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We Shall See

DKphin

DKphin

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I don't want to hate on Flores, but how many coaches have we had since Shula retired? Let me save you the trouble, the answer is 10. Here is the list:

Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannstedt
Jim Bates
Nick Saban
Cam Cameron
Tony Sparano
Todd Bowles
Joe Philbin
Dan Campbell
Adam Gase

Out of those ten coaches, every one to a man(except maybe Bates and Campbell), all I heard is that they were going to turn the franchise around and our future is secure because this is the one. I hope this time is different, but I am not holding my breath. How many coaches that coached under Bill Belichick have actually gone on to be a successful NFL HC. I can't think of one. You would think one of these subordinates would have found success coming from the most successful franchise in recent history. Makes you wonder if there might be something else going on in NE than great coaching? But I digress.

We all want Flores to do well, but can we stop the fawning until we actually see his competence in a game.
 
DKphin said:
I don't want to hate on Flores, but how many coaches have we had since Shula retired? Let me save you the trouble, the answer is 10. Here is the list:

Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannstedt
Jim Bates
Nick Saban
Cam Cameron
Tony Sparano
Todd Bowles
Joe Philbin
Dan Campbell
Adam Gase

Out of those ten coaches, every one to a man(except maybe Bates and Campbell), all I heard is that they were going to turn the franchise around and our future is secure because this is the one. I hope this time is different, but I am not holding my breath. How many coaches that coached under Bill Belichick have actually gone on to be a successful NFL HC. I can't think of one. You would think one of these subordinates would have found success coming from the most successful franchise in recent history. Makes you wonder if there might be something else going on in NE than great coaching? But I digress.

We all want Flores to do well, but can we stop the fawning until we actually see his competence in a game.
Click to expand...
No. You wallow away in misery I am excited and optimistic.
 
DKphin said:
I don't want to hate on Flores, but how many coaches have we had since Shula retired? Let me save you the trouble, the answer is 10. Here is the list:

Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannstedt
Jim Bates
Nick Saban
Cam Cameron
Tony Sparano
Todd Bowles
Joe Philbin
Dan Campbell
Adam Gase

Out of those ten coaches, every one to a man(except maybe Bates and Campbell), all I heard is that they were going to turn the franchise around and our future is secure because this is the one. I hope this time is different, but I am not holding my breath. How many coaches that coached under Bill Belichick have actually gone on to be a successful NFL HC. I can't think of one. You would think one of these subordinates would have found success coming from the most successful franchise in recent history. Makes you wonder if there might be something else going on in NE than great coaching? But I digress.

We all want Flores to do well, but can we stop the fawning until we actually see his competence in a game.
Click to expand...

I think we all get it DK. Almost all of us have lived through those 10 coaches. BUT, it has to end sometime. Every team has gone through NFL purgatory and, at some point, come out the other side. We can either anticipate failure AGAIN or root for success. Seems like most of us are rooting for success. New guy. New time. New situation. I chose to be optimistic until proven otherwise.
 
If we can't be happy during the off season then when? We all know what happens once the season starts. Let us have some fun now.

p.s. Most likely he won't won many games his first year as we're tanking
 
After decades of losing, I can see why some fans aren't overly excited, but lets give this young coach the benefit of the doubt at making us great.
 
I'm not fawning. He seems like a great guy. But that doesn't mean he will be a great HC. He seems measured and not full of bluster. He was a no hype selection, he gained a little bit after the SB however. I hope he is the right guy and he is successful.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
I think we all get it DK. Almost all of us have lived through those 10 coaches. BUT, it has to end sometime. Every team has gone through NFL purgatory and, at some point, come out the other side. We can either anticipate failure AGAIN or root for success. Seems like most of us are rooting for success. New guy. New time. New situation. I chose to be optimistic until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
Actually, it doesn't have to end sometime. Ross keeps rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and expects that action to save the boat. I wish Flores great success. His defense in the Super Bowl was impressive. But my expectation is the same as it was for Gates. More of the same: 2 years of tanking followed by years of mind-numbing mediocrity. I don't know when people are going to get it. It isn't the coaching. It's the entire organization from the owner on down. Over a decade of bad drafts on the GMs and scouting departments. Complete failure to understand that you have to draft a QB until you actually get one. Inability to build an offensive line across multiple coaches. And now we hire a coach from the BB coaching tree where there has not been a single success other than BB.

One definition of insanity is to keep on doing the same things and to expect that it will have different results. I do not expect to see change until we have a different owner.
 
I’ve always been a wait and see guy. Not gonna change.

Houston is doing a good job with BOB (he was a Patriots coach) now that they actually have a good qb. Miami needs a good qb.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
I think we all get it DK. Almost all of us have lived through those 10 coaches. BUT, it has to end sometime. Every team has gone through NFL purgatory and, at some point, come out the other side. We can either anticipate failure AGAIN or root for success. Seems like most of us are rooting for success. New guy. New time. New situation. I chose to be optimistic until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. If you keep stringing along employees that keep making poor decisions the results will be the same. One can hope for a positive change but usually past behavior is a good indicator of the future.
 
z926538 said:
Actually, it doesn't have to end sometime. Ross keeps rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and expects that action to save the boat. I wish Flores great success. His defense in the Super Bowl was impressive. But my expectation is the same as it was for Gates. More of the same: 2 years of tanking followed by years of mind-numbing mediocrity. I don't know when people are going to get it. It isn't the coaching. It's the entire organization from the owner on down. Over a decade of bad drafts on the GMs and scouting departments. Complete failure to understand that you have to draft a QB until you actually get one. Inability to build an offensive line across multiple coaches. And now we hire a coach from the BB coaching tree where there has not been a single success other than BB.

One definition of insanity is to keep on doing the same things and to expect that it will have different results. I do not expect to see change until we have a different owner.
Click to expand...

I know I'm putting (the wrong) words i your mouth, but I'm making a point. Clearly you didn't want Ross to keep Gase/Burke/Tannehill/et al because trying a new HC would be 'insanity.' You want success just as we do. Given the reality there WILL BE NO NEW OWNER, the only option is trying new HCs. That's what all struggling franchises do. Eventually, they land a BB or Landry, or top HC. Even long term owners can go through a number of HCs before they 'hit.' That is my obsession - luck. Particularly when selecting virgin HCs. Keep trying. The option is, umm, status quo.

Will Flores may not be the guy. But having FistPump through 2019 because doing the same thing (changing HCs) is insanity isn't the answer either.
 
I have no idea if this will work out or not. It's going to be aggravating at first though I can tell you that. Fans and the media will be too stupid to realize we are rebuilding and the whole, "see Belechick's coaching tree sucks" narrative will be in full swing during 2019. It will happen here too, I'd bet my life on it. In the offseason everybody will be smart enough to realize it's year 1 of a rebuild and the expectations SHOULD be LOW. However, on game days when beers start flowing and we lose "Flores Sucks" and "Fire Flores" threads will flood the main forum. Everybody will forget how badly we supposedly WANT to rebuild.

I expect this will not be a Sparano or Gase playoffs year 1 than downhill scenario. There's a better chance we NEVER have a winning season under Flores and he is fired than that happening. We should expect it and be patient, but we won't.
 
DolfanISS said:
I have no idea if this will work out or not. It's going to be aggravating at first though I can tell you that. Fans and the media will be too stupid to realize we are rebuilding and the whole, "see Belechick's coaching tree sucks" narrative will be in full swing during 2019. It will happen here too, I'd bet my life on it. In the offseason everybody will be smart enough to realize it's year 1 of a rebuild and the expectations SHOULD be LOW. However, on game days when beers start flowing and we lose "Flores Sucks" and "Fire Flores" threads will flood the main forum. Everybody will forget how badly we supposedly WANT to rebuild.

I expect this will not be a Sparano or Gase playoffs year 1 than downhill scenario. There's a better chance we NEVER have a winning season under Flores and he is fired than that happening. We should expect it and be patient, but we won't.
Click to expand...

There WILL BE tell-tale signs fans can see early.
A milktoast D won't be tolerated long. I won't blame him or the DC for a poor pass rush or a leaky secondary, but I WILL blame them for a passive D strategy. If rumors of a tank are legit, aggressiveness is the way to go.
Fans deservedly expect gameplans. Those better be evident. No, not successful gameplans that hold NE to 13 points, but show fans an attempt to cover Gronk or stop Elliott. Make an effort to get Wilson open or Drake on a LB.
IMHO, those type of things, whether successful or not, will give a hint if Flores and staff have some natural talent. In spite of that, W/L is a different animal, particularly if 'the tank' is real. And I expect 'evaluations' before the 1st game is over. That's fan human nature. Matter of fact, he'll be judged on his 1st 3 personnel moves, ad game 1 on the final score.
 
DKphin said:
I don't want to hate on Flores, but how many coaches have we had since Shula retired? Let me save you the trouble, the answer is 10. Here is the list:

Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannstedt
Jim Bates
Nick Saban
Cam Cameron
Tony Sparano
Todd Bowles
Joe Philbin
Dan Campbell
Adam Gase

Out of those ten coaches, every one to a man(except maybe Bates and Campbell), all I heard is that they were going to turn the franchise around and our future is secure because this is the one. I hope this time is different, but I am not holding my breath. How many coaches that coached under Bill Belichick have actually gone on to be a successful NFL HC. I can't think of one. You would think one of these subordinates would have found success coming from the most successful franchise in recent history. Makes you wonder if there might be something else going on in NE than great coaching? But I digress.

We all want Flores to do well, but can we stop the fawning until we actually see his competence in a game.
Click to expand...

I’d rather not be miserable all the time, actually.
 
Ross gets a lot of heat and has made some bad front office/coaching hires but what owner hasn't? People also think Robert Kraft is some sort of football genius as well but he could have hired Belichick in 1997 (who followed Parcels to NY) but instead went with Pete Carroll (49ers DC) who flamed out after three years in his second stint as a NFL HC. He couldn't make it work with Bill Parcels or Pete Carroll. He was very fortunate (lucky) that BB worked out in his second stint as HC. Belichick was VERY LUCKY that someone talked him into drafting a QB in THE 6TH ROUND after 32 other teams passed on him multiple times.

You don't get that kind of luck very often.

That being said, anyone notice a similarity between Flores and Belichick's coaching paths? Almost the same versatility other than Flores time in the scouting department.

Flores


BB
 
DKphin said:
but can we stop the fawning until we actually see his competence in a game.
Click to expand...
Nope! That would require waiting until at least September and with the current outlook of how bad the '19 season will be, it might require waiting longer than that. Therefore, the fawning is in full swing now, being how Brian Flores is currently undefeated. :chuckle:
 
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