Tua vs. Herbert

[eMCee85]

Since you can't understand the statistics doesnt mean they are crap.

Just say you haven't a clue whats going on and save some embarrassment.

Ha. Ill admit I didn't know some of what he was talking about and had to look. Im not ashamed to say that. But there are stats out there that don't mean squat. Like someone bored sitting in their basement said, hmmmm, we don't have a stat for pass percentage going against the wind while its raining, 20 + yards or more with hang time of 3+ seconds on 3rd down so ill make one... it just has no weight to show or give a picture of whats actually happening or how well someone is performing.

Knawleges stats actually paint a picture of how they are performing and they're not that far off from eachother. Both are good qbs

 

[danstilldaman]

at this point herbert vs tua is like comparing xbox and playstation...basically whatever one you have youre gonna say is better

herbert is playing well as a rookie, theres no reason to try to discredit his play by bringing up their record or some late game rookie mistakes, theyve lost alot of games by 7 or less...overall herbert has played very well and is most likely a lock for OROY.


There's no way that Herbert should win OROY over Justin Jefferson

 

[Phinatic8u]

Ha. Ill admit I didn't know some of what he was talking about and had to look. Im not ashamed to say that. But there are stats out there that don't mean squat. Like someone bored sitting in their basement said, hmmmm, we don't have a stat for pass percentage going against the wind while its raining, 20 + yards or more with hang time of 3+ seconds on 3rd down so ill make one... it just has no weight to show or give a picture of whats actually happening or how well someone is performing.

Knawleges stats actually paint a picture of how they are performing and they're not that far off from eachother. Both are good qbs

All the stats he posted aren't made up. Its a picture of how a player is playing.

If you have 500 attempts but only the 16th ranked td % you aint doing ****, just a bunch of useless air.

 

[NBP81]

All the stats he posted aren't made up. Its a picture of how a player is playing.

If you have 500 attempts but only the 16th ranked td % you aint doing ****, just a bunch of useless air.

He's trolling...
I posted this thread:

These are stats on a very low sample size, so take this with a grain of salt... I know Burrow is out but he still has more pass attempts than Tua so I felt it was fair to include him here...

Tua is #1 in rating with 95.2, closely followed by Herbert with 94.7 and Burrow sitting(Too soon?) at 89.8.

They're all very close in YPA with Tua being 3rd at 6.6 behind Burrow(6.7) and Herbert(6.9).

Tua also leads the league in INT% at 0.5% while Joe Burrow was 5th and Herbert 14th.

When it come to TD%, Herbert lead with 5% very closely followed by Tua at 4.9% with Burrow ranking 30th in the NFL with 3.2%...

And this is with Tua Tagovailoa leading the NFL in AGG%, which is kind of misleading as it is more of a reflection of the ability of his receivers to get open... Anyways, a whopping 27% of his throws are considered to be in thight windows, theres a 4.7% gap between him and the 2nd place. To put it in perspective, I havent seen a gap between places bigger than 1.5 anywhere else on the chart. Joe Burrow's AGG% is 21.5% and Herbert's is 18.8%.

And this was his response:

Out of all the Tua posts, this is probably the best one. Good stuff bro! I really like what I see from him and I know he will only get better, especially with more pieces to the puzzle. The only thing that gets me is I cringe whenever he gets hit because, well, I really just don't want to lose the kid the way the bengals lost Burrow. Phins up!

Dont waste a second more on this guy, as you'll never get that second back...

 

[A1.]

He's trolling...
I posted this thread:

And this was his response:

Dont waste a second more on this guy, as you'll never get that second back...

that’s what she said

 

[eMCee85]

All the stats he posted aren't made up. Its a picture of how a player is playing.

If you have 500 attempts but only the 16th ranked td % you aint doing ****, just a bunch of useless air.

Since the rule change its been watered down alot. Herbert is 9th for TD with 27 and 8th in yards with 3,781. He's right behind Mahomes and right in front of tannehill at 15th for completion % at 66.5. Thats not bad at all for a rookie qb. My whole thing is this, im behind Tua 100% but to say Herbert isn't good is just plain false!

 

[NBP81]

Since the rule change its been watered down alot. Herbert is 9th for TD with 27 and 8th in yards with 3,781. He's right behind Mahomes and right in front of tannehill at 15th for completion % at 66.5. Thats not bad at all for a rookie qb. My whole thing is this, im behind Tua 100% but to say Herbert isn't good is just plain false!

Math isnt a strong suit for you now is it...?

 

[rafael]

I don't believe that Tua is more likely to be better over his career simply b/c he's a Dolphin. I had both Tua and Herbert rated as high first round picks and either would have been reasonable choices at #5. But I believed then and continue to believe that Tua has more of the traits that are predictive of long-term NFL success. Specifically, superior accuracy, processing speed and football IQ. Herbert has a more powerful arm and is bigger and faster. But in my experience Tua's traits are more likely to result in long term NFL success.

I can see why some like Herbert better. Those measurable traits are easy to see and easy to be wowed by. But IMO their respective performances against NE are informative. I don't mean the score, b/c that adds more variables related to the coaching and supporting talent. I mean how the QBs read the defenses and adapted. My impression watching both games was that Herbert was confused and unable to adapt or compensate while Tua was able to figure it out and adapt. Obviously it's possible that given enough experience that Herbert will one day be just as good on the mental side (and still be the better physical specimen), but I don't see it as a given. The vast majority of QB prospects never reach Tua's current mental level (and we're talking about a QB that would be playing his 3rd game after a full preseason in a typical year!). We've seen so many QBs come out and play very well year 1 and then have the league catch up to them in year 2. Or be good right away and then just level out. I don't know for a fact that that will happen to Herbert or to Tua (and I'm not predicting it for either guy), but if I had two prospects with those above traits, I'd guess that the one with the mental traits was more likely to succeed or more likely to achieve higher and longer success.

BTW I fully expect that this debate will never be finished. If both go on to have great careers, I suspect that Herbert's will continue to have many "wow" plays while Tua's will look more like Joe Montana's. Joe made everything look easy and much of his success was always discounted as being b/c of great coaching and a great supporting cast. I would be fine with that. I'd love to have to "settle" for winning multiple championships and being seen as decade long dynasty while having some never really understand what it was that made Tua great. LOL

 

[eMCee85]

He's trolling...
I posted this thread:

And this was his response:

Dont waste a second more on this guy, as you'll never get that second back...

Lol. No I told you it was a good post. It still is. But you went into some other stats trying to say Herbert isn't good. Thats where I disagree with you. At least thats how I perceived it. If you weren't fine you should have said something, but instead you got mad like you were on your period. And after seeing more and more of your posts... you seem like an ornery old stat man that lives by your computer generated models and dont wanna hear anything else. Why you so angry lil buddy? :)

 

[NBP81]

Lol. No I told you it was a good post. It still is. But you went into some other stats trying to say Herbert isn't good. Thats where I disagree with you. At least thats how I perceived it. If you weren't fine you should have said something, but instead you got mad like you were on your period. And after seeing more and more of your posts... you seem like an ornery old stat man that lives by your computer generated models and dont wanna hear anything else. Why you so angry lil buddy? :)