Tua vs Trevor - The Truth: Analysis

Phinatic8u

Please football gods, grace us Tua or Trevor
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I just heard a bunch of excuses as to why a team got thoroughly dominated.

Of course Trevor looked like a true freshman sometimes, HE WAS...Putting the ball where your wideouts to make plays is not 50/50 balls, it's football.

Tua was phenomenal in that game, but to act like Trevor just got bailed out by his teammates is ignorant. Waste of 30 minutes.
 

TedSlimmJr

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I just heard a bunch of excuses as to why a team got thoroughly dominated.

Of course Trevor looked like a true freshman sometimes, HE WAS...

Tua was phenomenal in that game, but to act like Trevor just got bailed out by his teammates is ignorant. Waste of 30 minutes.

I knew you would say that.

He clearly says Clemson was more prepared, better coached, and flat out beat Alabama. This is for the people who exaggerate Tua’s performance in that game.

He also clearly points out Tua’s ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes and deal with pressure. Trevor doesn’t do any of that. He just threw one way the whole game (Savion Smith) and watched his receivers slap him to the ground, run wide open, make amazing catches on poorly thrown balls, and never have to deal with pressure.

But, some people just refuse to acknowledge facts. They just won’t.
 

Phinatic8u

Please football gods, grace us Tua or Trevor
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I knew you would say that.

He clearly says Clemson was more prepared, better coached, and flat out beat Alabama. This is for the people who exaggerate Tua’s performance in that game.

He also clearly points out Tua’s ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes and deal with pressure. Trevor doesn’t do any of that. He just threw one way the whole game (Savion Smith) and watched his receivers slap him to the ground, run wide open, make amazing catches on poorly thrown balls, and never have to deal with pressure.

But, some people just refuse to acknowledge facts. They just won’t.
Of course those are the facts, if you came out that game disappointed any either qb you don't understand just how good they are.

Tua was great, Trevor was great. What else matters lol.

To the people discrediting Tua for that game do not need to enter this thread..Good day.
 

EJay

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The hype over Lawrence is crazy to me. I think people are overreacting to the fact that he’s was a freshman and part of a huge upset in winning a National title.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Lawrence proved not to be a typical freshman QB and has a lot of potential toward becoming an elite QB. But anyone suggesting that he’s somehow already ahead of a Tua Tagavailova simply hasn’t watched enough of both QB’s beyond some highlights or a game here or there.

The videos above provide some context about their differing circumstances.
 
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TedSlimmJr

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How does this graphic factor into the equation?


Start reading with post #131 here:




If you watched all 7 of the videos in their entirety, the aspect of the system Trevor is playing in is clearly pointed out.

I don’t think people realize Tua has had 3 different OC’s in the 16 1/2 games he’s played. Let that sink in.

If you’ve seen every game Tua and Trevor have played in and studied them closely - and still can’t see that Tua is processing information faster and executing details of the position on a level that Trevor isn’t doing - then it’s difficult to even have a real conversation.

Trevor tends to stare down his receivers and throw to one side of the field. Those monster receivers he has take ownership of a lot of those 50/50 balls.

Again, this isn’t to knock Trevor - but the facts are what they are.

Discussing narratives are not the same as evaluating two quarterbacks and what they’re doing.
 

DPhinz_DPhinz

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Start reading with post #131 here:




If you watched all 7 of the videos in their entirety, the aspect of the system Trevor is playing in is clearly pointed out.

I don’t think people realize Tua has had 3 different OC’s in the 16 1/2 games he’s played. Let that sink in.

If you’ve seen every game Tua and Trevor have played in and studied them closely - and still can’t see that Tua is processing information faster and executing details of the position on a level that Trevor isn’t doing - then it’s difficult to even have a real conversation.

Trevor tends to stare down his receivers and throw to one side of the field. Those monster receivers he has take ownership of a lot of those 50/50 balls.

Again, this isn’t to knock Trevor - but the facts are what they are.

Discussing narratives are not the same as evaluating two quarterbacks and what they’re doing.
The videos were biased to say the least. I couldn't get past the 3rd one.

"Trevor throws Lot of 50/50 balls."

"Trevor can't fit it in tight windows."

This video begs to differ. Tua is your guy, but a one-sided commentary automatically brings out the contrarian in me.

 

TedSlimmJr

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The videos were biased to say the least. I couldn't get past the 3rd one.

"Trevor throws Lot of 50/50 balls."

"Trevor can't fit it in tight windows."

This video begs to differ. Tua is your guy, but a one-sided commentary automatically brings out the contrarian in me.


Well, the twitter stats you posted regarding top 30 defenses are biased. Tua was playing on one leg when he saw those defenses.

Sure the videos I provided here are biased, but only in the tone - not biased in the facts presented in terms of what’s going on with these two quarterbacks. All you have to do is watch the plays and understand what you’re looking at. I promise what he’s showing you is far more factual than anything you’re going to read on message boards or twitter.

Furthermore, the highlight video you provided here only proves my point. Those WR’s are running wide open and Mossing bad DB’s on 50/50 balls. He’s not manipulating any defenses with his eyes, and he’s not dealing with any pressure. It’s 7 on 7 out there for Clemson.

We’re going to use total defense since that seems to be the measure used here to determine “top 30” defenses Tua faced.

Here are the defensive rankings (total defense) for the teams Trevor faced last year:

Alabama - 16th
Notre Dame - 30th
Texas A&M - 32nd
Georgia Southern - 41st
Georgia Tech - 46th
Pittsburgh - 59th
N.C. State - 66th
Boston College - 70th
Duke - 77th
Florida St. - 80th
S. Carolina - 84th
Syracuse - 88th
Wake Forest - 116th
Louisville - 122nd
Furman - FCS


Trevor only faced 2 defense in the top 30, and had a month to prepare for both of em.



Here are the defensive rankings (total defense) for the teams Tua faced last year:

Mississippi St. - 1st
Clemson - 5th
Georgia - 13th
LSU - 25th
Texas A&M - 32nd
Auburn - 37th
Arkansas St. - 45th
Tennessee - 49th
Missouri - 62nd
Arkansas - 79th
UL-Lafayette - 97th
Oklahoma - 112th
Ole Miss - 121st
Louisville - 122nd
The Citadel - FCS


Auburn ranked 37th in total defense - but there’s no question Auburn is one of the top 8 defenses in the country in terms of talent, scheme and ability. Tua threw 5 TD’s and 0 INT’s against that defense. Ask Justin Herbert if Auburn is a top 30 defense.

I mean it’s not even close. Tua set an NCAA record for QB efficiency facing those type defenses. It’s unreal. Additionally, people are acting like Tua lost these games. The only loss was to Clemson in a game that he was still displaying the better quarterbacking skills to his counterpart.

Furthermore, Tua went into the playoffs with one of his best offensive lineman (Deonte Brown) suspended. He still can’t come back yet.

I mean swap the QB’s in that game and see what happens...

I’d just like to see Trevor have to navigate defenses like the ones Tua saw last year on a weekly basis - but we’re just not going to see it since he plays an ACC schedule.

Trevor is a really good young quarterback. Him and Phillip Rivers are probably the two best true freshman I’ve ever seen. But to act like Tua was anything but phenomenal during his first season as a starter - despite constant changes in coordinators and playing on one leg against the best defenses in college football is utter stupidity.
 

hoops

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Well all I know is that was one hell of a national championship game that Lawrence played as a true freshman.
 

TedSlimmJr

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Anyone that thinks the analysis provided is biased - just mute it and watch the damn film.

You tell me which quarterback was dealing with pressure and which one wasn't. Tell me which quarterback was throwing dimes into tight windows and which quarterback had receivers jumping up and reaching behind them to make incredible one handed stabs.

You tell me which quarterback was manipulating defenders with his eyes. You tell me which quarterback was able to just stare at one side of the field and throw at the same guy constantly.

You tell me which quarterback was having to move around throwing lasers and which one was just standing there throwing at #4 everytime.

You tell me which QB had receivers running wide open after slapping the guy checking him to the ground. You don't have to listen to him to be able to see what's going on.




One of the more interesting stats is that Clemson has averaged more yards on Etienne's runs (8.6) than they have Trevor's passes (8.2) over the past 2 seasons.

Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, Jordan Love, Jake Fromm, Dwayne Haskins, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, etc. etc. They've all had 2 interception games against lesser teams. But most of 'em won all those games because their teammates weren't being outplayed so badly. Tua didn't have that luxury on this night.

His whole point is that this night belonged to Clemson and they were the better team. It didn't matter who was the quarterback for Alabama that night. It didn't matter if it was Tom Brady or Joe Montana - Alabama wasn't winning this game. He's absolutely right that Tua would've had to go 55 for 60 for 600 yards and 7 TD's just for Alabama to have a chance. Because almost everybody else around him was getting outplayed - some in embarrassing fashion - and the coaches outcoached. Forget about the blatant PI's not called, that's just football.

None of that is bias. It's just the truth.




Believe me I don't want to see Tua go to Miami either. We agree on that. I'd much rather see Trevor or Herbert or somebody end up there and have to suffer that ****
 

RobertHorry

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How is this even a discussion about Tua vs Trevor.

Anyone who knows an ounce of football can see Tua is a better quarterback. Trevor is a good prospect but are you guys kidding me? Imagine if Trevor was on the Dolphins or Bengals vs Tua. One of them raises the play of players around them and can make things happen. The other lets the players around them make things happen.

Zac Taylor could play QB at age 40 for one of offenses and they still would've dominated everyone. Heck, I am sure Adam Gase could've sniffed some salt then played QB and that same team would dominate everyone. I'll let you all figure out which team that is.
 

ckparrothead

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I don’t think people realize Tua has had 3 different OC’s in the 16 1/2 games he’s played. Let that sink in.
This. So much this.

When Josh Rosen goes out there and performs poorly, people often say that his having so many OCs in a short span sabotaged him. He can't continue to look good in those conditions, even in the Pac-12. Except...
 
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