Who's a Better Coach: Joe Philbin or Ron Rivera?

[nyashfan]

This team has been in every game down to the last few possessions except the MNF game at New Orleans. To be fair, nobody is beating the Saints at home in prime time.

What was the score this year when the Giants played the Panthers? Oh yeah, it was 38-0. Show me the game this year where the Dolphins were not competitive. Is Tom Coughlin a bad coach? Of course not.

I think fans are overestimating the talent on the Dolphins roster. Garbage OL, running backs whose longest run yesterday was 4 yards. The Keller and Gibson injuries were devastating. And yet fans are expecting blowout wins.

Sorry, get rid of Ireland and Sherman. Those are fair arguments. Philbin deserves to stay.

And how do people know that Philbin doesn't inspire his players because of his stolid approach when talking to the media? Isn't there a place in this league for coaches with the demeanor of Paul Brown, Bill Walsh or Tom Landry to succeed?

And the Panthers must have a great GM. Their last 2 drafts produced Rookies Of The Year. And the Utah DT could give them 3 in a row.

Not to be a smart-alec, but what do you see in Philbin that makes him look focused and well-prepared? I don't get that at all. And I can think of two occasions this year when this team had extra time off to get ready and came out not just flat but dreadful. That's not how a well-prepared team plays.

 

[trojanma]

This team has been in every game down to the last few possessions except the MNF game at New Orleans. To be fair, nobody is beating the Saints at home in prime time.

What was the score this year when the Giants played the Panthers? Oh yeah, it was 38-0. Show me the game this year where the Dolphins were not competitive. Is Tom Coughlin a bad coach? Of course not.

I think fans are overestimating the talent on the Dolphins roster. Garbage OL, running backs whose longest run yesterday was 4 yards. The Keller and Gibson injuries were devastating. And yet fans are expecting blowout wins.

Sorry, get rid of Ireland and Sherman. Those are fair arguments. Philbin deserves to stay.

And how do people know that Philbin doesn't inspire his players because of his stolid approach when talking to the media? Isn't there a place in this league for coaches with the demeanor of Paul Brown, Bill Walsh or Tom Landry to succeed?

And the Panthers must have a great GM. Their last 2 drafts produced Rookies Of The Year. And the Utah DT could give them 3 in a row.

You are fighting a losing battle dude. People have their pitchforks and torches out and things are going to burn.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Joe Philbin picked Mike Sherman to be OC. Why should he get a pass on that? Plus, IF Joe does come back he is lame duck. What decent OC will come to Miami to work under him?

Clean house.

 

[nyashfan]

Well, I started the post and was asked to defend my position. I am baffled by all the knee-jerk reactions. And I am stunned regarding the criticism he had received for using his timeouts on the Panthers final drive. If the defense had held on 3rd and 2, the Dolphins would've had about 1:25 left to execute a game winning drive. So Philbin becomes an idiot because the defense allows Tolbert a huge gain. Then he was criticised for not intentionally letting the Panthers score when they had 1st and goal from the 6. Did they not realize that holding them to a field goal forces overtime and not a loss?

You are fighting a losing battle dude. People have their pitchforks and torches out and things are going to burn.

 

[trojanma]

I will admit I really didn't like using the TO on 3rd and 2.
Our D was reeling. The odds of a first down conversion were huge. Understand why he did it.

That being said TO use is not the greatest measurement of a staff.

The most impressive thing about the staff was the focus of the team. That despite a massive distraction, despite enormous personnel on offense the team was ready to play. This team is down 5 penciled in starters for the opening season. (Keller, Gibson, Pouncey, Martin, Cog). With two more backups going down during the game(DT and Brenner).

That is the true measurement of the coach now a time out here or there.

 

[spiketex]

I dont think Rivera is a great coach, but its obvious he is better than Philbin. Rivera makes a basically ridiculously stupid call to go for it on 4th down from their own 30 with more than 4 minutes left in the game and of course they convert it. That would have been game over. But our team doesn't have the will to put an end to it right then and there.

Phiblin doesn't have this team ready to compete for 4 quarters.

You call it a ridiculous decision but it succeeded. It is the preparedness to make occasional bold decisions that may seem ridiculous from a statistical perspective, but only the end result counts. Belichick and Payton can make that call and handle any criticism, but if Joe went for something like that and it didn't come off, his head would be on a platter.

 

[trojanma]

Going for it on 4th and 10 was the right decision.
Remarkably bold decision but the correct one.
Miami was never going to run for a first down on their D so you knew we weren't going to finish the game out. It would have been three and out likely with incompletes involved and a FG attempt with our extremely shaky kicker.
Worst realistic scenario would have been getting the ball back down 6.

Now, had we wrapped Cam on on 3 and 18 then he would have been forced to punt.
On 4th and 10 with Cam's ability to sell out and run if necessary is a weapon.

 

[dolpns13]

Carolina was sloppy and uninspired.
I felt like we were a step ahead of them most of the game.

We just couldnt overcome the terrible personnel we had out there.

You do realized it was the same personnel that was out there that you credit in your post, right? Philbin again was outcoached and we were again Sherminated with his awesome playcalling.

 

[flynryan15]

Joe Philbin picked Mike Sherman to be OC. Why should he get a pass on that? Plus, IF Joe does come back he is lame duck. What decent OC will come to Miami to work under him?

Clean house.

Brian DaBoll?

 

[mrbunglez]

Neither they both blow.

 

[trojanma]

You do realized it was the same personnel that was out there that you credit in your post, right? Philbin again was outcoached and we were again Sherminated with his awesome playcalling.

You do realize that there is a difference between having guys in position to make a play and guys making plays?

The coaching generally had guys in position to make plays.
Sometimes they made them... Sometimes they didn't
Newton looked confused for most of the day.

Philbin cant make our Dlinemen wrap Newton up on 2 and 18?
Philbin can't make Carroll catch that pic that was underthrown to him.
Philbin can't make Matthews hold onto the ball in the endzone.

All that with the personnel losses and distractions. Carolina could have blown us out.

 

[Vaark]

Jeff Fisher or Mike McCoy.

It boggles my mind how anyone would want a coach with six whole winning seasons going on 19 who was kicked to the curb by Bud Adams :idk:

 

[finfan54]

This question wouldnt even be posed if we stopped Carolina on 4th and 10. That is when you knew for sure the game was a loss.

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

You do realize that there is a difference between having guys in position to make a play and guys making plays?

The coaching generally had guys in position to make plays.
Sometimes they made them... Sometimes they didn't
Newton looked confused for most of the day.

Philbin cant make our Dlinemen wrap Newton up on 2 and 18?
Philbin can't make Carroll catch that pic that was underthrown to him.
Philbin can't make Matthews hold onto the ball in the endzone.

All that with the personnel losses and distractions. Carolina could have blown us out.

and apparently he is no good getting the ref to put the flag back on the field on a legitimate defensless reciever penalty helmet to helmet.

 

[PCmor]

This team has been in every game down to the last few possessions except the MNF game at New Orleans. To be fair, nobody is beating the Saints at home in prime time.

And they've lost most of them in a variety of insane fashions, same as they've been doing for years.

What was the score this year when the Giants played the Panthers? Oh yeah, it was 38-0. Show me the game this year where the Dolphins were not competitive. Is Tom Coughlin a bad coach? Of course not.

Coughlin, two-time Super Bowl winner, took Jacksonville to the AFC championship game, what, five years into their existence? He's a horrible comparison to make to Philbin.

Sorry, get rid of Ireland and Sherman. Those are fair arguments. Philbin deserves to stay.

And how do people know that Philbin doesn't inspire his players because of his stolid approach when talking to the media? Isn't there a place in this league for coaches with the demeanor of Paul Brown, Bill Walsh or Tom Landry to succeed?

Brown, Walsh, Landry ... proven innovators before they became NFL head coaches. Philbin didn't even call the plays at his last stop. And I still have to see one really strong argument that Philbin deserves to stay. What has he done to deserve to stay? You can say, OK give him another year. Fine. But I haven't seen anything on the field that should take any heat off him. I think you are just looking at him through this hopeful lens and blaming everyone else to cover for the Dolphins problems. But coming out playing poorly after 14 and 10 day rest periods can go nowhere but onto the coaching staff.

So what's your answer? Do we get rid of Ireland and saddle the new GM with a coach who has one year to prove he deserves to stay? Then what if the Dolphins finish .500 or worse again in 2014? Do we fire Philbin and saddle our new GM with some kind of big-name coach who might have an entirely different philosophy because Ross wants to make a big splash? It's an endless cycle of blah.

Like I said, keep Philbin if you want. I can take him or leave him and I'd probably lean toward leaving him right now. But, if you are going to fire the GM, you might as well get rid of Philbin too and start from scratch with a GM and coach who have the same plan and are on the same page.

 

[matt11390]

Honestly I struggle with the idea of what to do with Philbin. Concerning Ireland he needs to go .... no struggle with him. But Philbin is different. First his character is without question. He has been through so much lately both personally and professionally it is hard to imagine how any HC would do through those circumstances. As far as his coaching certainly he should be scrutinized here. But he has only been here two years. I have always been one to give a HC 3 years. However an argument could be made because of the bullygate stuff that a clean sweep should be done in the organization no matter if he has any fault in it.

I look at Rivera's career and how he has turned it around in year 3. Perhaps Philbin can do the same. The NFL is so fickle. A team can look so bad one part of the season and then turn a switch and look like a champion. As far as Philbin I guess I am lukewarm. If Miami could get a better option at HC I would support it but there are not many better options. As far as college coaches or NFL coordinators no thanks. Give me Philbin for a third year. But if we could get John Gruden as HC with his brother as OC or Gary Kubiak as OC then I would say go for it. But if we make a change it needs to a clear cut upgrade. If not then I would want Philbin to have at least one more year to see if he can settle the organization down and start moving forward.