Why is everybody so quick 2 4get that tannehill was supposed to sit for 2-3 years | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why is everybody so quick 2 4get that tannehill was supposed to sit for 2-3 years

It's funny that it's said that longer pass plays take longer to develop, but if you just send Wallace on a streak (or another WR in single-coverage), how long do you really have to hold it before chuckin' a rainbow out there? On that key PI play against Cincinnati that ultimate led to Miami getting the field-pos to pin Cincy on their goal-line (of course, leading to the safety), Tanny chucked it out there pretty quick and that ball, IMO, would've hit Wallace perfectly in stride had the defender not tripped him up (hence, the PI call).
If you're waiting for double-moves and stuff, then, yeah, you're waiting a while. But, if you're throwing fades and streaks, you should be able to fire that ball out there between the 2nd and 3rd beat.
 
iamtiv said:
It's funny that it's said that longer pass plays take longer to develop, but if you just send Wallace on a streak (or another WR in single-coverage), how long do you really have to hold it before chuckin' a rainbow out there? On that key PI play against Cincinnati that ultimate led to Miami getting the field-pos to pin Cincy on their goal-line (of course, leading to the safety), Tanny chucked it out there pretty quick and that ball, IMO, would've hit Wallace perfectly in stride had the defender not tripped him up (hence, the PI call).
If you're waiting for double-moves and stuff, then, yeah, you're waiting a while. But, if you're throwing fades and streaks, you should be able to fire that ball out there between the 2nd and 3rd beat.
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Peyton Manning gets rid of the ball faster than any quarterback in the league, and his percentage of deep balls thrown and completed are far from the worst in the league.
 
WVDolphan said:
So find the games in which we have ran the ball well, such as the Bengals game, and find his YPA in those games..... see if it deviates much from his total YPA. Im not sure what it is. Interesting question. If his YPA is similar in such games, Im betting you will just brush it off and go back to blaming the OL, Sherman, or anything else.
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Way to focus on only one thing that wasn't even mention directly.
 
shouright said:
Here are the correlations between Tannehill's YPA and the Dolphins' running game variables for this year:

Rushing attempts: -0.07
Rushing yards: -0.13
Yards per carry: -0.04

In other words, there is no relationship between the Dolphins' running game and Ryan Tannehill's YPA.

Things may sound good in theory, but they really need to be investigated empirically before they're stated in such a factual manner.
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Who even mentioned those stats?

You can live in your fantasy world where the running game is fine, pass protection is great, and the receivers don't screw up. Out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world?
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
Who even mentioned those stats?
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You:

FinfanInBuffalo said:
Once again, you focus on one stat. There are many, many other factors. Tannehill is forced to throw more quickly and into coverages with more defenders, who don't have to respect the run and are therefor in proper position. All of that leads to shorter passes with less YAC.
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shouright said:
Once again, you focus on something you believe theoretically, without doing any objective exploration of it whatsoever.
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You mean like actually watching the games? Reading analyses by professionals? Clearing MS Excel gives you a much better feel for the game of football.

I WATCHED the 2nd and 3rd down plays against the Bucs and saw the OL fail AGAIN at a critical point in the game. On third down they rushed 4 AGAIN and looked liked they didn't even get slowed down by the OL, AGAIN.

Clearly the coaching staff disagrees with your notion that the OL is fine.....

I would like you to find a single instance in the history of the NFL where a team with an adequately performing OL traded in mid season for a left tackle that was benched by his current team. The OL is a mess and every knows it (or should know it).

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

I don't see a single stat is the statement you bolded... hmmm weird...
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
You mean like actually watching the games? Reading analyses by professionals? Clearing MS Excel gives you a much better feel for the game of football.

I WATCHED the 2nd and 3rd down plays against the Bucs and saw the OL fail AGAIN at a critical point in the game. On third down they rushed 4 AGAIN and looked liked they didn't even get slowed down by the OL, AGAIN.
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Or perhaps it was this, again:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/0ap2000000269528/Playbook-Dolphins-vs-Patriots

Or have you obtained the ability to view the all-22 film and can clarify it for us?

I don't see a single stat is the statement you bolded... hmmm weird...
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Perhaps I should just ask again, then:

FinfanInBuffalo said:
Once again, you focus on one stat. There are many, many other factors. Tannehill is forced to throw more quickly and into coverages with more defenders, who don't have to respect the run and are therefor in proper position. All of that leads to shorter passes with less YAC.
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From where do you obtain this information?
 
I don't see many people saying Tannehill is perfect... he is a flawed quarterback who has shown improvement from last season (how much is debatable), but where you lose, shouright, is that you put all the blame of the team on Tannehill.

I can't take you seriously when you try to argue that our OL is average compared to league standards. That's where your argument falls off a cliff.
 
Atila said:
I don't see many people saying Tannehill is perfect... he is a flawed quarterback who has shown improvement from last season (how much is debatable), but where you lose, shouright, is that you put all the blame of the team on Tannehill.
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I think you're misinterpreting my realization that quarterback play is strongly correlated with winning, my corresponding emphasis on Tannehill's play, and my reluctance to blame any other part of the team for his play in the absence of objective information that supports that view, as, as you put it, "putting all the blame of the team on Tannehill."

I can't take you seriously when you try to argue that our OL is average compared to league standards. That's where your argument falls off a cliff.
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I'm happy to consider any objective information that indicates the line is worse than average.

I can't take anyone seriously who, in the context of wanting Ryan Tannehill to succeed and the confirmation bias that can create, bases his appraisal of the offensive line entirely on subjective information. :)

I don't know what Ryan Tannehill is going to be long-term, and I don't know how much to blame the other parts of the team for his play, but unlike some, I'm not willing to blame other parts of the team for his play in the absence of objective information that supports that view.

In other words, I realize my limitations and when I should say "I don't know for sure," rather than having rose-colored glasses determine my view of Ryan Tannehill's supporting cast, in the absence of any objective information that supports it.

Other folks, on the other hand, develop some theoretical explanation for the contribution of Ryan Tannehill's supporting cast to his play, and then treat that theoretical explanation as though it's "true," without support for it from any source of information other than something likely to be heavily laden with confirmation bias (i.e., "watching games").
 
shouright said:
I think you're misinterpreting my realization that quarterback play is strongly correlated with winning, my corresponding emphasis on Tannehill's play, and my reluctance to blame any other part of the team for his play in the absence of objective information that supports that view, as, as you put it, "putting all the blame of the team on Tannehill."

I'm happy to consider any objective information that indicates the line is worse than average.

I can't take anyone seriously who, in the context of wanting Ryan Tannehill to succeed and the confirmation bias that can create, bases his appraisal of the offensive line entirely on subjective information. :)

I don't know what Ryan Tannehill is going to be long-term, and I don't know how much to blame the other parts of the team for his play, but unlike some, I'm not willing to blame other parts of the team for his play in the absence of objective information that supports that view.

In other words, I realize my limitations and when I should say "I don't know for sure," rather than having rose-colored glasses determine my view of Ryan Tannehill's supporting cast, in the absence of any objective information that supports it.

Other folks, on the other hand, develop some theoretical explanation for the contribution of Ryan Tannehill's supporting cast to his play, and then treat that theoretical explanation as though it's "true," without support for it from any source of information other than something likely to be heavily laden with confirmation bias (i.e., "watching games").
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You have never posted a single stat that can be attributed solely to one individual in a team game. Much as you would like to pretend otherwise, only observation of the games can tell the story.
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
You mean like actually watching the games? Reading analyses by professionals? Clearing MS Excel gives you a much better feel for the game of football.

I WATCHED the 2nd and 3rd down plays against the Bucs and saw the OL fail AGAIN at a critical point in the game. On third down they rushed 4 AGAIN and looked liked they didn't even get slowed down by the OL, AGAIN.

Clearly the coaching staff disagrees with your notion that the OL is fine.....

I would like you to find a single instance in the history of the NFL where a team with an adequately performing OL traded in mid season for a left tackle that was benched by his current team. The OL is a mess and every knows it (or should know it).

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

I don't see a single stat is the statement you bolded... hmmm weird...
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Heres the thing. I dont think anyone disagrees about the OL. We all know it isnt good.

What we are trying to discuss is the play of Ryan Tannehill. Some of us can see he is playing very poorly and it is hurting our offense a great deal. Those of us saying that have objective information that supports that.

Those of you saying Tannehill isnt an issue, have nothing to support that other than bashing the entire rest of the team and organization..... coaches, players, GM etc etc.... Thing is, those of us saying Tannehill is playing poorly do not disagree that there are other bad parts of the team. Why can you not accept the fact that other parts of the team not doing a good job dosent mean that Tannehill is doing his well?
 
WVDolphan said:
What we are trying to discuss is the play of Ryan Tannehill. Some of us can see he is playing very poorly and it is hurting our offense a great deal. Those of us saying that have objective information that supports that.
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Like what? Most of what I read is nonsense like "Tanny sucks. He's a bust" or:

He never hits the long pass
He never goes through his progressions
He never moves in the pocket
etc, etc.

All of which are demonstrably false.

WVDolphan said:
Why can you not accept the fact that other parts of the team not doing a good job dosent mean that Tannehill is doing his well?
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Why can't you accept the the performance of all the players affects the others?

I'll ask you this because Shouright likes to ignore things that blow up his arguments:

I would like you to find a single instance in the history of the NFL where a team with an adequately performing OL traded in mid season for a left tackle that was benched by his current team. I'll add to it - " and benched their right tackle at the same time".

Jesus, I can't believe how dense people are being. The coaching staff of the Miami Dolphins has already weighed in on where the biggest problems lie. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
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