y did we draft roth? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

y did we draft roth?

Awsi Dooger said:
The 14 year old has a far better grasp of football talent, or lack thereof, than many of the blinders-on posters in this thread.

Since I've been posting here we had the Rick Spielman apologists. Next the A.J. Feeley apologists. Now that ever astute crew has switched to defending Matt Roth. Eventually, the results and the truth will be remarkably similar.

I've watched football for 30+ years, taped and evaluated hundreds of games. Last week I posted Roth looked like a 4th or 5th rounder, not a 2nd. So go ahead and rip the the 14-year-old for estimating 6th. After watching Roth on every play tonight I might be right there with him.

Matt Roth is a shockingly small DE with only one gear, no explosive strength, very few moves or agility, and decisively mediocre athletic ability for this level. You watch him and wonder where any improvement can come from. Even an aging backup QB eluded Roth with ease near the left sideline. He reminds me of the overmatched players on our '84 defense, the ones Bill Walsh was diplomatically trying not to criticize too harshly prior to the Super Bowl. Not very big, fast, strong or quick was his summation and that fits Roth.

No one is saying they knew this at the time of the draft. Roth made tons of plays at Iowa and appeared to translate to a poor man's David Pollack type in the NFL, a constant motor overcoming his lack of great talent. I was desperate to select Khalif Barnes with that pick at #46, but the Roth choice seemed fine to me. Every year guys move to the next level and stun you will much more or much less ability than it appeared in college or the combine. In Roth we identified a dud, and that will be an extreme rarity under Saban.
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Technique is something that a DE eventually will have or not have, too may people are jumping the gun. I evaluate and analyze, too. That's why I practically write essays, or leave good points. I know this is your opinion, but it's still way too early to see him as a bust. Zach Thomas was slow, small, etc, but he had the drive, instincts, and had really good technique as far as tackling, and had knack in making plays. Linebackers seem to adjust faster than DE's. You should be a sports analyst on ESPN with your 30 years of evaluating players.
 
dolfan005 said:
it's called BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE
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I'm sorry but that is such B.S. let me put it to you people this way. since all of you are in love with rivers and brees i'll use them as my example.

Lets say on draft day Aaron Rogers falls out of the first round and it's the chargers Pick should they take Rogers since he is BPA. no they should not. because given the players they have at that position it would be a waste of a pick.

I'm not saying i think Roth is going to be a bust. but at the same time i agree there was other players available that could of helped this team more than matt roth is going to.
 
godfater21 said:
I'm sorry but that is such B.S. let me put it to you people this way. since all of you are in love with rivers and brees i'll use them as my example.

Lets say on draft day Aaron Rogers falls out of the first round and it's the chargers Pick should they take Rogers since he is BPA. no they should not. because given the players they have at that position it would be a waste of a pick.

I'm not saying i think Roth is going to be a bust. but at the same time i agree there was other players available that could of helped this team more than matt roth is going to.
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Uh, Who?

looking through the list of players drafter after roth, but before Crowder (I'm sure you aren't disappointed with that pick are you?) I can only find two names that seem to fit a need, and those names are only on my radar because of how crappy our QB choices are.

Roth, Matt DE - OUr pick
Nugent, Mike K - didn't need
Thurman, Odell ILB - filled later
Johnson, Marcus OT - maybe
Bartell, Ronald CB - filled later
Collins, Nick FS - maybe
Barnes, Khalif OT - maybe
Cody, Dan DE - just drafted Roth, unless you think we should've drafted him?
Shelton, Eric RB -nope
Parrish, Roscoe WR - nope
Williams, Darrent CB - filled later
Miller, Justin CB - filled later
Murphy, Terrence WR - nope
Babineaux, Jonathan DT - maybe
Hayden, Kelvin CB -filled later
Jackson, Vincent WR - nope
McFadden, Bryant CB - filled later
McCoy, Matt OLB - filled later
Terry, Adam OT - maybe
Gore, Frank RB - nope
Atogwe, Oshiomogho FS - maybe
Frye, Charlie QB - with our current QB play, probably
Roby, Courtney Wr - nope
Walter, Andrew QB - See Frye

Okay I might have wanted a QB instead of Roth, and of the two Frye is the only one doing anything this preseason, and nither one of these guys would be expected to come in and help us this year.

Charlie Frye 36 22 162 61.1 4.5 2 1 23 3/22 78.7
Andrew Walter 24 13 131 54.2 5.5 1 2 20 2/17 49.1

So lets see, of all those players, I came up with 6 maybes and two probs.

So who would you have drafted instead of roth? Tell us who we could've drafted out of the above guys that would've come in and made an impact this year?
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The 14 year old has a far better grasp of football talent, or lack thereof, than many of the blinders-on posters in this thread.

Since I've been posting here we had the Rick Spielman apologists. Next the A.J. Feeley apologists. Now that ever astute crew has switched to defending Matt Roth. Eventually, the results and the truth will be remarkably similar.

I've watched football for 30+ years, taped and evaluated hundreds of games. Last week I posted Roth looked like a 4th or 5th rounder, not a 2nd. So go ahead and rip the the 14-year-old for estimating 6th. After watching Roth on every play tonight I might be right there with him.

Matt Roth is a shockingly small DE with only one gear, no explosive strength, very few moves or agility, and decisively mediocre athletic ability for this level. You watch him and wonder where any improvement can come from. Even an aging backup QB eluded Roth with ease near the left sideline. He reminds me of the overmatched players on our '84 defense, the ones Bill Walsh was diplomatically trying not to criticize too harshly prior to the Super Bowl. Not very big, fast, strong or quick was his summation and that fits Roth.

No one is saying they knew this at the time of the draft. Roth made tons of plays at Iowa and appeared to translate to a poor man's David Pollack type in the NFL, a constant motor overcoming his lack of great talent. I was desperate to select Khalif Barnes with that pick at #46, but the Roth choice seemed fine to me. Every year guys move to the next level and stun you will much more or much less ability than it appeared in college or the combine. In Roth we identified a dud, and that will be an extreme rarity under Saban.
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Roth was everywhere tonight. Did you even watch the game? He forced the QB out of the pocket on numerous plays. I've never seen someone say so much but at the same time say so little.
 
why now?

I didn't get to watch the game, and may be i'm totally missing the point, but why bring up this topic after tonight's game when Roth had 3-2 T-A's. Sounds like a pretty @#$# solid game to me.
 
Wildbill3 said:
Uh, Who?

looking through the list of players drafter after roth, but before Crowder (I'm sure you aren't disappointed with that pick are you?) I can only find two names that seem to fit a need, and those names are only on my radar because of how crappy our QB choices are.

Roth, Matt DE - OUr pick
Nugent, Mike K - didn't need
Thurman, Odell ILB - filled later
Johnson, Marcus OT - maybe
Bartell, Ronald CB - filled later
Collins, Nick FS - maybe
Barnes, Khalif OT - maybe
Cody, Dan DE - just drafted Roth, unless you think we should've drafted him?
Shelton, Eric RB -nope
Parrish, Roscoe WR - nope
Williams, Darrent CB - filled later
Miller, Justin CB - filled later
Murphy, Terrence WR - nope
Babineaux, Jonathan DT - maybe
Hayden, Kelvin CB -filled later
Jackson, Vincent WR - nope
McFadden, Bryant CB - filled later
McCoy, Matt OLB - filled later
Terry, Adam OT - maybe
Gore, Frank RB - nope
Atogwe, Oshiomogho FS - maybe
Frye, Charlie QB - with our current QB play, probably
Roby, Courtney Wr - nope
Walter, Andrew QB - See Frye

Okay I might have wanted a QB instead of Roth, and of the two Frye is the only one doing anything this preseason, and nither one of these guys would be expected to come in and help us this year.

Charlie Frye 36 22 162 61.1 4.5 2 1 23 3/22 78.7
Andrew Walter 24 13 131 54.2 5.5 1 2 20 2/17 49.1

So lets see, of all those players, I came up with 6 maybes and two probs.

So who would you have drafted instead of roth? Tell us who we could've drafted out of the above guys that would've come in and made an impact this year?
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I like Roths intensity. but i would have rather taken Khalif Barnes. We have a good D-line older but still good. our o-line is horrid. i know Houck is a good coach and next year is suppost to have a good tackle crop but i just feel Barnes would have helped us more than Roth will.
 
godfater21 said:
Woodley sucked.
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Woodley was Jay feidler before being jay feidler was cool. :shootself He was asked to be a caretaker judging by the stats and the knowledge that Shula ball was still running the ball back then. To say he sucked would be unfair, because he was not supposed to win games with his arm.

If I am wrong, please somebody who was actually above puberty when he played... Jump in and correct me.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/WoodDa00.htm
 
godfater21 said:
I like Roths intensity. but i would have rather taken Khalif Barnes. We have a good D-line older but still good. our o-line is horrid. i know Houck is a good coach and next year is suppost to have a good tackle crop but i just feel Barnes would have helped us more than Roth will.
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I don't see where Saban would've thought he needed to draft a tackle, he had already picked up Mcdookie (who we now know is not an answer to any question) and Mcintosh was coming back, and we already had a first round invested in Carey, not to mention that our previous "starter" was still here also in St. Clair. I don't see Barnes beating out any of these Guys this year, while I could see roth making great strides next year, possibly starting.
 
BSQX4 said:
Orton was on the board and I'm really impressed by him so far. He is better than anyone we have right now IMO.
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exactly
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The 14 year old has a far better grasp of football talent, or lack thereof, than many of the blinders-on posters in this thread.

Since I've been posting here we had the Rick Spielman apologists. Next the A.J. Feeley apologists. Now that ever astute crew has switched to defending Matt Roth. Eventually, the results and the truth will be remarkably similar.

I've watched football for 30+ years, taped and evaluated hundreds of games. Last week I posted Roth looked like a 4th or 5th rounder, not a 2nd. So go ahead and rip the the 14-year-old for estimating 6th. After watching Roth on every play tonight I might be right there with him.

Matt Roth is a shockingly small DE with only one gear, no explosive strength, very few moves or agility, and decisively mediocre athletic ability for this level. You watch him and wonder where any improvement can come from. Even an aging backup QB eluded Roth with ease near the left sideline. He reminds me of the overmatched players on our '84 defense, the ones Bill Walsh was diplomatically trying not to criticize too harshly prior to the Super Bowl. Not very big, fast, strong or quick was his summation and that fits Roth.

No one is saying they knew this at the time of the draft. Roth made tons of plays at Iowa and appeared to translate to a poor man's David Pollack type in the NFL, a constant motor overcoming his lack of great talent. I was desperate to select Khalif Barnes with that pick at #46, but the Roth choice seemed fine to me. Every year guys move to the next level and stun you will much more or much less ability than it appeared in college or the combine. In Roth we identified a dud, and that will be an extreme rarity under Saban.
Click to expand...
thank you very much
 
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