Why Jay should and will start

[Dolphan-B]

Since I went to all this work over at the DD forum, I thought I would share...

In 2002, Fiedler led Griese in scoring, making the fewest errors, taking the fewest sacks, completion percentage at every range but one, performance under pressure, performance on third down and, most importantly, winning games. (All figures taken from or derived from ESPN.com splits for each player.)

TD:INT RATIO

Fiedler 17:9

Griese 16:15

TD% OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 5.3%

Griese 3.4%

TD% OF PASSING PLAYS

Fiedler 4.8%

Griese 3.4%

INT%

Fiedler 3.1%

Griese 3.4%

COMPLETION % @ EVERY RANGE BUT 11-20

Fiedler

SACKS % OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 4.0%

Griese 7.2%

QB RATING AS A STARTER

Fiedler 87.6

Griese 85.6

QB RATING UNDER THE BLITZ

Fiedler 97.0

Griese 89.4

QB RATING ON THIRD DOWN

Fiedler 98.0

Griese 66.1

LEAST POINTS GIVEN UP THROUGH TURNOVERS

Fiedler 0

WINNING PERCENTAGE AS A STARTER

Fiedler .700

Griese .615

HEAD TO HEAD

Fiedler

 

[ohall]

Originally posted by Dolphan-B
Since I went to all this work over at the DD forum, I thought I would share...

In 2002, Fiedler led Griese in scoring, making the fewest errors, taking the fewest sacks, completion percentage at every range but one, performance under pressure, performance on third down and, most importantly, winning games. (All figures taken from or derived from ESPN.com splits for each player.)

TD:INT RATIO

Fiedler 17:9

Griese 16:15

TD% OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 5.3%

Griese 3.4%

TD% OF PASSING PLAYS

Fiedler 4.8%

Griese 3.4%

INT%

Fiedler 3.1%

Griese 3.4%

COMPLETION % @ EVERY RANGE BUT 11-20

Fiedler

SACKS % OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 4.0%

Griese 7.2%

QB RATING AS A STARTER

Fiedler 87.6

Griese 85.6

QB RATING UNDER THE BLITZ

Fiedler 97.0

Griese 89.4

QB RATING ON THIRD DOWN

Fiedler 98.0

Griese 66.1

LEAST POINTS GIVEN UP THROUGH TURNOVERS

Fiedler 0

WINNING PERCENTAGE AS A STARTER

Fiedler .700

Griese .615

HEAD TO HEAD

Fiedler

D-B shoots and scores again. Great job.

Oliver...

 

[The Beach Bum]

I totally agree that Jay should start, but not for the same reasons... I feel that Jay has earned his job over that past three years. He has the stats, and he has been playing under pressure every day for four years. Fans have been pressuring him, and he has come through shining most of the time... Stats dont mean a thing in football... they are nice to look at, but they dont win games... you can always have a bad day at work, or year...

 

[Jeep]

The numbers from last year doesnt really tell the whole story.. Denver was playing "catch-up" more times than the Phins were.. and therefore in the second half when we were experiencing Run-Ricky-Run.. Greise didnt have the same luxury and was playing aggressive trying to win in the last quarter..

And to make the comment Jay "earned his job"

well lets just say..

Dan earned the right to play one more year..
OG earned the right to a better contract
and
Fletcher earned the right to start this year..


All I am saying is.... Let the best man win

 

[T-ROCK]

Originally posted by Dolphan-B
Since I went to all this work over at the DD forum, I thought I would share...

In 2002, Fiedler led Griese in scoring, making the fewest errors, taking the fewest sacks, completion percentage at every range but one, performance under pressure, performance on third down and, most importantly, winning games. (All figures taken from or derived from ESPN.com splits for each player.)

TD:INT RATIO

Fiedler 17:9

Griese 16:15

TD% OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 5.3%

Griese 3.4%

TD% OF PASSING PLAYS

Fiedler 4.8%

Griese 3.4%

INT%

Fiedler 3.1%

Griese 3.4%

COMPLETION % @ EVERY RANGE BUT 11-20

Fiedler

SACKS % OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 4.0%

Griese 7.2%

QB RATING AS A STARTER

Fiedler 87.6

Griese 85.6

QB RATING UNDER THE BLITZ

Fiedler 97.0

Griese 89.4

QB RATING ON THIRD DOWN

Fiedler 98.0

Griese 66.1

LEAST POINTS GIVEN UP THROUGH TURNOVERS

Fiedler 0

WINNING PERCENTAGE AS A STARTER

Fiedler .700

Griese .615

HEAD TO HEAD

Fiedler

I take it they banned you immediatly???



I presented that same info to 2 of the notroius Fiedler bashers there and got nowhere... I wasn't crazy about Fiedler until certain people began bashing him ALL THE TIME... I found myself defending the guy without ever having intended to do so...

 

[minus]

Great post........

 

[ohall]

Re: Re: Why Jay should and will start

Originally posted by T-ROCK


I take it they banned you immediatly???



I presented that same info to 2 of the notroius Fiedler bashers there and got nowhere... I wasn't crazy about Fiedler until certain people began bashing him ALL THE TIME... I found myself defending the guy without ever having intended to do so...

That's how it started with me too! :D

Oliver...

 

[Jason in LA]

Hey guys, I'm a Broncos fan that got here through Orangemane.com.

I have to agree with this thread, Fiedler should start over Griese.

I'm glad to see Griese gone. He was a noodle arm QB that wouldn't throw the ball over 10 yards down field. I didn't want him to throw bombs, but a QB has to be able to attack the defense in the 10-25 yard range. Deep outs, deep ins, posts, corners, deep curls, and a number of other patterns down field, have to be used to keep the DBs back. Griese was a dink and dunk QB that didn't scare any DB. He doesn't have an NFL arm.

Griese was also too slow. He couldn't avoid the rush. When he got pressured he would make too many mistakes.

Griese is the type of QB that is only as good as the players around him. He doesn't win games. He only won one game for the Broncos last year. The rest were from the defense and the running game.

You guys should know first hand that Griese can throw a game away by himself. Two years ago the Broncos had a 10-7 4th quarter lead on your Dolphins. Terrell Davis had just hit the 100 yard mark, and the Broncos had just passed mid field. A score there would have given control of the game to the Broncos. On one play, Griese drops back to pass, sees a D lineman coming at him, and pretty much hands him the ball. That lineman runs it back for a TD, giving the Dolphins the lead. The game was sealed on the following kickoff when the Broncos fumbled the ball, and it turned into a Dolphins TD. I'm not blaming the fumble on the kickoff on Griese, but if he hadn't gotten scared and given the ball up the Broncos probably would have gotten points out of the drive, ate up clock, and probably would have won the game.

Last year between the two teams the Broncos again have a 4th quarter lead. Until Griese throws the game away. First pick he gets pressured and throws the ball to a double covered McCaffrey, leading to a pick and giving the Dolphins the ball at mid field. The Dolphins get a TD with the short field. On the next drive, noodle arm throws yet another quick slant(like the CBs weren't wanting for that to come). A Dolphin CB steps in front of it and takes it for another TD. The game had a dramatic ending, but if Griese doesn't throw those two bad picks, the Broncos probably win that game.

Griese was at fault in most of the losses that he played in last year, and he almost blew a few of the wins.

The guy isn't a leader, and he can't make any plays on his own.

Fielder on the other hand, can make plays. He's not the best pocket passer, but he can get the job down. He gets a ton of crap, but there is something about him that I like. I'd take him any day over Griese. I'd probably take him over Plummer too. I'm not sold on Plummer, but at the same time I don't think he'll fail in Denver. I'm kind of on the fence with him. I'm taking the "wait and see" approach, or the "wait and hope" approach with him. But at least I have something to hope for with Plummer. With Griese I had to hope that the rest of the team plays great to make up for his inabilities.

As for the Broncos being down a lot, that's not true at all. The Broncos were only down in 3 games last year. One of those games Griese was hurt(got yanked), and didn't play too much past the 2nd quarter. Funny that once he left the game the Broncos started to play better and made a comeback, even though they still fell a little short. They wouldn't have needed that comeback if Griese hadn't thrown two 1st quarter picks, and had them in a 21-0 hole early in the 2nd.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Thanks Jason in LA, that's something i notice too and thought others on this board would have seen in Griese..I've fought the fight of the QB's and after playing and watching a lot of football, I just think Jay is the more ready QB at this point for this team..and I'm hoping that Brian matures enough to help out if called upon..He started out great at his press conference, so I hope that goes into the work and training he gets to become a good bu..but right now he needs time to sit back and reflect and let Jay take all the pressure and see how Jay deals with it..He said he wanted to learn, I think Jay is a class act to learn from.

 

[akfinfan]

I want Jay Fiedler to start, he ash earned it and hasn't done anything to warrant a benching, but comparing stats doesn't mean a whole lot. Who cares what we think, let them battle it out themselves and may the best QB win.

 

[Emskirch]

I am still backing Jay. Second year in Norv's offense should be fun.

Brian is the backup, I don't need numbers to prove who should start (although kudos on the work)

As I will say time and time again, folks wanted Lucas to start over Jay last year. Jay will always have the Marino cloud over his head. Even if he won the SB, there will be folks who want to unseed him.

 

[M-REAL]

Fielder is definitely the #1 quarterback. The guy has shown us he is very tough, and has alot of heart! Do you think he is not still bitter about last season? Revenge is the focus this year!!

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by Dolphan-B
Since I went to all this work over at the DD forum, I thought I would share...

In 2002, Fiedler led Griese in scoring, making the fewest errors, taking the fewest sacks, completion percentage at every range but one, performance under pressure, performance on third down and, most importantly, winning games. (All figures taken from or derived from ESPN.com splits for each player.)

TD:INT RATIO

Fiedler 17:9

Griese 16:15

TD% OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 5.3%

Griese 3.4%

TD% OF PASSING PLAYS

Fiedler 4.8%

Griese 3.4%

INT%

Fiedler 3.1%

Griese 3.4%

COMPLETION % @ EVERY RANGE BUT 11-20

Fiedler

SACKS % OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 4.0%

Griese 7.2%

QB RATING AS A STARTER

Fiedler 87.6

Griese 85.6

QB RATING UNDER THE BLITZ

Fiedler 97.0

Griese 89.4

QB RATING ON THIRD DOWN

Fiedler 98.0

Griese 66.1

LEAST POINTS GIVEN UP THROUGH TURNOVERS

Fiedler 0

WINNING PERCENTAGE AS A STARTER

Fiedler .700

Griese .615

HEAD TO HEAD

Fiedler

None of this means anything.
There have been a ton of Stat posting by many here to support both sides. Griese and Jay. It means nothing though. You can take a hundred different situations and twist the numbers to support either side. Different teams, different situations, different skill players, different coaching, etc. The tale of the tape will be told within the next 2 years. This year is not a fair assessment either. Jay has the upper hand by a longshot because he knows this offense and it's obvious that he is the best choice based on that point only. The Fins will have to see how well Griese can come along in practices unless Jay goes down. He may never get a chance to really show the Fins if he is better or not. Personally I hope he does but we'll see.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by Dolphan-B
Since I went to all this work over at the DD forum, I thought I would share...

In 2002, Fiedler led Griese in scoring, making the fewest errors, taking the fewest sacks, completion percentage at every range but one, performance under pressure, performance on third down and, most importantly, winning games. (All figures taken from or derived from ESPN.com splits for each player.)

TD:INT RATIO

Fiedler 17:9

Griese 16:15

TD% OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 5.3%

Griese 3.4%

TD% OF PASSING PLAYS

Fiedler 4.8%

Griese 3.4%

INT%

Fiedler 3.1%

Griese 3.4%

COMPLETION % @ EVERY RANGE BUT 11-20

Fiedler

SACKS % OF TOTAL PLAYS

Fiedler 4.0%

Griese 7.2%

QB RATING AS A STARTER

Fiedler 87.6

Griese 85.6

QB RATING UNDER THE BLITZ

Fiedler 97.0

Griese 89.4

QB RATING ON THIRD DOWN

Fiedler 98.0

Griese 66.1

LEAST POINTS GIVEN UP THROUGH TURNOVERS

Fiedler 0

WINNING PERCENTAGE AS A STARTER

Fiedler .700

Griese .615

HEAD TO HEAD

Fiedler

I personally don't think many people doubt that Jay will start. The bigger question to me is can he stay healthy? So far over his career as a starter, he has not shown the ability to play all year. If he gets hurt again this season and misses another bunch of games, Griese could come in and get the nod for next year.....then the question for him will be the same. Can he stay healthy? Jay was playing great last year until he was injured. IMO he clearly has played well enough to get us to the Super bowl, but his injury situation is unacceptable. Some guys just can't take the beating on the NFL. I think it's very disruptive to a team to have the QB go down 4-5 games a season. That said though if Jay misses a couple games or less I expect a great year.

 

[DolphinVJ]

Dolphan-B,

There are other 2002 stats that favor Griese over Fiedler and I will not repeat in this thread because it is well chronicled in another thread. Also keep in mind that 2002 was a down year for Griese and a career year for Fielder.

Jason in LA,

Welcome to our Board. I think Griese is better at making more types of throws than Fiedler; Fiedler hardly completes longer throws. If Griese is so inept how come he had a pro bowl year a couple of years ago? Fiedler has thrown away more than his share of games as well. Griese was 8-4 in the games he played a lot last year and Buerlein was 1-3 in the other games.

I do agree that Fiedler probably has better intangibles and that he should start over Griese to begin the season not because he is better but because he is better in Norv's system currently.