Why Philbin should be fired, and Why he won't be | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why Philbin should be fired, and Why he won't be

HoneyB said:
This is just my opinion.

First of all why he won't be fired:

1. The Dolphins had a Cam Cameron type collapse the last 2 games, but in favor of Philbin is the fact that it's only the ending, not the entire season. We're 8-8, which technically is average. We were in a position to make the playoffs, which means Ross can project we'll be in at least that position next year, and with some minor changes, can make a strong run.

2. Ross likes Philbin a lot, and seemed to have faith in him right before these last 2 games. Philbin's only had 2 years, and it's likely Ross thinks he deserves at least another year.

3. There doesn't seem to be any locker room revolt. Yes, the team laid down for the Jets game and sent a message to the coaching staff. But given the fact that Ryan Tannehill has let it be known he's lost faith in Mike Sherman, and Mike Wallace seems fairly upbeat in terms of wanting to continue to work with Tannehill,...things seem to be set up for Sherman and other coaches to be fired, not Philbin. All of the older veterans, keep in mind, are gone. Right now they would be the most vocal and cause the most trouble, but they're missing.

4. Good is the enemy of Great. While it's clear there's not much progress in year two, Philbin could argue this is expected, as a natural side effect of huge roster changes, a lot of youth, and insufficient time to fully implement his version of the WCO. He'll get out that big Mead spiral folder and show Ross how far along the path he's gone, and that we're on schedule. Then he'll get a sad face and lament that it would have been so much easier if Ireland didn't screw up the draft.

Why I no longer like Philbin and think he should be fired:

1. Personality-wise, he's not an alpha male. He's not a leader of men.

2. Talent-wise, he was not the "young Don Shula" we were looking for, when we hired him. Despite a lot of tenure in Green Bay, was not allowed to call his own plays. He's not a mastermind. What he did was bring knowledge of a winning organization to Miami, and was smart and could lay out a vision and a method to get to the Superbowl. He interviewed well. He had a big notebook. He had a plan. Unfortunately, I think we were sold a bill of goods.

3. Incognito/Martin: This was something you'd expect the control freak and planner from Green Bay to be good at, which is keeping high character guys in the locker room and being hands-on to make sure everything's working and going smoothly. But instead, we learned he covered up a previous instance, and doesn't take responsibility for any of the debacle, because he claimed he didn't know. I have to admit, that as much as we hated Parcells/Sparano, this wouldn't have happened under their watch. It would have gotten fixed, or someone would have left the club.

4. He promised an explosive, WCO, and it didn't materialize.

5. He hired Sherman, and the O line coach, and the QB coach, all who deserve to be fired. (Sherman has claimed that he prefers a balanced run/pass offense, and that it was actually Philbin who kept pushing for more passing during the season.)

6. He failed to develop Ryan Tannehill as much as he and Sherman claimed they would, or utilize his strengths.

7. He is in year two, which was plenty of time to assess the O line and RB's, which we were all concerned with, and did nothing to improve either. The running game has gotten worse, not better. He Chose Miller over Reggie Bush, eliminated the Fullbacks, and Fasano is gone. All of this was by design because finesse is Philbin's plan, not Sherman's, not Ireland's, it's squarely on his shoulder.

8. Philbin bragged at the beginning of the season how much in synch he was with Ireland, and how easy it was to work with him, so I don't buy for a minute that he had no influence on Ireland. Ireland picked up some nice FA's for Philbin for his finesse offense, and if Philbin needed some additions from the draft, like a top lineman, or a RB, or a blocking TE, then he should have demanded it. I believe Ireland felt comfortable going defense early in the draft because the feedback he received from Philbin was that he was satisfied.

9. Firing all the veterans so that you can have control, is a crappy reason to fire people. But that's what he did, he wanted the leadership council out of the locker room. And yet, he didn't fill the void.

10. Last but not least, losing the last two games of the season, to the Bills and Jets, and scoring 7 points in 8 quarters, and blowing a playoff chance, and embarrassing us nationally.
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It wasn't a Cam Cameron collapse. It was a Miami Dolphins collapse circa 2000+ and onward.
 
HoneyB said:
What I brought up is what was done, what as accomplished, what direction they went in, who they fired and hired. I didn't try to read his mind. He should be held accountable for the team, period. If people around the league questioned whether Martin would pan out at LT, and whether Miller could handle primary back duties, then why didn't Philbin question it? The answer is, because you don't question yourself. He made decisions based on what he thought would work. He got rid of the fullbacks because he didn't feel he needed fullbacks, for example. He didn't need Reggie Bush. It's fine to make decisions...every coach has to. You're molding your team. But if it doesn't work, then yes, we have a right to question why.
.
Click to expand...

We don't know if he questioned it or not, and even if he did were there better options on the roster I'm not seeing? Jeff Ireland supplies o-linemen and Joe Philbin decides which of those o-linemen play. Jon Martin absolutely sucked yet he was still the best option for Philbin as far as I can tell.
 
I dont know about Philbin. There are good points made for and against.

but when my own QB says Sherman needs to go.....you pretty much run with it. dontcha think?
 
finfan54 said:
I dont know about Philbin. There are good points made for and against.

but when my own QB says Sherman needs to go.....you pretty much run with it. dontcha think?
Click to expand...

Philbin is only 2 years removed from being an OC himself so nothing much will change if we dump Sherman. I also feel that Tannehill should worry about actually completing some deep passes and stop worrying about Sherman.
 
HoneyB said:
This is just my opinion.

First of all why he won't be fired:

1. The Dolphins had a Cam Cameron type collapse the last 2 games, but in favor of Philbin is the fact that it's only the ending, not the entire season. We're 8-8, which technically is average. We were in a position to make the playoffs, which means Ross can project we'll be in at least that position next year, and with some minor changes, can make a strong run.

2. Ross likes Philbin a lot, and seemed to have faith in him right before these last 2 games. Philbin's only had 2 years, and it's likely Ross thinks he deserves at least another year.

3. There doesn't seem to be any locker room revolt. Yes, the team laid down for the Jets game and sent a message to the coaching staff. But given the fact that Ryan Tannehill has let it be known he's lost faith in Mike Sherman, and Mike Wallace seems fairly upbeat in terms of wanting to continue to work with Tannehill,...things seem to be set up for Sherman and other coaches to be fired, not Philbin. All of the older veterans, keep in mind, are gone. Right now they would be the most vocal and cause the most trouble, but they're missing.

4. Good is the enemy of Great. While it's clear there's not much progress in year two, Philbin could argue this is expected, as a natural side effect of huge roster changes, a lot of youth, and insufficient time to fully implement his version of the WCO. He'll get out that big Mead spiral folder and show Ross how far along the path he's gone, and that we're on schedule. Then he'll get a sad face and lament that it would have been so much easier if Ireland didn't screw up the draft.

Why I no longer like Philbin and think he should be fired:

1. Personality-wise, he's not an alpha male. He's not a leader of men.

2. Talent-wise, he was not the "young Don Shula" we were looking for, when we hired him. Despite a lot of tenure in Green Bay, was not allowed to call his own plays. He's not a mastermind. What he did was bring knowledge of a winning organization to Miami, and was smart and could lay out a vision and a method to get to the Superbowl. He interviewed well. He had a big notebook. He had a plan. Unfortunately, I think we were sold a bill of goods.

3. Incognito/Martin: This was something you'd expect the control freak and planner from Green Bay to be good at, which is keeping high character guys in the locker room and being hands-on to make sure everything's working and going smoothly. But instead, we learned he covered up a previous instance, and doesn't take responsibility for any of the debacle, because he claimed he didn't know. I have to admit, that as much as we hated Parcells/Sparano, this wouldn't have happened under their watch. It would have gotten fixed, or someone would have left the club.

4. He promised an explosive, WCO, and it didn't materialize.

5. He hired Sherman, and the O line coach, and the QB coach, all who deserve to be fired. (Sherman has claimed that he prefers a balanced run/pass offense, and that it was actually Philbin who kept pushing for more passing during the season.)

6. He failed to develop Ryan Tannehill as much as he and Sherman claimed they would, or utilize his strengths.

7. He is in year two, which was plenty of time to assess the O line and RB's, which we were all concerned with, and did nothing to improve either. The running game has gotten worse, not better. He Chose Miller over Reggie Bush, eliminated the Fullbacks, and Fasano is gone. All of this was by design because finesse is Philbin's plan, not Sherman's, not Ireland's, it's squarely on his shoulder.

8. Philbin bragged at the beginning of the season how much in synch he was with Ireland, and how easy it was to work with him, so I don't buy for a minute that he had no influence on Ireland. Ireland picked up some nice FA's for Philbin for his finesse offense, and if Philbin needed some additions from the draft, like a top lineman, or a RB, or a blocking TE, then he should have demanded it. I believe Ireland felt comfortable going defense early in the draft because the feedback he received from Philbin was that he was satisfied.

9. Firing all the veterans so that you can have control, is a crappy reason to fire people. But that's what he did, he wanted the leadership council out of the locker room. And yet, he didn't fill the void.

10. Last but not least, losing the last two games of the season, to the Bills and Jets, and scoring 7 points in 8 quarters, and blowing a playoff chance, and embarrassing us nationally.
Click to expand...

Not sure I buy all that, but you're persuasive.
 
phinman1 said:
Not sure I buy all that, but you're persuasive.
Click to expand...

Here's someone else:


David Canter ‏@davidcanter

@RedBlurr @FranksYanks23 did you watch the last two games? Nothing to do with talent. Terrible coaching preparation
Reply
Retweet
Favorite


I'm not saying it can't work out, and in year three we may get better. Maybe a new OC will invigorate things. I'm just saying that I started out liking Philbin very much, and ended up feeling like I got sold a bill of goods. He didn't seem to be an asset to the team, he was just a body. And it leaves me with a lot of concerns for 2014 instead of a lot of hope.

I honestly just saw the Cantor thing 5 minutes ago, but it's interesting I'm not the only one shocked and disgusted over the Bills/Jets game and think that it points to coaching.
 
Canter has been very vocal about the two losses. Good for him!
HoneyB said:
Here's someone else:


David Canter ‏@davidcanter

@RedBlurr @FranksYanks23 did you watch the last two games? Nothing to do with talent. Terrible coaching preparation
Reply
Retweet
Favorite


I'm not saying it can't work out, and in year three we may get better. Maybe a new OC will invigorate things. I'm just saying that I started out liking Philbin very much, and ended up feeling like I got sold a bill of goods. He didn't seem to be an asset to the team, he was just a body. And it leaves me with a lot of concerns for 2014 instead of a lot of hope.

I honestly just saw the Cantor thing 5 minutes ago, but it's interesting I'm not the only one shocked and disgusted over the Bills/Jets game and think that it points to coaching.
Click to expand...
 
What kind of a ****ing moron would trash the team he's in the middle of contract negotiations with?
 
ThIs reads like a list of reasons a kid doesn't like his principal.

"he's not a alpha male."

Are you kidding me with this stuff? Seriously, this list has almost nothing to do with what philbin does on a daily basis as a HC, or a game day coach.
 
roy_miami said:
What kind of a ****ing moron would trash the team he's in the middle of contract negotiations with?
Click to expand...

Didn't he also say earlier in the season that he could not believe Misi got extended and good luck next year when his client leaves and was not happy with Ireland? Maybe that was Starks agent but I thought it was Canter.
 
HoneyB said:
So are you saying the QB wasn't approved by Joe Philbin and he bears no responsibility?

As far as the O line, shopping is not the same as signing. You can say that about every position, why don't you say that Philbin wanted Matt Flynn, too, when he went quarterback shopping? We didn't prefer Flynn so we don't have Flynn. He made decisions. As far as Long, I don't know how much the Dolphins valued him. They seemed content to let him go and move Martin back to the left side. They miscalculated. I can't believe you are saying with a straight face that we traded for McKinnie mid-season all on our own. They were forced into it, because the Incognito/Martin situation blew up in their face. So if you're asking, who bailed them out and brought in McKinnie, I would say that was obviously Ireland, not Philbin.
Click to expand...

McKinnie was signed BEFORE Martin and his cheer leaders here, had their hissy fit.
 
Albert Romano said:
Didn't he also say earlier in the season that he could not believe Misi got extended and good luck next year when his client leaves and was not happy with Ireland? Maybe that was Starks agent but I thought it was Canter.
Click to expand...

It was, cantor is a clown. Im kind of surprised athletes are willing to keep him as there agent.
 
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