Who'd You Rather?

[iceblizzard69]

What I really want is to draft a QB in the first round or trade for Henson. I would rather have Brunell than Fiedler, but since Brunell will not come to a team that wants to draft a QB in the first round, that scenario can not happen. I think Brunell is washed up and while he is better than Fiedler he will not be a star, and he is not worth having as our QB for more than one season.

 

[Bowl_Bound]

How about Kitna instead if Brunell is :cry: ? I cant stand another year with Jay:yell: .

 

[Disnardo]

I voted for the second option. Let's restructure and start all over. Of course it's not going to happen...

Did we get a QB coach this year? Yes...

Did we have one last year? No, not really if anyone believes Norv was doing a great job at it, IMO Fiedler's stats sort of proves it...

He had good stats in the 10 games he started last year. Look at the facts:

The O-L would be an excuse but not to much of one , in 02' sacked JF 1.18 times per game. This past year 1.8 times per game...

He had a 61% comp rate in 02', last year he had 57% (179 completions both years)...

He also had more TD than INT in 02' (14, 9), compare to last year (11, 13). That was playing 1 more game this past year than in 02"...

I believe that JF is very inconsistant and injury prone and not getting any younger. It's time to move on, and I will be satisfied if they got rid of BG also, he did not proved anything for 4 years in Denver and really not much in his 4 starts here.

Let's get a young gun in here to replace the old one that just left...

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by Dolphins17-0
cranx, just cause he said it doesnt mean it's the bottom line, marino said he was ready to get started and denied reports he was resigning, so what...
lets look at it logically and you tell me which teams would be looking at him as a solution to their QB situation for the next 3-4 years.

NE-no
Buffalo-no
Jets-no
Miami- yes
baltimore-no
pitt-no
browns-maybe now that ron wolf is there (but still have couch/holcomb to deal with)
indy-no
tenn-no
jax-no
houston-no
kc-no
denver-no
oakland-yes
san diego-maybe if they trade brees and dont draft manning
philly-no
dallas-yes
nyg-no
wash-no
gb-no
minn-no
chicago-no
det-no
carolina-no
saints-maybe if they give up on AB
TB-no
Atl-no
stl-no
sea-no
SF-likely to look younger with rattay/dorsey
arizona-no

that leaves us with a generous list of
browns, oakland, san fran, san diego, dallas, saints

at the absolute most to compete with us. How many of them do you think will offer him a guaranteed starting job for the next 3 years?
I wouldnt guarantee any, but if you do...
now stack that team up against miami being in his home town, coming off a 10-6 season, talented weapons all over the field and a good defense and you think he wouldnt give us serious consideration with or without henson?

I don't know where you're getting that from but Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Chicago and ESPECIALLY Arizona and theGiants (Fassell has already had dinner with Brunnel recently to "clear thigs up between them) are all possible suitors in this deal. Again, he IS THE MARQUEE QB FA on the market for 2004 and there will be no lack of demand for his services and many of those teams will not be going after a QB in the early rounds meaning Brunell would have- at the very least- two years as the top dog in a particular team's system. Even if you only take the teams on your rather deflated list, we're still talking about SIX TEAMS in competition for the services of ONE QB! It also meanst that, given Miami's cap situation, its needs elsewhere (i.e. WR, O-Line, Probably D-Line with Timbo likely to be cut and Ogun possibly moving on) there is no way the 'Fins can afford to both get into a bidding war with other franchises AND afford to upgrade or even maintain, the other areas of need.

As to the poster who said that Brunell is a veteran QB who knows that he's not the future; you're wrong. Brunell, based upon his statements, clearly feels as though HE IS the future of whatever franchise he's going to as he believes he has five to six years of solid production left in him. In football terms, five to six years equals an eternity so this guy clearly feels as though he should be the undisputed starter for whatever team he plays for for years to come and, given the number of teams that are going to have interest in him, I certainly don't see why he couldn't find a place to make this happen for him.

You guys really need to try ditching the myopia for a minute and look at this thing from a realistic perspective and the reality of the situation is you can't have both Brunell and a top flight rookie QB this year; the two simply won't jel since Brunell has EXPLICITLY STATED that it won't. Please, try to understand that.

 

[ckparrothead]

Having inexperience at the QB position does not put a team in rebuilding mode in the modern NFL anymore. If the Dolphins decided to sign Ricky Ray and let him and Sage duke it out for the #1 QB job, with a first round rookie QB like Rivers or Henson waiting in the wings, the Dolphins wouldn't have to be all about dumping all the high priced veterans and "entering rebuilding mode"

Heck even "rebuilding mode" doesn't put teams in rebuilding mode in the modern NFL anymore. The Ravens went through a severe purge of talent on defense and started a bunch of young guys and came out on top. But there's plenty of instances where a team stays the same too long and gets figured out, and ends by having a bad year. The Raiders for one this year. The Bucs for another.

Always look to improve your team be it short term or long term improvement. In this case I think by getting Ricky Ray and a rookie we're helping this team significantly in the long run without being much worst if at all in the short run than if we say, hired a Mark Brunell to take the reins.

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by ckparrothead
Having inexperience at the QB position does not put a team in rebuilding mode in the modern NFL anymore. If the Dolphins decided to sign Ricky Ray and let him and Sage duke it out for the #1 QB job, with a first round rookie QB like Rivers or Henson waiting in the wings, the Dolphins wouldn't have to be all about dumping all the high priced veterans and "entering rebuilding mode"

Heck even "rebuilding mode" doesn't put teams in rebuilding mode in the modern NFL anymore. The Ravens went through a severe purge of talent on defense and started a bunch of young guys and came out on top. But there's plenty of instances where a team stays the same too long and gets figured out, and ends by having a bad year. The Raiders for one this year. The Bucs for another.

Always look to improve your team be it short term or long term improvement. In this case I think by getting Ricky Ray and a rookie we're helping this team significantly in the long run without being much worst if at all in the short run than if we say, hired a Mark Brunell to take the reins.

Again, I disagree with you here as I did with the same point in another thread. If you go total youth at the QB position there is a very slim chance of any team doing so making the playoffs therefore, the team has to consider themselves in, at least somewhat of a rebuilding mode for the first year of a young QB's tenure. While it's certainly not inconceivable that a young QB could come in and get the job done (a la Tom Brady of 2001 or Mark Bulger of 2002) it is not likely either. Also, in both of the above cases mentioned, those young QB's had two of the better veterans in the NFL behind them tutoring them to some extent. What you're proposing with Ray, Sage, and a rookie would leave the 'Fins with absolutely zero real NFL experience at the QB position.

Again, if you go with the "young guns" all the way around we the fans have to be willing to accept a lost season while they make their mistakes and learn the ropes. Sure, we could get lucky and happen onto a Brady but the chances of that happening are only slightly better than the chances of one of us winning the lottery.

 

[jbond]

Sign Brunell, trade next year's #1 pick for Henson (rather then this year's), keep Sage as #2, let Ogun sign somewhere else and leave us with 2 1st round picks, 2 3rd round picks, etc. which would then be applied to WR's and Olinemen and pickup some project Dlinemen later in the later rounds of the draft, as well as maybe pickup 1-2 Olinemen through FA.

That would be about as ideal as we could get I would think. That gives us what we want --- fixes the QB short and long term, gives us the picks we need to get some new blood, and leaves open FA for others....

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by jbond
Sign Brunell, trade next year's #1 pick for Henson (rather then this year's), keep Sage as #2, let Ogun sign somewhere else and leave us with 2 1st round picks, 2 3rd round picks, etc. which would then be applied to WR's and Olinemen and pickup some project Dlinemen later in the later rounds of the draft, as well as maybe pickup 1-2 Olinemen through FA.

That would be about as ideal as we could get I would think. That gives us what we want --- fixes the QB short and long term, gives us the picks we need to get some new blood, and leaves open FA for others....

Let me make this abundantly clear: YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH BRUNNELL AND A ROOKIE QB, BRUNNELL WILL NOT ACCEPT IT! I hope that clears up that misconception once and for all.

 

[jbond]

OMG......I guess I'm an illiterate person and you are Mark Brunnel himself in disguise! You DON'T know anything about what he will eventually accept. You obviously don't know anything about 'politics' as it plays into a job or office politics. What he says and what he is willing to accept are 2 different things.....AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WOULD ACCEPT,

so until you become god or unless you're Mark Brunnel your opinion is just your opinion......not a proclaimed governing law of the land.

 

[ckparrothead]

What two examples?

If you mean the Ravens and the Panthers you better think again. Two of the better veterans in the league tutoring? Rodney PEETE???

Listen plenty of teams make the playoffs having started the season with a bunch of inexperience at the QB position. I can think of three teams off the top of my head...the Ravens, Panthers, and Cowboys. All three of those teams had serious question marks at places other than QB too and still made it. I'm looking at all 32 teams now and I can see about 6 teams that went with relatively inexperienced QBs going into the season: the Panthers, Cowboys, Ravens, Texans, Redskins, and Lions. Unless you count the Jaguars, but they had Brunell leading them until he got injured, and Brunell led them to an impressive 0-3 start before getting injured and making way for Leftwich. You know whats funny is that the teams of the 6 that had the talent and coaching to get to the playoffs outside the QB position, got there. The Redskins problem wasn't Patrick Ramsey, it was Steve Spurrier's unwillingness to protect him. The Lions were a mess before Harrington got there, are a mess with Harrington there, and won't have the personnel or coaching environment to make a playoff run for at least another year. The Texans are in their second year as an NFL franchise with a guy in his second year as a professional football player. Could they have made the playoffs if Carr played better? Yeah, probably. But you were trying to say that teams that go into the season with inexperience at QB have 0 chance of doing anything while I've just showed you that of the 6 teams that did it, half of them made it to the playoffs and of the 6 the teams with the talent outside the QB position (ie defense, WR, and/or RB) are the ones that managed it.

Heck during the playoffs we'd all just gotten through comparing the Panthers to the Dolphins and saying what striking similarities there are between them and what we were in 2000...coaching philosophy and everything. They went with Jake Delhomme, and came out almost winning the Super Bowl.

Sage has already had the opportunity to learn under Fiedler and Griese if indeed he could learn anything from them. If you're honestly trying to say that the reason Sage couldn't succeed as a young inexperienced QB is because he wouldn't have an angry displaced veteran looking over his shoulder giving him advice, then thats just not right.

 

[ckparrothead]

Dude calm down Cranx. Brunell could very well back out of his claims that he won't go to a team with a first round QB. In fact if he'd do that for any team it would likely be Miami, who currently holds the spot of his #1 choice because of location and personnel. Besides, Brunell wasn't QUOTED by the paper as saying that. The guy who wrote the article said it, which means if its not quoted, it either might never have even been said, or Brunell can easily back out of it.

 

[Fresh]

Originally posted by Cranx


Let me make this abundantly clear: YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH BRUNNELL AND A ROOKIE QB, BRUNNELL WILL NOT ACCEPT IT! I hope that clears up that misconception once and for all.

Are you Brunell or his agent? :rolleyes2

 

[Rebar71]

Originally posted by Cranx
As to the poster who said that Brunell is a veteran QB who knows that he's not the future; you're wrong. Brunell, based upon his statements, clearly feels as though HE IS the future of whatever franchise he's going to as he believes he has five to six years of solid production left in him.

I think you're referring to my post. I didn't say he knows - I said he should know. I don't care how he feels about his skills. Sheesh - he's only a year younger than Favre - even Favre realizes (and accepts) that the Packers need to start looking to their future at the QB position - and Brunnel is no Favre. If Brunnel can't handle reality, then don't sign him. He's starting to sound like friggin' Keyshawn...

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by jbond
OMG......I guess I'm an illiterate person and you are Mark Brunnel himself in disguise! You DON'T know anything about what he will eventually accept. You obviously don't know anything about 'politics' as it plays into a job or office politics. What he says and what he is willing to accept are 2 different things.....AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WOULD ACCEPT,

so until you become god or unless you're Mark Brunnel your opinion is just your opinion......not a proclaimed governing law of the land.

Wow, a bit of a strong reaction from someone who obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

How about this: I'm not God but I'll trust what the guy says until he proves otherwise, how's that? Based upon that alone I DO KNOW WHAT HE WOULD ACCEPT. Also, what in the name of all that is stupid and unholy does office politics have to do with this situation? Do you even know what office politics are? Apparently not otherwise you wouldn't have used that term in a manner that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

BTW, if I were Mark Brunell, I wouldn't have to be in disguise since I'm sitting at a computer and you have no idea who I am or what I look like genius so, for all you know, I could be him...although I'm not...or am I? Also, take whatever level of literacy you do have and find the article that was written just a couple of days ago where Mark Brunnell said that he was not willing to accept a position where a team would be drafting a QB with their #1 pick. Again, this is not ME making this up, this is HIM saying this in an interview regarding his future in the NFL, get it?

Given the current state of the QB market, Brunnell should have no problem finding a situation that meets his needs and, therefore, will not have to accept a position that will cause him to have to compromise his EXPLICIT statements. The only way he would contradict himself here would likely be if A) there was no market for his services and he had to settle for anything (not going to happen) or B) he decides that staying in Florida is more important than money or long term starting status (assuming Miami were to also draft a QB.)

Finally, you're trying to make yourself out to be a bit more omniscient than me considering you are saying that you know that the statement Brunell made was false and that he IS willing to accept a position with a team that will be drafting a QB in the first round.

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by Rebar71

I think you're referring to my post. I didn't say he knows - I said he should know. I don't care how he feels about his skills. Sheesh - he's only a year younger than Favre - even Favre realizes (and accepts) that the Packers need to start looking to their future at the QB position - and Brunnel is no Favre. If Brunnel can't handle reality, then don't sign him. He's starting to sound like friggin' Keyshawn...

That's part of my point here. Everyone has been clamoring for Brunell's services but he's acting like a he's a HOF QB that got a raw deal instead of a guy who's likely going to be signed as a caretaker for a couple of years. If Miami signs him AND grabs a 1st round QB (or Henson) then you're absolutely annihilating the chemistry of the locker room as he's going to be coming into the team from day one looking over his shoulder and complaining about the fact that he's not "the man."

Personnally, I don't really want him here and would rather go with a young QB and Fiedler, or go all "young guns" and allow a year for some level of "rebuilding." The Brunell with a rookie however, just looks like it won't happen due to the problems that would ensue.