We could still land luck with the 4th or 5th pick

[Ilovemyfins4eva]

their is something in the draft forum, it was written in august, one person said in the scouting report of Andrew luck, something along the lines of andrew luck having the same kind of franchise changing impact that lebron james had when he came into the league.

as much as a lebron along with most people, ill that kind of talent any day of the week. obviously i would hope luck would win the big game though.

 

[Clipse]

And I really love the argument that no QB is a lock. No NFL player is a lock! Look at Robert Gallery or Vernon Gholston. Does this mean we just shouldn't draft anyone?

Seriously. I never realized that QB's weren't locks but OL, WR's, RB's, DE's, DT's, LB's, CB's and safeties were. Who knew.

 

[Ilovemyfins4eva]

And I really love the argument that no QB is a lock. No NFL player is a lock! Look at Robert Gallery or Vernon Gholston. Does this mean we just shouldn't draft anyone?

well i wish over the past decade, considering whom we have drafted for the most part, we didnt draft anyone. we would have saved money at least.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I stand corrected on the Walker trade. However as you mention, two of those were conditionals. Nobody has traded 3 1st straight up.

You can argue as much as you want for the value of QBs, but the truth of the matter is that you don't *have* to give up your entire draft to get a quality QB, and most importantly, giving up an entire draft class cripples a team tremendously. Pray tell, how *did* Minnesota do after that wonderful trade?

Horribly. But that's because they didn't know how to use Walker and because a running back has never been worth that much. Not then. Not before then. And certainly not now. The Vikings got caught thinking they were a running back away and decided to ante in for the most monstrous physical specimen around. Well, it turns out a running back is only worth so much to your team's bottom line and the rest of their team wasn't as good as they thought it was. But I'll give any team who's willing to risk looking stupid for a chance at greatness some credit. At least they had the balls to play a hand.

Oh, I know. The problem was that they didn't have the almighty QB. Surely New England tanked in 2008, right, by missing Brady for the season? Wait... they didn't! Neither the '93 Dolphins. That's off the cuff, I'm sure I can find plenty more examples.

Are you trying to argue that having an elite quarterback isn't that important? Because not only is such an argument folly but even the examples you bring up are poor.

Yes, New England went 11-5 in 2008. But do you remember their record in 2007? Because I do. They were 16 and ****in' 0.

The 1993 Miami Dolphins went 9-7, sure. But they were winning the game that would send them to 4-1 when Marino went down, which means they finished the season 5-6. The 1992 Miami Dolphins, by the way, went 11-5 and made it to the AFC Championship Game.

So don't play this "the quarterback doesn't matter as much as everyone says it does" game. Because that's not a game you're ever going to win. Especially in this day and age.

Look, I'm not arguing Luck isn't a great QB (quite frankly I don't follow college football). But I remember the hype of previous years with other passers. I've already stated them. Brohm was going to be Peyton Manning! And then of course he wasn't.

Well, start. Watch the guy play and get back to me. Sure, there were morons out there proclaiming that Brohm was going to be the next Manning. There are *******s saying that about guys every year. But speaking as someone who watched Brohm pretty closely when he was at Louisville, I can tell you the guy was nowhere near the prospect Manning was. I had the guy as like a fourth rounder, as did a lot of other people.

What happens if Luck gets injured? If he tanks this year? If he comes into the NFL and his hands are too small, or he can't master the playbook, or he's asked to carry a lousy team crippled with a lack of youth (because his team traded an entire draft or two) and he fails? What then? Will you be saying "give him time"?

What if what if what if. The only sure thing is that if you never try and get a franchise quarterback, you'll never get one, the one in a million chances like Tom Brady notwithstanding.

There's no sure thing in the NFL. And only a sure thing would be worth the kind of trade you're advocating for.

There's no such thing as a sure thing. Period. Take your shot and live with the consequences. The teams that had taken theirs and busted out weren't crippled forever like some seem to think they were. The Chargers fired and missed on Leaf but that didn't stop their next GM from taking Drew Brees high in the draft and then swinging the trade that landed them Philip Rivers.

 

[hoops]

wait a minute...you don't follow college football yet i'm supposed to give your take weight??? when you say the guys becoming overhyped yet you've never even seen him play??? this convo is over

talk about being in the dark...you my friend are in the vast minority in nfl circles of people who think andrew luck is not the best qb prospect to come out in the last decade...the vast minority...

i guess you can't justify trading 3 1st rounders and a player or whatever it takes for him when you've never even seen him play...broaden your football horizons

 

[armyphin]

For historical reference

Entering the 1998 draft, Manning and Leaf were widely considered to be the two best players available,[SUP][3][/SUP] and scouts and analysts debated whether Leaf or Manning should be selected first.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] Many advocated for Leaf[SUP][8][/SUP] and his stronger arm, while others saw Manning as the more mature player. The differences in potential between the two seemed small enough, however, that most observers expected it would not greatly matter whether a team selected Manning or Leaf,[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] as either quarterback would greatly benefit the team that selected him.[SUP][7][/SUP] The San Diego Chargers had the third pick of the draft, but traded two first round picks, a second round pick, and three time Pro Bowler Eric Metcalf to the Arizona Cardinals to move up one spot and guarantee that the team would get one of the two quarterbacks.[SUP][9]
[/SUP]On draft day Manning was selected first by the Indianapolis Colts and Leaf was selected second by the Chargers.[SUP][9][/SUP] The Chargers signed Leaf to a four-year contract worth $31.25 million, including a guaranteed $11.25 million signing bonus. It was at the time, the largest signing bonus ever paid to a rookie.[SUP][10][/SUP] Leaf stated on draft day, "I'm looking forward to a 15-year career, a couple of trips to the Super Bowl and a parade through downtown San Diego".[SUP][8][/SUP]

That didn't end well for the Chargers.

 

[moonman]

For historical reference



That didn't end well for the Chargers.

True. Now the Chargers are in the dumps with no hope at anything. I'm starting to agree with you guys. Let's draft another lineman.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

For historical reference



That didn't end well for the Chargers.

Sure it did. Because they didn't stop trying. Failing with Leaf didn't stop them from taking Brees. When Brees struggled his first few years, that didn't stop them for swinging the trade that landed them Philip Rivers.

 

[HarryBagpipe]

Sure it did. Because they didn't stop trying. Failing with Leaf didn't stop them from taking Brees. When Brees struggled his first few years, that didn't stop them for swinging the trade that landed them Philip Rivers.

truth

 

[dolphone]

So you pulled out some rinky dink Bills website nobody's ever heard, that homered it up AFTER the draft about Brian Brohm, who was on the Bills at the time. And you used that to make a point? Cool.

ffs. People forget so easily.

Here's Pro Football Reference:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I wouldn't have much confidence that Matt Ryan is in line to be a substantially better pro than Brian Brohm.
[/FONT]

Here's Chris Landry (NFL Scout, from TV):

Brian Brohm is definitely the odds on guy for the No. 1 overall selection in 2007.

CBS Sports:

Compares To: DREW BREES-New Orleans

Gil Brandt:

Brian was born to be a quarterback. His dad was a quarterback. His brother was a quarterback. His mother probably was a quarterback for a female football team.

Mel Kiper:

Big Mel has Brohm as the overall Number One senior prospect (...) He compares him to Jim Kelly

Even a blog:

Brohm reminds me a little of Brett Favre. He has a gunslingers mentality and is fearless on the field. I think, depending on the teams needs picking first in the draft, he could be the #1 overall pick, but AT LEAST the first QB off the board. I believe he has more upside then Brady Quinn and will be a better pro when it is all said and done

That's 5 minutes of googling. But they were also Bills fans, right?

 

[AphexPhin]

the COlts would be absolute fools to pass up on drafting Luck(especially considering Manning's future is uncertain). WHoever is getting the number one pick will definitely draft him.

 

[finomenal]

yea but the vikings wasted first round money on ponder and so did the bengals with dalton, they have to at least move forward with them and not waste another first round pick on a QB

First round money isn't what it used to be. The Vikings could still draft Luck without killing their cap. The Panthers signed Cam to a 4 year, $22M deal, and that's #1 pick money. The Vikings signed Ponder to a 4 year, $11M deal.

 

[dolphone]

Did you comprehend what this guy is saying? You may want to re-read it and FYI. Brian Brohm was not a highly graded and sought after QB in the 2008 draft. You don't need to read The Sporting News to see that.

He *was* the consensus #1 overall pick for the 2007 draft, coming out at the same time you want Luck to come out. He was hyped as the next big thing, just as Luck has been.

 

[dolphone]

And I really love the argument that no QB is a lock. No NFL player is a lock! Look at Robert Gallery or Vernon Gholston. Does this mean we just shouldn't draft anyone?

No, what it means is you don't give up an entire draft (or three number ones, for that matter) for something that isn't a lock. If you're there you draft him, if you're not you don't give up your entire short term future for him.

 

[hoops]

i'll raise my hand and say i was a big brian brohm guy...but its still not close brohm to andrew luck as a prospect...