RUDEbyallMEANS
Perennial All-Pro
What I meant was... Miami will most likely be getting a 1st and 3rd rounder for an "undrafted free agent"
My fault
My fault
Watch out for Seattle in the Ogun sweepstakes
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phinphanbill
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They'll tender him with the 1st and 3rd. If necessary they will negotiate with the team that is trying to sign him. Didn't Atlanta end up negotiating compensation with Buffalo last year?
hunter5nc1
Practice Squad
That's bullsh!t!!
BuffBillsMan90
is Clumpalicious!!
Peerless Price was designated as a "franchise" player not restricted FA
BuffBillsMan90
is Clumpalicious!!
Clump's Take on O-Gun
I believe Miami will tender him at the 1st rd tender of approx. $1.5 million. The 1st & 3rd tender will be about $1.9 million. At that level, I believe he'll remain in Miami because a team would have to give up a 1st and 3rd PLUS sign him to an outrageous contract. Many teams will shy away and I've read that the Redskins would have likely passed on signing Coles if he had been tendered at the 1st & 3rd level and may have turned their attention to Peerless Price. Hmmm.....maybe we could have gotten more for him in a trade??
However, at the 1st rd tender, I believe some teams in the lower third of the 1st rd will absolutely be interested. This will essentially allow other teams to do Miami's negotiating for them and give them the option of matching any offer sheet signed by O-Gun or taking the 1st rd pick and regained the cap space from the tender. Miami already has a great deal of cap space devoted to the defense and it would likely they would allow him to leave.
My prediction: Miami tenders him at the 1st rd level. Teams in the league will delay trying to sign him, thus limiting Miami's ability to shop in FA (amount of tender stays on cap until resolution of the the player's situation and Miami has a very tight cap, maybe even "cap jail"). Philly, Dallas, or Seattle will sign him to an offer sheet in late March or early April. Miami will not match the offer sheet. Miami will have 2 #1's and get back the tender amount to use for their rookie pool
I believe Miami will tender him at the 1st rd tender of approx. $1.5 million. The 1st & 3rd tender will be about $1.9 million. At that level, I believe he'll remain in Miami because a team would have to give up a 1st and 3rd PLUS sign him to an outrageous contract. Many teams will shy away and I've read that the Redskins would have likely passed on signing Coles if he had been tendered at the 1st & 3rd level and may have turned their attention to Peerless Price. Hmmm.....maybe we could have gotten more for him in a trade??
However, at the 1st rd tender, I believe some teams in the lower third of the 1st rd will absolutely be interested. This will essentially allow other teams to do Miami's negotiating for them and give them the option of matching any offer sheet signed by O-Gun or taking the 1st rd pick and regained the cap space from the tender. Miami already has a great deal of cap space devoted to the defense and it would likely they would allow him to leave.
My prediction: Miami tenders him at the 1st rd level. Teams in the league will delay trying to sign him, thus limiting Miami's ability to shop in FA (amount of tender stays on cap until resolution of the the player's situation and Miami has a very tight cap, maybe even "cap jail"). Philly, Dallas, or Seattle will sign him to an offer sheet in late March or early April. Miami will not match the offer sheet. Miami will have 2 #1's and get back the tender amount to use for their rookie pool
It seem Clump since Miami doesn't have a 2nd that they'd tender him at the 1st and 3rd, to gain a extra 3rd that they can trade up or down, plus the extra 1st to give them plenty of options. By only getting a 1st for Ogun, they limited they're options to one, trade down a 1st to the 2nd round. The only other option is package the 2 1st to move up in the 1st. All these situation will have an effect on the cap and Miami has to watch how they manage this. Luckily the Draftees are on a certain cap scenario and won't affect the rest of the cap as much as FA signings and redoing the people we already have, that's the real cap jail, if it will exist this year.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
A team can negotiate any deal they want after the tender has been placed, therefore, why not tender him with the first and third? If a team wants to sign him but doesn't want to give up a third they can negotiate a fourth or something of that nature but there is absolutely no reason that he should not be tendered with the highest amount available in order to achieve a maximum return on investment.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
There's plenty of reason and I understand what clumped is saying. The first reason is the 400k extra you have to pay in order to tender Ogun at the 1st and 3rd. Thats 400k more against the cap you have to count Ogun all the while he's looking for someone to give him a contract. And if nobody gives him the contract you just carry that 1.9 million cap figure for the year.
Now aside from that what clumped is saying is that if we tender a 1st AND 3rd, teams won't bother signing him. Why even bother negotiating if you know that no matter what if you sign him to a contract the Dolphins can force you to give them a 1st and 3rd, which is more than you want to give. I mean you have to realize here normally in free agency you just sign the guy, thats it. But in restricted free agency you have to give the guy a market value deal (which for Ogun is a lot) PLUS have to give up draft picks to do it. Not worth it.
On the other hand if teams knew they'd only have to just give up the first round pick they might be like, ok we probably won't get a better player than him in the first round anyway, and he'll be more expensive than a first round pick would be but then again he's gonna play awesome right out of the box instead of taking a while to learn.'
What Miami has to do to control the situation a bit, is convince teams with a first round selection lower than Miami would like, that they are going to have to make Ogun's contract REALLY poisoned so to speak to get Miami not to match it, because getting the 28th pick in the draft for Ogun just ain't worth it. That would give the advantage to a team entering the fray like say, Houston, who has the #10 pick. The trick then is getting Rosenhaus to negotiate with Houston more earnestly than the others by scaring away the lower pick teams from negotiating with Rosenhaus PERIOD. Why would they make a contract offer when Miami's on the phone telling them that even if you give Ogun a $12 million signing bonus, we're matching it. Rosenhaus could try and tell them Miami is bluffing, but they'll hardly believe him because they know he's just trying to get money for his client.
And its not like the team offering the contract has nothing to lose by offering an outrageous contract and seeing if Miami matches it. You do that and what if Miami DOESN'T? Then YOU'RE saddled with that huge contract. And if the team does, then just by signing that offer sheet you forego the cap space involved in the contract until the team matches the contract...which comes out to be about a week of free agency you're handcuffed from going after other players because you've got $3 million tied up in an offer sheet with a player you're not getting.
Plenty of ways for Miami to play hardball and see if they can't get the most value for Ogunleye. Probably the easiest would be to tell Rosenhaus straightup which picks they'd accept and which they wouldn't, and if he refuses to play ball, thats when Miami starts makin phone calls...
Now aside from that what clumped is saying is that if we tender a 1st AND 3rd, teams won't bother signing him. Why even bother negotiating if you know that no matter what if you sign him to a contract the Dolphins can force you to give them a 1st and 3rd, which is more than you want to give. I mean you have to realize here normally in free agency you just sign the guy, thats it. But in restricted free agency you have to give the guy a market value deal (which for Ogun is a lot) PLUS have to give up draft picks to do it. Not worth it.
On the other hand if teams knew they'd only have to just give up the first round pick they might be like, ok we probably won't get a better player than him in the first round anyway, and he'll be more expensive than a first round pick would be but then again he's gonna play awesome right out of the box instead of taking a while to learn.'
What Miami has to do to control the situation a bit, is convince teams with a first round selection lower than Miami would like, that they are going to have to make Ogun's contract REALLY poisoned so to speak to get Miami not to match it, because getting the 28th pick in the draft for Ogun just ain't worth it. That would give the advantage to a team entering the fray like say, Houston, who has the #10 pick. The trick then is getting Rosenhaus to negotiate with Houston more earnestly than the others by scaring away the lower pick teams from negotiating with Rosenhaus PERIOD. Why would they make a contract offer when Miami's on the phone telling them that even if you give Ogun a $12 million signing bonus, we're matching it. Rosenhaus could try and tell them Miami is bluffing, but they'll hardly believe him because they know he's just trying to get money for his client.
And its not like the team offering the contract has nothing to lose by offering an outrageous contract and seeing if Miami matches it. You do that and what if Miami DOESN'T? Then YOU'RE saddled with that huge contract. And if the team does, then just by signing that offer sheet you forego the cap space involved in the contract until the team matches the contract...which comes out to be about a week of free agency you're handcuffed from going after other players because you've got $3 million tied up in an offer sheet with a player you're not getting.
Plenty of ways for Miami to play hardball and see if they can't get the most value for Ogunleye. Probably the easiest would be to tell Rosenhaus straightup which picks they'd accept and which they wouldn't, and if he refuses to play ball, thats when Miami starts makin phone calls...
iceblizzard69
☠️ Banned ☠️
No teams have said they will give up a first and a third rounder for Ogunleye. I doubt anyone will give a first and a third for him, but someone might give a first.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
One thing you're all assuming here, and I believe wrongly so, is that the 'Fins don't want to retain Ogun. With this coaching staff it is more likely than not that the 'Fins genuinely want to keep the best pass rushing tandem in the game together for at least one more year and, therefore, will be tendering him with the highest amount possible.
It's ludicrous to believe that a team that basically passed on every major offensive upgrade in FA last year and did everything within its power to upgrade its already strong defense wouldn't want to retain the AFC's leading sacker for virtually nothing (relatively speaking.) If someone wanted him bad enough I'm sure the 'Fins would let him go but not JUST for a first round pick.
Come on guys, think about this a little bit because your making some really poor assumptions here based upon nothing but your own speculations.
It's ludicrous to believe that a team that basically passed on every major offensive upgrade in FA last year and did everything within its power to upgrade its already strong defense wouldn't want to retain the AFC's leading sacker for virtually nothing (relatively speaking.) If someone wanted him bad enough I'm sure the 'Fins would let him go but not JUST for a first round pick.
Come on guys, think about this a little bit because your making some really poor assumptions here based upon nothing but your own speculations.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
$2 million in 2004 is not "virtually nothing"
As I was saying, if the team wants to keep Ogunleye thats all well and good but if its Houston offering the 10th pick in the draft for him, the Phins might reconsider...would be hard pressed not to reconsider. However if its the Eagles that Rosenhaus is negotiating with, the Phins could/would stomp all over those negotiations by either negotiating in earnest with Ogun, or telling the Eagles no matter what they do, they'll match it.
As I was saying, if the team wants to keep Ogunleye thats all well and good but if its Houston offering the 10th pick in the draft for him, the Phins might reconsider...would be hard pressed not to reconsider. However if its the Eagles that Rosenhaus is negotiating with, the Phins could/would stomp all over those negotiations by either negotiating in earnest with Ogun, or telling the Eagles no matter what they do, they'll match it.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
Relatively speaking, for a player of his caibre, $2 million IS relatively nothing especially when we're only talking about a difference of approximately $400k between the top tender and the next step below that. On the open market Ogun will likely garner a signing bonus in excess of $10 million and a salary that is also in excess of that so yes, I stand by my original statement there.
Also, assuming the 'Fins were to get the #10 pick in the draft, they'd have to pay that guy more than $2 million this upcoming season in signing bonus and salary so it's not like that money isn't going to be spent one way or another.
Regardless of the tag that Miami puts on Ogun, if a team wants him they will negotiate with him. If they don't think he's worth a first and a third and they are willing to offer something a bit lower (i.e. a fourth or fifth instead of a third) then they will contact Miami in order to see if they're amnable to such an arrangement prior to opening contract talks with Ogun's agent.
You're missing the big picture here in that it's all about getting the best value possible for the talent you have when you have it and Ogun, right now, is worth at least a top 20 pick. If Seattle were to come along and grab him for JUST the #23 pick and nothing else, the 'Fins would be getting screwed.
If we tender Wally and no one takes him, he can walk next year and we will get nothing!
Take what you can get and be happy with it. Personally, if JT had not been double teamed like he was, Wally's numbers would not have been so great. Trace Armstrong had great numbers with JT, Rich Owens had above average numbers with JT, and now Wally had a MONSTER year with JT. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Take what you can get and be happy with it. Personally, if JT had not been double teamed like he was, Wally's numbers would not have been so great. Trace Armstrong had great numbers with JT, Rich Owens had above average numbers with JT, and now Wally had a MONSTER year with JT. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Gatorman
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Miami will tender a first and 3rd. Bank on it. They'll renegotiate and extend other contracts to make up the cap room they need for the other stuff. If they extend JT, they may be able to save 2 mil incap space just like that.
I have a feeling this is the year that wayne opens the signing bonus wallet.
Gator
I have a feeling this is the year that wayne opens the signing bonus wallet.
Gator
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
I agree, I think this is really the go for it all or bust year.
Those who want a few losing seasons while rebuilding may get their wish. I just hope we have a title to celebrate before that happens.
Oliver...