Who Had Better Draft Classes from 2008-2011 Mia, GB, or Pit???

[WesternNYDolfan]

Thats the beauty of making safe picks, you fool some people into thinking your doing a good job because of all the "starters" you've picked. Luckily for Ireland our owner is one of the fools.

Yea I mean, except for the fact that football is a team sport unlike basketball which is much more star driven. A talented roster top to bottom beats a top heavy team any day....see 2011 Philly Eagles

 

[buxster07]

The problem I see with the OP statistical argument is that it may assume "starting" equals "successful pick."

Some of our starters wouldn't necessarily be starters on other teams. Our starters may just be the upper crust of talent in relation to what is available on our current roster.

A man earns what he is, when he earns it.

As it stands, collectively our starters earned mediocrity.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

Being a "starter" means nothing. Hartline has been starting for us when he wouldn't for a single other team.

I marked Jordy Nelson as a starter for the Pack even though he doesn't start, I also market James Starks as one even though he split time with Ryan Grant last year. On our team I did not mark Clyde Gates nor did I Daniel Thomas even though they are both WR3 and RB 1/2 respectively, to take into consideration these obvious talent deficiencies

 

[Aqua and Orange]

As a GM you need to do better than draft. His free agency moves have been abysmal.

Plus, it's a LOT easier to find "starters" when your team isn't that good. A bit of a flaw in the thinking.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

We were 1-15...how hard do you think it is to start on a 1-15 team? The better question would be how many of our starters do you think would start for Green Bay or Pitt? Brian Hartline? Nope. Koa Misi? Nope. Phillip Merling? Nope. Chris Clemons? Nope. Sean Smith? Probably not. Vontae Davis? Maybe for the Packers but probably not for Pitt. John Jerry? Nope. Reshad Jones? Nope. Chad Henne? lol...Nope. Jake Long? Ding, Ding....we have a winner.

I did not list Jerry, nor Clemons as starters; Hartline could start on a lot of teams but as I said to another poster; to take this into account I marked Jordy Nelson as a Packers starter even though he isn't

 

[Rick Cartman]

Wait.... so now he was in charge of the teams that went 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, and 6-10?

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

How many pro bowlers/ all stars do we have? Maybe my perception of the team is totally warped and we have the talent we need to compete for the playoffs already and the new coach will take us there. Either Sparano was the problem holding back Irelands talent, or there is not as much talent as we think or a combination of both. Well we have a new coach so lets see how the team does this year.

Jake Long is a perennial Pro Bowler and arguably the best LT in the NFL. That's pretty good for a number 1 overall pick.

Pouncy has Pro Bowl potential

Vontae as well if he can stay on the field all season

3 possiblities in 4 drafts isn't bad; who knows D Thomas or someone could breakout.

Hell do you think Pitt fans though Mike Wallace, or Antonio Brown would be as good as they are the year they were drafted? James Starks, Jordy Nelson? James Starks?


I think that's another point too. The better the foundation is the easier it is to find playmakers, or rather the easier it is for playmakers to make plays within that construct. So now that we are further along and have a foundation, we can start looking into more playmakers.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

Wait.... so now he was in charge of the teams that went 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, and 6-10?

I'm just saying if you want to saddle him with those years sure. We can do just last year, but there's not a ton of statistical evidence. Many would argue last year's draft was the best out of all 4. So if anything that would strengthen my arguement

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

Interesting to say the least!!! but Ireland needs more personnel skills with regards to his approach to interviewing and handling players, he seems to be failing in that dept ...

I agree with this. He does seem like a bit of a prick. But honestly if we draft well and begin to win because of it it won't matter. People like to chase rings, so if we want them they will come (see the parade of FAs who sign with NE for less). Bill Belichek was considered a ******** too until he started winning, now he's a ******** people want to play for (I know Ireland's not a coach but BB is also a GM).

FA and the courting process should not be our concern at this point.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

The problem isn't that we have drafted poorly its that there aren't really any home runs.

I'd call Jake Long a Home Run, Pouncy too; I'd say Vontae is at least a double and is still developing could be his home run year this year.

How many NFL players reach their prime after 4 seasons, let alone 3 or 2 or1? there's a ton of potential still on the team. Remember back to some of those horrendous Speilman drafts? most of the players would be off the team a year or two later.

 

[Rick Cartman]

I'm just saying if you want to saddle him with those years sure. We can do just last year, but there's not a ton of statistical evidence. Many would argue last year's draft was the best out of all 4. So if anything that would strengthen my arguement

He drafted a center with a top 15 pick, decent, but safe. Traded up for a RB who runs high and can't seem to stay healthy. Drafted a fast guy who is extremely raw. Charles Clay verdict is still out. Frank Kearse (7th round got cut. Jimmy Wilson, good value. I don't see how this draft helps or hurt him, it's too early to tell. If he was in charge since 08 he should have been shown the door with Sparano. No one knows how much power he had while parcells was here, but i personally find it hard to believe he twiddled his thumbs while tuna made all the decisions.

 

[fin fan1928]

Another thing to remember is the draft position. Miami has not been very good the last few years, and have had higher draft picks. Obviously, the higher the pick, the better "talent" there is.

 

[ForksPhin]

The only problem with this thread is that it shouldn't be based on "starters", but rather high-level contributors. So, for the Packers, you would include Sherrod, Cobb, Bulaga, Burnett, Newhouse, Starks, Raji, Matthews, Lang, Nelson, Finley, Sitton, Flynn. That is actually 13 players that either contributed heavily to a Super Bowl win or a 15-1 regular season. All of the offensive linemen mentioned played, or stepped in well for injured starters. Raji, Matthews, and Burnett are fantastic players. Finley and Nelson are top offensive players. And Starks dominated during the playoff run to the Super Bowl. That looks a lot better than your "6 starters out of 34."

As far as the Steelers are concerned, Heyward, Pouncey, Worilds, Sanders, Antonio Brown, Hood, Wallace, and Mendenhall are all big-time contributors for the Steelers. That's 8 guys. Wallace, Brown, and Sander are 3 unheralded WRs that have all contributed. Wallace is one of the best in the league. Heyward and Hood are going to anchor their D-line for years. Pouncey is going to anchor their O-line for years. Mendenhall has been a top RB. Worilds will step in as soon as the Steelers dump another high-priced LB like they always do.

For the Dolphins, Long, Pouncey, Langford, Hartline, Smith, Davis, and Odrick are really the only guys that have made any kid of impact. Clemons and Reshad Jones are pretty terrible and would not start on many other teams (and neither on can lock down a starting spot in Miami). Merling and Henne were big-time busts. Thomas, Gates, Clay, and Wilson didn't really show enough to say that they will be major contributors going forward. If we want to be homers, sure we can overrate them. But legitimately, they were not consistent and all have major question marks.

 

[Cleetus]

Jake Long is a perennial Pro Bowler and arguably the best LT in the NFL. That's pretty good for a number 1 overall pick.

Pouncy has Pro Bowl potential

Vontae as well if he can stay on the field all season

3 possiblities in 4 drafts isn't bad; who knows D Thomas or someone could breakout.

Hell do you think Pitt fans though Mike Wallace, or Antonio Brown would be as good as they are the year they were drafted? James Starks, Jordy Nelson? James Starks?


I think that's another point too. The better the foundation is the easier it is to find playmakers, or rather the easier it is for playmakers to make plays within that construct. So now that we are further along and have a foundation, we can start looking into more playmakers.

You really cannot go wrong when you are picking number one so of course Long is a great pick, unless you think Ryan at qb would have been better. All the others are not stars they are could be or should be if not for injury.
Ireland will not be fired before this draft so by what you are saying i think you expect him to deliver some playmakers in this draft. We will see. I will go out on a limb though and predict that we get another servicable to very good player in the first round if he stays at 8 and doesn't overreach on a qb at 8. After that we will draft more could have should haves that will make the team and some might even start but we will not win more than 8 games again.

All I want to do is compete for the playoffs this year and then make some noise in them in following years I fail to see progress being made towards my goal under this GM. I may however be proven wrong by Philbin replacing Sparano and utilizing all of Ireland's drafted "talent"

 

[hoops]

interesting...but flawed