I'm going to stray here for a moment from the OP. But before I get started, answer yourselves these 3 questions before someone makes me choke on my PB&J.
1) Name the Pro-Bowlers, All-Pros and HOF'ers that Emmitt Smith played with on the offensive side of the ball in his career with Dallas.
2) Name the Pro-Bowlers, All-Pros and HOF'ers that Thurman Thomas played with on the offensive side of the ball in his career with Buffalo.
3) Name the Pro-Bowlers, All-Pros and HOF'ers that Barry Sanders played with on the offensive side of the ball in his career with Detroit.
Answers here:
HOF players names will be in bold and the amount of Pro-Bowl and All-Pro years will be in parenthesis.
1)
G/T - Larry Allen (11/PB, 7/AP)
G/T - Nate Newton (6/PB, 2/AP)
T - Erik Williams (4/PB, 2/AP)
C/G - Mark Stepnoski (3/PB)
C/T - Mark Tuinei (2/PB)
C - Ray Donaldson (2/PB)
FB - Daryl Johnston (2/PB)
WR - Michael Irvin (5/PB, 1/AP)
TE - Jay Novacek (5/PB, 1/AP)
QB - Troy Aikman (6/PB)
2)
C - Kent Hull (3/PB, 2/AP)
T/G - Wil Wolford (2/PB)
G - Jim Richter (2/PB)
T - Howard Ballard (2/PB)
FB - Sam Gash (2/PB)
WR - Andre Reed (7/PB)
WR - James Lofton (1/PB)
WR -Eric Moulds (3/PB)
QB - Doug Flutie (1/PB)
QB - Jim Kelly (5/PB, 1/AP)
3)
T - Lomas Brown (1/AP, 7/PB)
C/G - Kevin Glover (3/PB)
WR/RB - Mel Gray (2/AP, 3/PB)
WR - Herman Moore (3/PB, 4/PB
To start, Thurman Thomas is not even considered a top 10 RB of all time, let alone better than Barry. I won't even entertain that argument. So let's quickly move on from that notion as it is surprisingly uglier than the women of Buffalo.
Emmitt Smith had the benefit of playing behind 6 (1,2,3,4,5,6) Pro-Bowl/All-Pro lineman, one of which is a HOF'er. He was also surrounded by a HOF QB and WR, a Pro-Bowl TE and followed the lead blocking of a Pro-Bowl FB. I can not stress to you enough the simplicity of the offense that Smith ran under. If you're interested you can actually find the Cowboys '92 offensive playbook online. Emmitt basically ran out of 4 formations (I-form, Pro-set, Single, Near/Far) with 4 basic plays (Toss, Sweep, Off-tackle, Dive). Even though that might in a sense sound like an accomplishment, it's purely from the fact that there was no need to divvy up the looks when running behind the road graders he had in front of him.
Emmitt is a top 10 back and even in most circles a top 5 RB of all time. Though despite being propped up behind all that talent, Smith only averaged 4.2 yd/c and 85.4 yd/g in his career in Dallas. "Only", you are saying to yourself. "Those aren't shabby averages by any means", you might be thinking. Well, that's because all you Negative Yardage Nancies haven't been fully introduced to and/or under-appreciate the greatness of Barry Sanders.
Barry averaged 5.0 yd/c (tied for #1 in NFL history with Jim Brown) and 99.8 yd/g (2nd all time). Barry made the Pro-Bowl 10 times; one for every year that he played. He had five seasons in which he rushed for over 1,500 yards (1,500, 1,548, 1,553, 1,883, 2,053) which is also an NFL record. Even at his worst he was still better than the best backs in the history of the game. Sander's lowest rushing total for a season was 1,115 yards. The significance? He missed five games during that '93 season. Besides that year he never rushed for anything lower than 1,300 yards ('90 - 1,304).
Mind Blown? Thought so. Because again, comparing Barry with the other RB's mentioned and the talent that he played with makes these numbers even more astounding. Consider he only played alongside 4 other Pro-Bowl players, only two of which were lineman, one was primarily a PR/KR (Gray), and no other HOF'ers (besides himself, of course) he still ranks 9th all time in TD's. "That TD total should be higher for him to be considered the best RB of all-time", you say. Well, both Thurman Thomas and Emmitt Smith had the opportunity of playing with HOF QB's for their entire career with the exception being Thurman Thomas whom teamed up with Doug Flutie in his last two years in Buffalo.
For spits and giggles let's take a glance at the QB's that Barry had: (Can you name one?)
1998 Charlie Batch (12) / Frank Reich (2) / Scott Mitchell (2)
1997 Scott Mitchell (16)
1996 Scott Mitchell (14) / Don Majkowski (2)
1995 Scott Mitchell (16)
1994 Scott Mitchell (9) / Dave Krieg (7)
1993 Rodney Peete (10) / Erik Kramer (4) / Andre Ware (2)
1992 Rodney Peete (10) / Erik Kramer (3) / Andre Ware (3)
1991 Rodney Peete (8) / Erik Kramer (8)
1990 Rodney Peete (11) / Bob Gagliano (4) / Andre Ware (1)
1989 Rodney Peete (8) / Bob Gagliano (7) / Eric Hipple (1)
Not exactly an A-list of names. Only two seasons out of ten did Sanders have the benefit of a Lions QB playing an entire 16 game season. Kinda puts his numbers and TD totals in an entirely different perspective. Also explains some of his negative yardage in that it was due to defenses knowing that Detroit was going to run. Everyone knew he was getting the ball, but you couldn't stop him; you could only hope to contain him. Barry Sanders was the greatest running back of all time.
"If I wrapped you in flypaper and stuck you in a phone booth with Barry Sanders the end result would be Barry trotting out of the phone booth unscathed while you were stuck to the wall with your jock on the floor" - Anonymous.
First of all, I never said Thurman was a top ten back of all time. I just said he was a more complete back than Sanders and I think he would have fit better with Marino. As far as Emmitt goes, there is no comparison between Emmitt and Barry when it came to getting tough yards. In fact Sanders was so bad at it they used to take him out of the game in short yardage and goal line situations. If I needed to get 1 or 2 yards on fourth down give me Emmitt every day all day. Emmitt was also a way better blocker and he was better at catching the ball out of the backfield. You can tell me all about all the hall of fame players Emmitt played with but all I know is coming off a Super Bowl championship in '92 Emmit held out the beginning of the '93 season and the Cowboys started that year 0-2. Emmitt came back for the remaining 14 games and led the league in rushing and the Cowboys won their second Super Bowl in a row. I was trying to find the Cowboys record without Emmitt in the lineup but it was not easy to find and I was too lazy too figure it out but I no there was a dramatic drop off. Emmitt would have been a much better fit with Marino. He was a steady all around grinder who didn't have the flash and glitz of Sanders but would have been the perfect compliment to Marino . Barry was enthralling to watch, but he was a one trick pony. I am not saying I wouldn't have wanted him. I just have serious doubts that Sanders would have been the difference between winning or not winning a championship.
First of all, I never said Thurman was a top ten back of all time. I just said he was a more complete back than Sanders and I think he would have fit better with Marino. As far as Emmitt goes, there is no comparison between Emmitt and Barry when it came to getting tough yards. In fact Sanders was so bad at it they use to take him out of the game in short yardage and goal line situations. If I needed to get 1 or 2 yards on fourth down give me Emmitt every day all day. Emmitt was also a way better blocker and he was better at catching the ball out of the backfield. You can tell me all about all the hall of fame players Emmitt played with but all I know is coming off a Super Bowl championship in '92 Emmit held out the beginning of the '93 season and the Cowboys started that year 0-2. Emmitt came back for the remaining 14 games and led the league in rushing and the Cowboys won their second Super Bowl in a row. I was trying to find the Cowboys record without Emmitt in the lineup but it was not easy to find and I was too lazy too figure it out but I no there was a dramatic drop off. Emmitt would have been a much better fit with Marino. He was a steady all around grinder who didn't have the flash and glitz of Sanders but would have been the perfect compliment to Marino . Barry was enthralling to watch, but he was a one trick pony. I am not saying I wouldn't have wanted him. I just have serious doubts that Sanders would have been the difference between winning or not winning a championship.
First of all, I never said Thurman was a top ten back of all time. I just said he was a more complete back than Sanders and I think he would have fit better with Marino. As far as Emmitt goes, there is no comparison between Emmitt and Barry when it came to getting tough yards. In fact Sanders was so bad at it they use to take him out of the game in short yardage and goal line situations. If I needed to get 1 or 2 yards on fourth down give me Emmitt every day all day. Emmitt was also a way better blocker and he was better at catching the ball out of the backfield. You can tell me all about all the hall of fame players Emmitt played with but all I know is coming off a Super Bowl championship in '92 Emmit held out the beginning of the '93 season and the Cowboys started that year 0-2. Emmitt came back for the remaining 14 games and led the league in rushing and the Cowboys won their second Super Bowl in a row. I was trying to find the Cowboys record without Emmitt in the lineup but it was not easy to find and I was too lazy too figure it out but I no there was a dramatic drop off. Emmitt would have been a much better fit with Marino. He was a steady all around grinder who didn't have the flash and glitz of Sanders but would have been the perfect compliment to Marino . Barry was enthralling to watch, but he was a one trick pony. I am not saying I wouldn't have wanted him. I just have serious doubts that Sanders would have been the difference between winning or not winning a championship.
You are somewhat correct about saying that you never posted that Thurman Thomas was a top 10 RB, BUT when you imply that Barry Sanders wasn't even the best RB of his era and then continue on to mention that TT was better... well, I would hope someone wouldn't have to point out the contradiction to your claim there, but here we are.
Anyways, let's address yet another erroneous claim that Barry wasn't a complete back like that of Thomas or Smith and breakdown their career receiving yards.
1) E. Smith - 37.38 rec/yr, 2.42 rec/g, and 6.2 y/rec
2) T. Thomas - 38 rec/yr, 2.64 rec/g, and 9.5 y/rec
3) B. Sanders - 35.2 rec/yr, 2.3 rec/g, and 8.3 y/rec
So where's the huge discrepancy here in Barry being an "incomplete" running back? Sanders averaged less than only 3 catches a season compared to your self-proclaimed better all-around backs. Truth is statistically speaking they were all very good receiving backs out of the backfield. But if you want to get analytical about it, you have to consider Emmitt had a HOF QB in Aikman, Thomas had a HOF QB in Kelly, there's a reality that Sanders might actually be slightly more impressive with his list of garbage QB's that he was forced to play with.
BTW, if I needed 1 to 2 yards on fourth down who would I pick?
That's easy. I'd take: LT - Mark Tuinei, LG - Nate Newton, C - Ray Donaldson, RG - Larry Allen, RT - Erik Williams and FB - Daryl Johnston.
You could stick someone's sister... (alright, maybe not Nick Mangold's)
...behind that Cowboys' line and get the first down. You do not have sound judgement and there's no way someone could take you seriously if you cannot take into consideration the superior talent that Emmitt Smith played with in his tenure with Dallas. If you were to switch Barry to Dallas and Emmit to Detroit, The Cowboy's wouldn't skip a beat with Sanders and Smith would be talked about more along the lines of a running back like Curtis Martin or Eddie George. A HOF'er, yes but Emmitt wouldn't be in the talks of the greatest of all-time. That distinction belongs to Barry Sanders and the late great Jim Brown
You are somewhat correct about saying that you never posted that Thurman Thomas was a top 10 RB, BUT when you imply that Barry Sanders wasn't even the best RB of his era and then continue on to mention that TT was better... well, I would hope someone wouldn't have to point out the contradiction to your claim there, but here we are.
Anyways, let's address yet another erroneous claim that Barry wasn't a complete back like that of Thomas or Smith and breakdown their career receiving yards.
1) E. Smith - 37.38 rec/yr, 2.42 rec/g, and 6.2 y/rec
2) T. Thomas - 38 rec/yr, 2.64 rec/g, and 9.5 y/rec
3) B. Sanders - 35.2 rec/yr, 2.3 rec/g, and 8.3 y/rec
So where's the huge discrepancy here in Barry being an "incomplete" running back? Sanders averaged less than only 3 catches a season compared to your self-proclaimed better all-around backs. Truth is statistically speaking they were all very good receiving backs out of the backfield. But if you want to get analytical about it, you have to consider Emmitt had a HOF QB in Aikman, Thomas had a HOF QB in Kelly, there's a reality that Sanders might actually be slightly more impressive with his list of garbage QB's that he was forced to play with.
BTW, if I needed 1 to 2 yards on fourth down who would I pick?
That's easy. I'd take: LT - Mark Tuinei, LG - Nate Newton, C - Ray Donaldson, RG - Larry Allen, RT - Erik Williams and FB - Daryl Johnston.
You could stick someone's sister... (alright, maybe not Nick Mangold's)
...behind that Cowboys' line and get the first down. You do not have sound judgement and there's no way someone could take you seriously if you cannot take into consideration the superior talent that Emmitt Smith played with in his tenure with Dallas. If you were to switch Barry to Dallas and Emmit to Detroit, The Cowboy's wouldn't skip a beat with Sanders and Smith would be talked about more along the lines of a running back like Curtis Martin or Eddie George. A HOF'er, yes but Emmitt wouldn't be in the talks of the greatest of all-time. That distinction belongs to Barry Sanders and the late great Jim Brown
It's really just a matter of opinion. I would prefer a back like Emmitt over a back like Sanders. You dismiss Smith's accomplishments by saying it was because he was surrounded by hall of fame talent, but I saw with my own eyes how different that team was without Emmitt in the lineup. You also can't dismiss how Emmitt's talent and presence help make his teammates hall of famers. I really believe that Sanders was a special talent, but his yards per carry was inflated because of amount of long runs he had. I am not condemning him for that, it's just that I would prefer the type of back that can consistently get you the tough yards when everyone in the stadium knows that you need to run the ball to ice the game or get a key first down. Sanders as a blocker was a joke also. That is another thing that should not be dismissed, especially if he were to have played with Marino.
Barry would have been great but Thurman Thomas might have fit us better. We passed on him twice that draft too. I remember my dad saying 'that guy is gonna torch you guys'. He was right
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