What would you do as GM?

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I think Dudeman's points are very valid. What kind of scouting could he have done to prove that Feeley was the right choice and at #2. Given that we could have kept Griese who is at least as talented as Feeley..why were we in such a rush to get someone like Feeley. OF course this is a "if we knew what we knew now game". As fans we can look back to see if things could have been different..or maybe what we as wanna be GM's would have done.

Dudeman's main flaw in his arguement is that he wanted the Dolphins to trade for quarterbacks that were unavailiable unless Miami gave up much more than they gave up for Feeley.

 

[Austin Tatious]

This is a fair thread and nothing wrong with it.

The Feeley trade was an unabashed disaster, period. There was no basis there for giving up a 2nd there. That shows that Spielman just doesn't understand the process and frankly doesn't have the intellectual horsepower to (a) properly value a trade, and (b) realize how much was at stake there. His career will always be tarnished by that ridiculous blunder. Frankly, this whole situation speaks for itself.

As for what we should have done, one name that comes to mind is Kerry Collins. He became available as a free agent promptly after Spielman made the collossal Feeley blunder. And if Spielman was going to give up a premium pick in the second round, if anyone, he should have snagged Volek. Volek was on the list that Spielman evaluated. This was just stupid stupid stupid. I was sick about it at the time, and Spielman will likely never be trusted with a GM position again because of his fatal lack of smarts. He was probably not smart enough to realize that his career ceiling was on the line.

As for Lamar Gordon, he is an upright runner who is injury prone. Spielman didn't have the capacity to understand that Samuel Morris is actually a far better player. This one might be harder to criticize because Ricky left the team high and dry (mostly high). But, still, Morris proved to be a strong between the tackles runner. And might I add, what if Ricky got hurt? What was our contingency there? Even if Morris had injury problems, they were more temporary such that the Gordon trade was laughinstock.

These two moves made Miami a laughinstock. And I can't ever forgive anyone who makes my team a laughingstock. I prefer and expect management that is smarter.

When you trade a 2 for Feeley and a 3 for Gordon, and both of these guys will be in our rear view mirror very promptly, the poor results speak for themselves.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

This is a fair thread and nothing wrong with it.

The Feeley trade was an unabashed disaster, period. There was no basis there for giving up a 2nd there. That shows that Spielman just doesn't understand the process and frankly doesn't have the intellectual horsepower to (a) properly value a trade, and (b) realize how much was at stake there. His career will always be tarnished by that ridiculous blunder. Frankly, this whole situation speaks for itself.

As for what we should have done, one name that comes to mind is Kerry Collins. He became available as a free agent promptly after Spielman made the collossal Feeley blunder. And if Spielman was going to give up a premium pick in the second round, if anyone, he should have snagged Volek. Volek was on the list that Spielman evaluated. This was just stupid stupid stupid. I was sick about it at the time, and Spielman will likely never be trusted with a GM position again because of his fatal lack of smarts. He was probably not smart enough to realize that his career ceiling was on the line.

As for Lamar Gordon, he is an upright runner who is injury prone. Spielman didn't have the capacity to understand that Samuel Morris is actually a far better player. This one might be harder to criticize because Ricky left the team high and dry (mostly high). But, still, Morris proved to be a strong between the tackles runner. And might I add, what if Ricky got hurt? What was our contingency there? Even if Morris had injury problems, they were more temporary such that the Gordon trade was laughinstock.

These two moves made Miami a laughinstock. And I can't ever forgive anyone who makes my team a laughingstock. I prefer and expect management that is smarter.

When you trade a 2 for Feeley and a 3 for Gordon, and both of these guys will be in our rear view mirror very promptly, the poor results speak for themselves.

Main flaws in your arguements.

1) Volek was not available. You cannot just trade for a player. This is not Madden

2) Collins was available much later. Problem with Griese last year. Isn't really that good of a qb anyways

 

[Frank B]

If I was in Spielman's position, I never would have agreed to take the job without full control over all football operations. Spielman was handcuffed by Wannstedt's coaching decisions.

1. Spielman knows that he needs to find a QB and Fiedler is given permission to seek a trade or be released. Spielman goes out and gets Feeley, but his plan is derailed because Wannstedt talks his boy Fiedler into coming back. Did Spielman overpay? Yes, a 2nd rounder was too much to give up, but it was made worse by having Feeley come in not knowing the offense and splitting much needed reps with Fiedler.

2. We need a new RT and Spielman trades a 4th rounder to move up and draft Vernon Carey. Did he need to waste that 4th rounder? Under normal circumstances, he could play it calm and cool and take the best player available, but in order to save Wannstedt's job, Spielman knew he had to upgrade the line at all costs. In addition, what good is a talented player if he rots on the bench because your offensive line coach is too stupid to put him in the lineup.

3. Spielman panics trying to find a replacement for Ricky. While Lamar Gordon showed some promise in the Rams system, he is an absolutely horrible fit for our system. This was a scouting mistake on Spielman's part. We didn't get the big, bruising back we wanted, we got a guy who likes to dance in the backfield. There were other backs available that better fit the style of runner we were seeking...Reuben Droughns, Mike Anderson, and William Green come to mind. Why did Spielman panic? He needed an immediate replacement because Wannstedt was trying desperately to make one last playoff run.

I don't think Spielman is as bad of a GM as he is being made out to be. I think his limited authority doomed him more than some of the decisions he made. Wannstedt failed at GM and coach for years. Spielman had one year under less than ideal circumstance to turn over the roster and bring in quality depth.

 

[Dphins4me]

First and foremost...I am not defending Rick Spielman. But so many people have ridiculed him for the Gordon, Feeley pickups...I thought it would be a good idea to see what many of you monday morning GM's would have done, given the circumstances Spielman had last year. So..let er rip. We'll take a look at the scenarios presented and decide which would have succeeded and which would only have worked in Madden. Remember to back any answer up with evidence...dont just say..I would have traded for Peyton Manning cuz hez da bomb.

RS biggest mistake was not backing up Ricky with a back similar to RW.

He backed up a 225 LB between the tackle RB with a 3rd type back.

That move forced the Gordon trade.

The AJ was equal value when you factor in the years wait for the pick.

 

[islandah]

yes.That's the way it is in sports.You can't put yourself ahead the organization.

Right. Tell that to TO or any other player that holds out.

 

[BrazForPhins]

Right. Tell that to TO or any other player that holds out.

Thats why I dislike TO and these kind of players, and would not welcome them to my team if I was a GM. TO is holding out although philly is not seeming to easily give him the money..btw TO is not such a great example because if I'm not mistaken hes a "me person" but is a TOP 3 WR though not even the 10th highest paid WR in the league (I'd aprecciate if someone can give this exactly info)

but back to my point, some people would accept guys that put themselves ahead the org, and like me some people wouldnt. I think Wanny did it and thats why I regret he had put his hans at the phins one more season than he should (that's if he even deserved to coach the phins half season :D )

 

[Austin Tatious]

Main flaws in your arguements.

1) Volek was not available. You cannot just trade for a player. This is not Madden

2) Collins was available much later. Problem with Griese last year. Isn't really that good of a qb anyways

Collins was in fact available just a few weeks later. He then had a far better season than Feeley. The point is Spielman panicked.

As for Volek, Spielman himelf admitted he evaluated Volek and others and determined in his infinite wisdom that Feeley was the boy he targeted. If you offer Tenn a 2nd round pick for Volek, there is a good chance the Titans would have taken that at the time.

Besides, what is your point? That these are acceptable moves?

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Collins was in fact available just a few weeks later. He then had a far better season than Feeley. The point is Spielman panicked.

As for Volek, Spielman himelf admitted he evaluated Volek and others and determined in his infinite wisdom that Feeley was the boy he targeted. If you offer Tenn a 2nd round pick for Volek, there is a good chance the Titans would have taken that at the time.

Besides, what is your point? That these are acceptable moves?

Weeks later. That is the point. It is totally silly to even consider Collins.

Of course he evaluated Volek. He evaluated a lot of quarterbacks. It would of cost more than a 2nd round pick for Volek.

 

[LarryFinFan]

The moves for Feeley and Gordon were fueled by panic in my estimation....You simply cannot give up a 2nd rounder for a guy who barely played in college and had like 3 or 4 games experience in the NFL....STUPID!!!!!!...A 3rd for Gordon was not as bad but was still for an unproven guy with little experience...I was saying the same thing when the deals were made so this is not hindsight. If I were the GM I would have never gone after Feeley to begin with...I may have offered a 5th for Gordon but not until I exhausted all other possibilities to find someone for a lot less...

Spielman and Wanny made these moves because they were more concerned with keeping their jobs than the future of the organization...and because they are lousy at evaluating talent...Old story...Especially for Wanny...(See history of Wanny in CHI).

These guys were under a lot of pressure to win...With losing Ricky...and having the brutal Miami media breathing down their necks...They collapsed under the pressure and made some bad decisions...I highly doubt that you will see Saban doing that.

I agree that the moves were made out of desperation, but the Gordon move was made when it WAS desparation time...Morris, to that point hadn't proven anything in preseason and minicamps...Minor was never and will never be an every down back...our O was centered around an inside running game and it was the beginning of preseason...you can't just change the offense that your people have been working on for 4 months. Gordon had played well as a backup to Marshal and was available because of Stephen Jackson being there. Who else was available at that time ? The Feeley move was not a desperation move. He was on the rise thruout the league. He had played well for the Eagles. You always, repeat always overpay for a QB...Had he come in and played as well as Ears, you and I would be singing a different tune about the trade...but sometimes these things don't work out...look at Hotlanta and the Price experiment...Who would have thought that was a bad move when it was made ?? At any rate, RS made the moves based on who was available and what was needed....McNair was very questionable as to whether he was even coming back, so Volek would not have been dealt. Warner, Brunnell, Garcia...I rest my case. Jax was definitely going to deal Brunnell (it might have been made already, I'm not sure), so Gerrard was their backup and wasn't going to be dealt. This woulda, shoulda, coulda game is ridiculous. It was a bad trade and then we made it worse by not really giving him any tools to work with or the proper time with the offense during the offseason, so we have Wanny to blame for that...What else can you say...Monday morning QBs slay me...

 

[Fran2fin]

What would you do as GM

the simple fact is that if Spielman did a little legwork, he could've gotten a much better QB than Feeley, especially if other teams were aware that he was willing to give up a 2.

He obviously did little research when it came to AJ. He had played in a WCO his entire life, he didn't know anything else. Norv was running a downfield vertical attack, something so different, even though Wanny had handcuffed him.

If he had called around, there is no doubt in my mind that he could've picked up somebody else. I'll toss out a few names:

David Garrard-with Leftwich firmly entrenched as the starter, Del Rio would've taken that 2nd in an instant.

Billy Volek-yes, that Volek. Before he blew up last season mountains of yards in relief of McNair, he too would've been available.

Mike McMahon-was the backup in Detroit, with no chance of regaining the starting position with Joey there. They let him go this offseason without an offer. Would they have accepted that 2, oh yes.


All 3 of these QBs would've been a better choice than AJ. They all have arms, 2 of them are great scramblers, and they were all backups that really had no chance of starting unless there was a severe injury.

I really don't think David Gerrard was an option...With injury- prone Leftwich and Gerard a better QB (IMO) I don't think this would have doable...But Gerard would have been my first choice.

 

[akfinfan]

First and foremost...I am not defending Rick Spielman. But so many people have ridiculed him for the Gordon, Feeley pickups...I thought it would be a good idea to see what many of you monday morning GM's would have done, given the circumstances Spielman had last year. So..let er rip. We'll take a look at the scenarios presented and decide which would have succeeded and which would only have worked in Madden. Remember to back any answer up with evidence...dont just say..I would have traded for Peyton Manning cuz hez da bomb.

Would have just stuck with Minor/Morris, or only traded a 6th round pick for Gordon. I would have saved a 3rd round pick for our 05 draft and used it to draft Charlie Frye. I Would have used our second round pick #35 overall in 05 that was used to get Feeley and drafted Shaun Cody. But that's just me.

 

[wazzy]

Weeks later. That is the point. It is totally silly to even consider Collins.

Of course he evaluated Volek. He evaluated a lot of quarterbacks. It would of cost more than a 2nd round pick for Volek.

It wouldn't of costed more then a second on Volek because of his age. He is already and older player if im not mistaken I think he was 28 going into last season and Tennesee had a lot of faith in Mcnair so I'm sure they would of traded him for a 2nd.


If I was RS I would of went after Jeff Garcia hard because he is mobile and we needed a mobile QB. I would of tried to get any proven O-lineman even if that included paying them more then they deserve. I would of gave Travis Minor his shot at the starting runningback with a little better O-line and I think if Minor had the team behind him he could of did something better plus even Saban thinks hes better then Gordon. (Me and him think alike maybe )

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

It wouldn't of costed more then a second on Volek because of his age. He is already and older player if im not mistaken I think he was 28 going into last season and Tennesee had a lot of faith in Mcnair so I'm sure they would of traded him for a 2nd.


If I was RS I would of went after Jeff Garcia hard because he is mobile and we needed a mobile QB. I would of tried to get any proven O-lineman even if that included paying them more then they deserve. I would of gave Travis Minor his shot at the starting runningback with a little better O-line and I think if Minor had the team behind him he could of did something better plus even Saban thinks hes better then Gordon. (Me and him think alike maybe )

It would cost more as the Eagles were in the mode of trading Feeley. The Titans were not and didn't really want to trade Volek. If they really wanted to trade Volek for a 2nd they would of said so.

Basically it is simple lets say I have an apple. I am willing to sell my apple because I have two more apples that I feel are good enough to satisfy my hunger. The guy to the right of me has two apples. He feels he needs two apples to satisfy his hunger. You are a really hungry person who cannot wait a few weeks to see if a better apple is available. My open apple might not be as good as the 2nd apple of the dude on my right, however my apple will be more reasonablely price due to the fact that I want to sell my apple unlike the guy on my right.

During the Gordon trade, Minor was hurt.

Again, there is a weird thing called Salary cap.

Garcia SUCKS.