to the basics as a sure foundation for achieving true star status. Irvin possessd the size to mismatch almost all corners and most safeties as well. His speed was too much for the physical size of interior defenders as well. He was a per down mismatch.
Alvin Harper (then others) reciever complimented Irvin. Their ability to go deep, and make plays off their feet on the deep pass if needed made teams respect the bomb, which further opened chances for Irvin's mismatch possession routes.
Their great backs were accomplished in every phase as well. Emmit SMith is the all time leading rusher, a workhorse in his heyday. He improved his pass catch abilities as well. Teams that overlooked the man for slow 40 times missed a tough runner who took it nose to nose and lowered the power shoulder to meet contact like few ever have. The final aspect of his game, most overlooked, was the tremndous pass blocking and hard sale on the play fakes to make the play action pass deadly for this team.
A terrific complimentary fullback "Moose" Johnston who could catch outlet passes as the last read, protect the ball in limited reps , and was a tremendous blocker in both run and pass protection rounds this base set backfield out.
The final piece of the puzzle was Jay Novachek, a fundamentally sound tight end who could seal the edge with technique blocking. He also could line up in the slot as a mismatch for most defenders. His downfield ability, route running, and clutch play were perhaps the biggest key for their team as the net team results after his departure were less.
To each of these great individuals a QB would throw that had the poise to distribute the ball as well as anyone. Troy Aikman was tall and had a pocket presence his vision made reads a given. His arm could make the big throw so teams would not load up the coverage on short passes. His mind grasped the game well and he made terrific reads and adjustments at the line also. Much of this is due to the great run game and protection he recieved by the final feature of the Norv Notions...
The offensive line play under Dallas recieved a new style emphasis on size and power. The Dallas linemen, ouside of their center, were college/pro tackles. The trend was west coast style with pulling guards and heavy downblocks and chopblocks. Dallas instead used size and a zoneblock scheme.
The zoneblock scheme uses more spacing between linemen so the distance from tackle to tackle in the box is wider. Teams that 'two gap' then have more space to cover and their man can be rode upfield to leave more space. Rules changes made more teams follow suit (in addition to its success).
Zone blockers basically switch assingments more than they follow blocks. The players simplify things and take the man in front of them for a ride on the other side of the line. Drive blocking and straightfoward downhill running are the emphatic features of this offense.If players overload or edge rush they start out further and have move space to cover. Getting too far upfield on runs can help the offense break bigger plays.
The main style was line up, defeat the player across from you per man, until something is done to stop it. Count the gaps, the spot with space is the run target. Per man (often per shoulder) is the key. If the end lines up edge, run inside him. If he lines 'nose up' or slants down take it wide. Very simple.
Using vocal checkdowns for which edge of the lead block at the point to run was something the line and singal caller must make note of in this scheme. Simple blunt force trauma on an eleven player basis.
As for passing from this base set, the run game forces an 8 man box to stop it. Bring an extra defender up to stop the run. Suddenly the play pass is a big option. The free safety drop after snap and line up presnap determines the play. Safeties cheating the 2 deep style can be attacked vertically down the sidelines or with the post route via the tight end.
The free safety in 8 man front will be the only defender for half the field, and the side he rolls away from allows isolation routes. The iso route is Norv Turner system's bread and butter. The key route for Norv's iso is the out. The reciever runs from 5-10 yards and breaks outside parrallell to the line. If the cornerback plays soft (a tendancy for solo covers) the result is a catch and a moving of the chains.
Once teams line the corners on these outs the out and up or hesitation /go are open. These plays require more time but occur often when the run game and the zone block line are intact.Teams that go straight cover allow more time to develop these progressions.
The tight end works full cover sets better as well seeing as he gets more free space to roam.
The zone block spacing makes teams have to show blitzes early as well. Simple sets allow more hard counts to establish timing and manage the game too. Overloads caught in such manner can be defeated with more iso skill matchups.
This scheme must be beat up front. Blitzing increases the chances of success for the most part if the team gets out of huddle quickly and identifies this via hard count/audible. the personnell make the scheme work at its fundamental level.
Looks at more of the route progressions at later times will go off the primary route progression. Hopefully this is enough to improve the Norv vibes down the stretch. Good Luck.:happydrin
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