Was Dan Marino greatest rookie QB? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Was Dan Marino greatest rookie QB?

everyone knew what Miami was going to do on Offense in Marino's rookie season...YET could not stop him.

You are confusing '83 Miami with later Dolphin cupcake teams in the Marino era. In '83 we were still a very balanced team. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I've posted them many times so it's fairly simple to recall. We ran the ball more than 30 times in virtually every game that season. I think the exception was the loss at New England.

Not until the road game at San Diego in '84 did the Dolphin powder puff era begin, refusing to run the ball and therefore forfeiting any semblance of legitimacy.

Still, I pick Marino. No rookie QB had more field presence than Dan. The playoff loss was attributable to a sloppy field and a great opposing rookie RB in Curt Warner. We had many marginal athletes on defense in those years and they couldn't threaten to contain someone as aggressive and slippery as Warner. He was HOF caliber minus the knee injury suffered early the following season. Damn shame.

I remember Greg Cook, who everyone raves about. He fit the mode of that era, downfield brilliance but high INT ratio and relatively low completion percentage. Great stature and arm. I watched the '69 opener when he beat us. At that point the legend status hadn't begun but it was in full force within a month. Against Miami, Cook would trot to the sideline and look baffled like a normal rookie QB.

He's like some of the young horses who never got to fulfill their promise, like Hoist the Flag or Landaluce or Vindication.

Vince Young doesn't belong on a list like that. He was a stiff, then as now.

When I was a kid the TV commentators assessing this category always raved about Bob Waterfield of the Rams. I think he was a rookie starter and won the title. It's a prime example of how absurdly the lists always tilt toward recent seasons. The Waterfield backers are long gone, from the airwaves and this earth.

Actually, I think Waterfield dominates this category when you consider he was already married to Jane Russell as a rookie. That's two huge, uh, accomplishments. :D
 
Marino's 9 game stats projected over 16 games look like this:
3929 yds
35.5 TD
10.6 INT

That's a complete joke. The guy was never actually a rookie. He was in his prime out of the gate.
 
You are confusing '83 Miami with later Dolphin cupcake teams in the Marino era. In '83 we were still a very balanced team. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I've posted them many times so it's fairly simple to recall. We ran the ball more than 30 times in virtually every game that season. I think the exception was the loss at New England.


Not Really? Before Marino, Miami won thier games with defense, and a little bit of running and passing, Miami was more of a running team by commity, and not exactly a high scoring offense, in comes Marino, and all of a sudden the offense becomes high scoring, you probably either did not see it or don't remember, but I do, teams were trying to stop Marino in 83, Miami scored more TDs in the air then on the ground (Something that rarely happened before Marino).

You can show all the stats you want (Marino threw for way more Yards w/ less games started, then all the RBs on Maimi ), that year all your heard on all football shows was how Dan Marino was the new great QB, how teams were working on trying to stop him....unsuccessfully, and interviews with coaches of other teams telling us how good they thought this young Rookie was, and was going to be.

Trust me, Miami was far less balanced going into the last 6 games of the season (Obviously I do not have the stats in front of me, and could be wrong, but I remember in the last few games it being mostly Marino), then they were before that. Shula was known to use what he had, and once he saw what he had at QB compared to RB (Nathon was a bigger weapon catching the ball then running w/ it anyway), Miami became a passing team.
 
Not Really? Before Marino, Miami won thier games with defense, and a little bit of running and passing, Miami was more of a running team by commity, and not exactly a high scoring offense, in comes Marino, and all of a sudden the offense becomes high scoring, you probably either did not see it or don't remember, but I do, teams were trying to stop Marino in 83, Miami scored more TDs in the air then on the ground (Something that rarely happened before Marino).

You can show all the stats you want (Marino threw for way more Yards w/ less games started, then all the RBs on Maimi ), that year all your heard on all football shows was how Dan Marino was the new great QB, how teams were working on trying to stop him....unsuccessfully, and interviews with coaches of other teams telling us how good they thought this young Rookie was, and was going to be.

Trust me, Miami was far less balanced going into the last 6 games of the season (Obviously I do not have the stats in front of me, and could be wrong, but I remember in the last few games it being mostly Marino), then they were before that. Shula was known to use what he had, and once he saw what he had at QB compared to RB (Nathon was a bigger weapon catching the ball then running w/ it anyway), Miami became a passing team.

I'll stick with what I posted previously. We were still a balanced team in '83 although there were disturbing tendencies toward too much passing. I remember leaving the Orange Bowl fuming after an OT loss to Buffalo, Marino's first start. We ran the ball plenty but it should have been more. Buffalo was inferior to the Dolphins and we gave that game away. Marino threw two INTs.

Here is a site with stats. Miami ran the ball more often that we passed it in each of the last six games of '83, including the playoff loss to Seattle. A year later, precisely at the San Diego game, we started the masochistic trend of avoiding the nourishing rushing attempts. That went on for years. I made plenty of successful wagers against us but it was disgusting to witness as a fan.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/1983.htm
 
Marino's 9 game stats projected over 16 games look like this:
3929 yds
35.5 TD
10.6 INT

That's a complete joke. The guy was never actually a rookie. He was in his prime out of the gate.

yes he was, too bad he never had a running game that is what made him better
 
^ This

Marino was probably the best rookie QB as a player. But certainly the success of Ben's rookie year can't be duplicated. The Steelers went 15-1 and went all the way to the AFC title game. Marino lost in the first round to the damn Seahawks.

That's the issue. Best rookie QB (player). Marino has no peer in that regard.
The question isn't which rookie QB started for the best team.
 
I'll stick with what I posted previously. We were still a balanced team in '83 although there were disturbing tendencies toward too much passing. I remember leaving the Orange Bowl fuming after an OT loss to Buffalo, Marino's first start. We ran the ball plenty but it should have been more. Buffalo was inferior to the Dolphins and we gave that game away. Marino threw two INTs.

Here is a site with stats. Miami ran the ball more often that we passed it in each of the last six games of '83, including the playoff loss to Seattle. A year later, precisely at the San Diego game, we started the masochistic trend of avoiding the nourishing rushing attempts. That went on for years. I made plenty of successful wagers against us but it was disgusting to witness as a fan.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/1983.htm

Your points are well taken on needing to be a balanced team - we were not and we needed to be.

However, Miami ran the ball 43 times against the Bills in Marino's first start. His 2 INT's were on the 1st 2 possessions of the game. We missed 2 FG's in OT and the defense kept allowing the Bills to score and tie the game (and eventually win it).

In the cited SD loss in '84, the reasons we lost was the same: 1) missed FG at the end, 2) defense blew a lead (28-14), plus a new one 3) RB fumbled at the goal line into the endzone costing us points. The Seattle playoff loss was similar: an Overstreet fumble with us ahead and driving helped set up the loss, coupled with poor late game defense (again).

Miami's 84 backfield should have been Andra Franklin and David Overstreet. Instead, due to injury and death, Woody Bennett! was our leading rusher.

IMO, the stats showing our decreased rushing attempts and increased passing attempts is the SYMPTOM and not the CAUSE. Drastically reduced talent on the defensive side and RB position coupled with poor replacements drove the shift to a pass-happy offense.

Think about this list of players lost prematurely to injury/death in this period: Overstreet, Franklin, Duhe, Gordon, H. Green, D. Stephenson, Baumhower.

I've never agreed with the position that simply running Bennett or Stradford or Hampton or (later) Higgs or Parmalee "more" would have changed anything and made us a better team. Most of those RB's (who were our leading rushers at some time) played on other teams and were basically scrubs. We lost because we played poorly defensively and had trouble running the ball on decent teams. Many games in that period, our defense was being shredded, we fell behind and had to pass.
 
It wasn't just what Marino did, it was the way he did it. The kind of intensity he showed, and his ability to literally lift the whole team on his shoulders was IMMEDIATELY apparent.

OK so I remember that Monday night game against Oakland - Marino's 1st regular season playing time - and we were getting killed.

Talk of Marino playing in his rookie season had been stirred since he first hit camp. I remember screaming at the TV for Shula to put Marino in the DAMN game. It must have been the late 3rd or 4th qtr and Strock and Woodley were stinking the place up. Finally the anouncer had declared the game out of reach.

It was at this point - game 6 of our season that Marino was injected into the line-up and it was his for the duration of his career (except for injuries). Marino lit it up instantly. As it turns out that Oakland game was not out of reach and if I remember correctly one or two breaks and Marino would have upset Oakland.

Instantly Tony Nathan's game was dramatically improved. Moore and Harris were now being utilized on most every play.

Marino was stunning.

With all of those numbers in his rookie year, the truth was that the Dolphins were a team that went from being a Defensive jaugernaught to one that was quickly becoming a siv. Marino was and is the greatest QB ever - period!
 
Wow everyone knows Ryan Leaf had the best rookie season and best QB Career
 
Your points are well taken on needing to be a balanced team - we were not and we needed to be.

However, Miami ran the ball 43 times against the Bills in Marino's first start. His 2 INT's were on the 1st 2 possessions of the game. We missed 2 FG's in OT and the defense kept allowing the Bills to score and tie the game (and eventually win it).

Thanks for reminding me of the specifics. I knew I was fuming at that game but couldn't remember the details. We were playing a poor team, one we hadn't lost to at home since expansion days pre-Shula. The early passes by Marino seemed senseless given the disparity on the line of scrimmage, and sure enough we dug a big hole. A Woodley-type game plan would have produced a 13-10 win in a game like that.

The odds of losing when you outrush the opponent 43-23 are less than 1 in 15. No wonder I was livid.
 
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