Winning Sustainability? What Are the Essential Attributes of a Team That Has It?

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Pretty simple in theory. GM and a coaching staff. Basically the NE way for me. Having a coaching staff that can actually train and coach up players. Cut players ahead of time before they sour (Belichick is awesome at this), very good drafts and choose players who really fit for what you’re doing. Also, draft these hybrid players so when a player or players go down someone who knows the system is ready to move over and step in.
And most of all, do not follow the idiot that Tbaum was, handing out atrocious contracts Like you’re handing out Halloween candy.

Yeah, so far I think that's closest to what I think they have in mind. I like it. Basically, applying long term good business sense, practices and discipline to a billion dollar professional football organisation.

 

[dolfan91]

It starts and ends with the QB. Once that is in place, a team can sustain winning into the future, as long as, the F/O puts complimentary pieces around him. A quality coaching staff is also needed. A staff with a clear vision and the ability to motivate, teach and get the most our of the players. I think this goes hand in hand with the QB.

 

[EasyRider]

Yeah, so far I think that's closest to what I think they have in mind. I like it. Basically, applying long term good business sense, practices and discipline to a billion dollar professional football organisation.

I hate to say we need to copy the NE way, but what other way is there? It works and it’s proven. Especially not being emotionally tied to any player.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

It starts and ends with the QB. Once that is in place, a team can sustain winning into the future, as long as, the F/O puts complimentary pieces around him. A quality coaching staff is also needed. A staff with a clear vision and the ability to motivate, teach and get the most our of the players. I think this goes hand in hand with the QB.

Since you think it starts and ends with the QB, do you also think an organisation built the right way must get the best QB available at any cost?

 

[SCall13]

Coaching and QB play are obviously important. But I think, just as importantly, building a team of intelligent and SELFLESS players, coachable players. We need guys the opposite of Suh and Antonio Brown. Guys who are there as much for the team as they are for themselves. Sounds like a tall order. But it can be done and it appears as if that is what this coaching staff and scouting department are looking for. That's why it didn't hurt their feelings to jettison some of the players they did prior to the season. Don't want to be here? Glad we know now. Let's go get guys who do.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Coaching and QB play are obviously important. But I think, just as importantly, building a team of intelligent and SELFLESS players, coachable players. We need guys the opposite of Suh and Antonio Brown. Guys who are there as much for the team as they are for themselves. Sounds like a tall order. But it can be done and it appears as if that is what this coaching staff and scouting department are looking for. That's why it didn't hurt their feelings to jettison some of the players they did prior to the season. Don't want to be here? Glad we know now. Let's go get guys who do.

I like it . . .

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Has yet to be proven.

In the last 10 years NE has started 3 QBs other than Brady - Cassell, Brissett, and Garo. None have done anything special except Garo this year, and he's on a loaded team with an outstanding staff. If you think NE needs a top QB, I'm willing to listen.

 

[ThePeopleShow13]

Outside of the obvious consistency at HC/QB, I think buying low and selling high on players is critical. If you look at NE they have managed cap space for years by letting their top free agents walk (and getting compensation picks) or trading guys before a big extension. Heck they “bought” Cooks for a season and flipped him to the Rams for an earlier 1st round pick than they used to get him from the Saints the previous year. Miami has to stop handing out massive contracts to players like Reshad Jones who have a zero percent chance to live up to their deal. There is a difference between rewarding loyalty and grossly overpaying players.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

All good points, but New England and Pittsburgh aren't the only ones putting highly competitive teams on the field most every year. I think we can add Seattle, Kansas City, New York Giants, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Green Bay, Houston, New Orleans, and Indianapolis to that list.

While each of those teams may have some down years where they may need to rebuild occasionally, all of those teams are in the top half of the league most of the time; often winning their divisions and playoff spots. This is what Ross says he wants for the fan base.

My question is . . . what are these teams doing that the Dolphins haven't been doing since Jimmy Johnson? What gives them reasonably sustained success? They all must have something in common. What is it? Do they approach drafting and FA differently? Did they all just get lucky to find the right coaching staff? What are Ross and Grier shooting for, exactly?

2 points.
1) I never said NE and PITT were the only good teams. Just used them to show different philosophies can win. Matter of fact, I added "There are teams that sem to be in the playoffs almost every year and the strategies vary," but maybe should have said 'other teams.'
2) What are good teams doing? Answered that. I mentioned a top HC and staff and I'd say a top 10 QB, and any two of top OL, top D, top run D, multiple weapons. Those don't guarantee every season will be successful, but, by far, most will be.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

2 points.
1) I never said NE and PITT were the only good teams. Just used them to show different philosophies can win. Matter of fact, I added "There are teams that sem to be in the playoffs almost every year and the strategies vary," but maybe should have said 'other teams.'
2) What are good teams doing? Answered that. I mentioned a top HC and staff and I'd say a top 10 QB, and any two of top OL, top D, top run D, multiple weapons. Those don't guarantee every season will be successful, but, by far, most will be.

Fair enough, but do they approach the draft differently, knowing they have good coaches?

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Fair enough, but do they approach the draft differently, knowing they have good coaches?

I don't think there's a question the draft will be handled differently. even the most negative fan admits Flo hired successful scouts and the moves in '19 seemed to indicate a more sophisticated approach. I don't know how to actually answer "differently." A lot will be the same as other teams. They will draft at positions of need. They will entertain trade offers. They will give priority to 'fit.' Obviously, I expect their success to below the standard of some here ('they have to hit on EVERY pick), and I expect a number of successes to be 'average' players. But I also expect 1-2 players to be top 20 by year 2. I don't think any of that is unreasonable.

 

[Eesti]

One part that is overlooked is when hiring a coach, they are usually either from offensive or defensive backgrounds. You see a former DC come in and hire an OC to run the offense or vice-versa. An offensive coach like Gase only pays attention to the offense and leaves the D in the hands of the DC. When it is unsuccessful they have to fire them and bring in a new system. Same for former DC's who hire OC's to run the offense.

I think a head coach should have both systems in place so they are not constantly implementing new offenses or defenses and setting the players back each time. Instead of mastering one system, they spend the off-season learning new systems.

Most of these schemes are NOT new. They are systems that have been around for a long time that may evolve or incorprate new trends but they maintain the same terminology & philosophy. All of the main systems have been successful at some point.

If, as a defensive coach, you have a set offense in place (and playbook), should your OC get a HC job, you need to be able to promote from within or bring in a new guy that can run that same system so players aren't wasting valuable time learning new schemes. Of course, on offense, this helps when you have a long term QB.

It is then also important for the GM to find players that fit within these systems. The more versatile the scheme and player, the better off you are. A great example is the defensive scheme we are running. Hopefully we see the same on offense this year. I don't want to be in a situation where we draft a franchise QB, Gailey retires in two years and we make the kid start over from scratch (ala Ryan Tannehill & many others).

 

[fansinceGWilson]

One part that is overlooked is when hiring a coach, they are usually either from offensive or defensive backgrounds. You see a former DC come in and hire an OC to run the offense or vice-versa. An offensive coach like Gase only pays attention to the offense and leaves the D in the hands of the DC. When it is unsuccessful they have to fire them and bring in a new system. Same for former DC's who hire OC's to run the offense.

I think a head coach should have both systems in place so they are not constantly implementing new offenses or defenses and setting the players back each time. Instead of mastering one system, they spend the off-season learning new systems.

Most of these schemes are NOT new. They are systems that have been around for a long time that may evolve or incorprate new trends but they maintain the same terminology & philosophy. All of the main systems have been successful at some point.

If, as a defensive coach, you have a set offense in place (and playbook), should your OC get a HC job, you need to be able to promote from within or bring in a new guy that can run that same system so players aren't wasting valuable time learning new schemes. Of course, on offense, this helps when you have a long term QB.

It is then also important for the GM to find players that fit within these systems. The more versatile the scheme and player, the better off you are. A great example is the defensive scheme we are running. Hopefully we see the same on offense this year. I don't want to be in a situation where we draft a franchise QB, Gailey retires in two years and we make the kid start over from scratch (ala Ryan Tannehill & many others).

I don't think the GM finds the players. The coaches and scouts do

 

[BigNastyFish]

...start by not blowing multiple R1 draft picks on midgets and cripples.

 

[NBP81]

Well here's my simplified back of a napkin thought proccess.

• Making the playoffs is the #1 objective. Single elimination formats involve alot of variance, especially in the game of football where a couple bad breaks can make a underdog win and advance. You simply need to put your team in there as frequently as you can and getting a bye should be high on the list.
• You get to the playoffs by winning games.
• Historically, scoring points is more important than stopping your opponent from scoring points to win games.
• So logically, focusing on scoring points should be a priority.
• How do you score points on offense? Well in the early 90s the Running game started getting some traction when it comes to its correlation with points scored and made peak actually getting close to the passing in 2004, when the rules changed. The running game has been taking a deep dive ever since. Seems logical to me that building a strong passing game would be a solid strategy for scoring points on a regular basis.
• 
  
• The most important elements to building a passing game are QB, OL and WR. QB being by far the most expensive position to fill. Goes without saying that having a QB on a rookie contract for essentially 5 years gives you alot of options when it comes to surrounding him with talent.
• The second most expensive position is Tackle, these guys cost alot of dough even when they are mediocre. So its a good idea to get those on rookie contracts also. WRs are are pretty much the same going in 3rd.
• Whats really interesting is that QB, T and WR are actually, in that order, the most significant valuable positions to draft on your whole team based on vet salaries, their rookie contract and the odds of getting different player tiers through the draft. In other words the top 3 in draft expected value(relative to salary cap) are QB, T and WR.

Now Im really not saying this is the only way to win, Im saying its the approach thats most likely to give you a shot consistently, year after year.