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I'm not sure we are in love with anybody really. It's so hard to tell what is truth and what is BS..

I have a question for the experts...

IF we drafted a kaepernick, how much could we even expect to shave off his stride and long delivery with him being as tall as he is and having the long arms like he does. I'm tending to think that we may not even be able to make a real significant difference.
Will be in a situation with him that we just have to deal with the delivery as is, or at least not expect drastic changes??

dalton is a guy I have to learn more about. All I noticed yesterday was he couldn't find a rythm and had a couple bad underthrows as well.
 
Short arms compare with height? Interesting point.

Another interesting point about Locker and Kaepernick playing football with baseball footwork. Didn't Bill Walsh say he grades QB's by looking at their feet?

Lastly, I wonder if Devlin arm strength and confidence in it could be increase via a NFL strength and condition program
 
Nate Solder - Terrific athlete, overrated tackle prospect... been saying that from day 1. If he doesn't learn how to play the tackle position soon, his a** will be back at tight end.

DeMarcus Love - Owned by Cameron Heyward in the Sugar Bowl. Owned by Ryan Kerrigan in the Senior Bowl. Owned by Sione Fua when they kicked him inside to guard. He's working his way down my draft board.

Allen Bailey - Has had one of the most quiet Senior Bowl weeks an athlete of his caliber has ever had in Mobile...especially to be as hyped as he is. He's just not very good at any one thing when it's time to buckle the chin strap.

Noel Devine - 2 fumbles yesterday.. and goes down from a slight breeze. I'll just pass on the kid.

Jake Locker - I will not stop believing this kid is going to make in the NFL until he's out of the league... I think he's going to surprise a lot of people once a good quarterback coach gets his hands on him and hones his accuracy from inside the pocket.

Colin Kaepernick - Didn't see any Von Miller's in the WAC did you?

Christian Ponder - Quick. Feet. In. The. Pocket. Accurate. Smart. Will probably make it in the NFL.





Rodney Hudson - Stud.

James Carpenter - Will somehow have an NFL career better than most of the offensive lineman in this class.

Leonard Beasterson - Beast.

Ryan Kerrigan - Stud.

Von Miller - Spawn from Hell.

Phil Taylor - Just not a lot of fun trying to block this freak athlete for his size.

Kendric Burney - He will eventually force offensive coordinators in the NFL to locate him and know where he is.... although they won't completely avoid him.

Da'Rel Scott - Solid speed/tandem back who will hit some home runs in the NFL.





More Homework Guys:


Chris White

Colin McCarthy
 
Interesting post, Slimm. But it's not like having long arms always dooms you to have a plodding release. Sam Bradford gets rid of it pretty quick despite having 34 3/8 inch arms.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Interesting post, Slimm. But it's not like having long arms always dooms you to have a plodding release. Sam Bradford gets rid of it pretty quick despite having 34 3/8 inch arms.
Click to expand...

Exactly... but look at Sam Bradford's footwork. His short stride with his feet is what compensates for his extremely long arms.

There has to be a compensatory mechanism... it's either arm length compensating for stride... or stride compensating for arm length.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Exactly... but look at Sam Bradford's footwork. His short stride with his feet is what compensates for his extremely long arms.

There has to be a compensatory mechanism... it's either arm length compensating for stride... or stride compensating for arm length.
Click to expand...

Ah. So if you were coaching the guy your strategy would be to work on shortening his stride and leave the release alone as an unavoidable consequence of having those long arms?
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Ah. So if you were coaching the guy your strategy would be to work on shortening his stride and leave the release alone as an unavoidable consequence of having those long arms?
Click to expand...

I have a 16 year old son who plays quarterback at the 6-A level, and that's exactly what I've been working with him on for 2 years... but he has to overstride somewhat in order to muster up enough arm strength for the deeper odd number routes on the route tree.


I wouldn't touch a single thing with Kaepernick's delivery other than trying to raise his elbow just a touch... other than that I wouldn't tinker with his accuracy... it's one of his biggest strengths right now.

The only thing he really needs attention on in my opinion is the footwork and sharpening up his drops... his mechanics still break down at the top of his drop when he senses pressure..

I still think he's a mid round quarterback prospect.
 
love Miller at #15,but he wont be there.............:(
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Locker didn't play 4 years in a pro style offense either... he's only been playing in Sark's pro style system for 2 seasons.


I thought Mike Mayock made a great point about Locker's footwork, and it's the same reason a guy like Kaepernick is as raw as he is despite starting for 4 years at Nevada... they're both baseball prospects, who have dedicated a significant amount of time to the different techniques and footwork required to play certain positions in baseball.

Mayock made note of Jake Locker's footwork at the very top of his drop... his feet are too close together at the top of his drop, he lets his lead foot get too close to his back foot.

This causes him to have to overstride when he releases the football in order to compensate.... which leads to high, errant passes.

Jake Locker's hitch at the top of his drop right before he releases the football is the footwork ingrained in him from playing outfield in baseball... it's a curl-hop, which is what outfielders use when fielding a ball in the outfield to make a long throw back to bases in order to sting a runner. Locker only recently decided that he was going to dedicate 100% to football and leave baseball behind.

Kaepernick has a pitcher's motion in his delivery from being a baseball pitcher, and it's necessary for him to have that also because his arms are so long (almost 34"). Kaepernick is naturally a more accurate thrower than Locker... However, what also helps Kaepernick be more accurate is the fact that he doesn't have this "curl hop" footwork at the top of his drop... there's no way he could get by with having to overstride with 34" arms.

You see... everything that happens above the waist with a quarterback, is a direct result of what's going on with the feet... always has, always will.

Overstriding with your feet causes you to have a longer wind-up in your delivery... Long arms cause you to have more of a wind-up in your deliver. A quarterback can get away with overstriding more if he has short arms to off-set the difference.

The best quarterbacks in NFL history who were all in the 6'3"- 6'4"+, all had short arms no longer than 32" in most cases... anytime you can find a quarterback with good height like that, but with short arms, he's naturally going to have an exceptionally quick delivery.

Of all the Senior quarterbacks in this draft who have been measured so far, which one fits this profile the best?

Pat Devlin.. who's 6'3", but only has 31 1/2" arms.... it's no coincidence that Devlin also has the quickest, cleanest, most compact delivery in this class of quarterbacks.

It's a very interesting study.... Look at the best 6'4" or so quarterbacks currently in the NFL (Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, etc.) and look at their arm lengths compared to their height... they all have short arms to be that tall.
Click to expand...

Well stated.

You ever looked at Brandon Weeden? It's impressive to me that of all the "baseball" guys, he should be THE most affected by his time as a baseball pitcher (because he went into a professional career directly after high school and only came back to football like 6 years later), and yet I find his release and footwork to be very natural from a football sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkLIET5uvA

I think one point to be made here though is that baseball involvement is not something that ever has precluded great quarterbacks from being great quarterbacks. As we all know Dan Marino and John Elway were excellent baseball players.

To me, it either DOES affect you, or it doesn't. And I'm not so sure that Jake Locker would be more accurate even if his footwork changed a little.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I have a 16 year old son who plays quarterback at the 6-A level, and that's exactly I've been working with him on for 2 years... but he has to overstride somewhat in order to muster up enough arm strength for the deeper odd number routes on the route tree.


I wouldn't touch a single thing with Kaepernick's delivery other than trying to raise his elbow just a touch... other than that I wouldn't tinker with his accuracy... it's one of his biggest strengths right now.

The only thing he really needs attention on in my opinion is the footwork and sharpening up his drops... his mechanics still break down at the top of his drop when he senses pressure..

I still think he's a mid round quarterback prospect.
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That's the other point I wanted to make about Kaepernick and Locker. They have the footwork and the releases they do, at this point, because they need them. If you changed them, they might lose their ability. I agree that if you change Kaepernick's mechanics, he's probably going to lose that fast ball of his and maybe his accuracy.

With Colin it's purely a translation issue. The accuracy is there, the arm strength is there certainly, the touch is there. He does NOT throw a consistently clean ball though with that motion, a good number of his throws are pushed in at high velocity but are coming apart at the seams...and the other worry is that with such a long, orbital release, as Mayock says he needs a pretty clean view and a pretty clean zone around him to get the ball off. In the WAC, he could create that zone of safety because he's a fast guy. In the NFL, there are a lot more Von Millers waiting for you if you try and get away with that.
 
ckparrothead said:
Well stated.

You ever looked at Brandon Weeden? It's impressive to me that of all the "baseball" guys, he should be THE most affected by his time as a baseball pitcher (because he went into a professional career directly after high school and only came back to football like 6 years later), and yet I find his release and footwork to be very natural from a football sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkLIET5uvA

I think one point to be made here though is that baseball involvement is not something that ever has precluded great quarterbacks from being great quarterbacks. As we all know Dan Marino and John Elway were excellent baseball players.

To me, it either DOES affect you, or it doesn't. And I'm not so sure that Jake Locker would be more accurate even if his footwork changed a little.
Click to expand...


I agree... Listen, I don't think Jake Locker will ever be a 65% passer in the NFL, but he can be more accurate than he is now... he'll have to be in order to stick in the NFL as a starter. There's no way around it.

Weeden's footwork is on another level... he's got the feet of a welterweight boxer in the pocket.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I agree... Listen, I don't think Jake Locker will ever be a 65% passer in the NFL, but he can be more accurate than he is now... he'll have to be in order to stick in the NFL as a starter. There's no way around it.

Weeden's footwork is on another level... he's got the feet of a welterweight boxer in the pocket.
Click to expand...

I told Weeden flat out when I talked to him that I'm not arrogant enough to think I could or should influence his decision but with Andrew Luck staying in school, if he came out, he'd be the most complete quarterback prospect in the Draft.

When he went back to school, that pulled one hell of a safety net out from under Miami's draft plans. You wouldn't have needed to trade up or worry about positioning in order to acquire a 28 year old in the Draft. But he would have been the quickest of all the QBs in this Draft to look sharp and operate an NFL offense like a franchise quarterback. Shame.
 
Tony Romo is the only QB i know of in the past 30 that has change his release and went on to start and play well in the NFL.So If your favorite draftnik is trying to sell you on a QB that needs to change his release, then find a new one!!

A guy's release is like buying a used car...... your buying it " as is ".Colin Kaepernick will be lucky to hear his name before the 5th round.
 
On the other hand, almost every quarterback I've ever heard of coming out of college has had his release tinkered with and/or "worked on" by quarterback coaches. I guess it all depends on what you consider the difference between "tinkering", "working on", or "changing" is.
 
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